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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination 17:04 - Apr 20 with 4294 viewsHarry_Palmer

Novak Djokovic has revealed he is against mandatory vaccination and it could put his tennis career in jeopardy if he is prevented from travelling due to not agreeing to take a future Covid-19 vaccine.

It's a shame the press have to leap in with the immature 'anti-vaxxer' remarks instead of engaging in sensible debate, after all this raises an important debate around civil liberties. If the likes of Bill Gates get their way, nobody will be able to work, travel or do pretty much anything else unless they are up to date with all vaccines and eventually have a microchip or some kind of biometric id to prove it.

To my mind maintaining sovereignty of your own body and what goes into it is a fundamental human right, as are the right to work and travel. If we allow the state to mandate medical interventions in order for us to be active in society then we are going down a potentially very dark road in my view.

I am all for making a vaccine available asap for people who feel they need it but I would strongly oppose it being mandatory, after all if the vaccine works then why should anybody who takes it need to fear somebody that doesn't?

I realise Covid-19 has changed the the landscape considerably but I hope most would agree with maintaining the basic right to medical choice and health freedom. What do the good people of TWTD think?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-novak-djokovic-reveals-hes-an-anti-vaxxer
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:09 - Apr 20 with 2153 viewsfactual_blue

Well, he has a medical degree. I'm convinced.




















































(Spoiler - he doesn't have a medical degree, He does have a high degree of stupidity though. He sounds like a alt-right yank opposed to Commie Obamacare, and presumably thinks his money will get him out of any sticky medical situation).
[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 17:17]

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:11 - Apr 20 with 2132 viewsDarth_Koont

His anti-vaxxing views are probably informed by his long career of hitting a small ball with a racket. Again and again.
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 with 2130 viewsThisIsMyUsername

I've never looked into the anti-vax stuff. Why would people not want this vaccine if/when it is ready and proven to work?

Do people think there are some sort of secret ingredients in them which have mind-controlling effects or something?

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 with 2131 viewsStokieBlue

"To my mind maintaining sovereignty of your own body and what goes into it is a fundamental human right, as are the right to work and travel."

The first part of that sentence is fine. The second part is not. I am not sure someone has the right to travel and possibly infect another human being due to their own views. The disease doesn't matter, you can swap C19 for measles if you like and the same should really apply.

I would be more interested to know why you are against a C19 vaccination. I know why you are against measles vaccinations even if I disagree with you but given the form, structure and method of production of any C19 vaccination is currently unknown on what grounds are you objecting? The grounds you've previously cited for measles don't apply given the above.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 with 2123 viewsBloomBlue

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:09 - Apr 20 by factual_blue

Well, he has a medical degree. I'm convinced.




















































(Spoiler - he doesn't have a medical degree, He does have a high degree of stupidity though. He sounds like a alt-right yank opposed to Commie Obamacare, and presumably thinks his money will get him out of any sticky medical situation).
[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 17:17]


He doesn't need a medical degree, remember everyone is an expert at the moment all he has to do is post on twitter a link to some ransom scientist or professor and that makes him an expert
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:15 - Apr 20 with 2092 viewshomer_123

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 by StokieBlue

"To my mind maintaining sovereignty of your own body and what goes into it is a fundamental human right, as are the right to work and travel."

The first part of that sentence is fine. The second part is not. I am not sure someone has the right to travel and possibly infect another human being due to their own views. The disease doesn't matter, you can swap C19 for measles if you like and the same should really apply.

I would be more interested to know why you are against a C19 vaccination. I know why you are against measles vaccinations even if I disagree with you but given the form, structure and method of production of any C19 vaccination is currently unknown on what grounds are you objecting? The grounds you've previously cited for measles don't apply given the above.

SB


Reminds me of Typhoid Mary.

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:26 - Apr 20 with 2059 viewsHarry_Palmer

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:09 - Apr 20 by factual_blue

Well, he has a medical degree. I'm convinced.




















































(Spoiler - he doesn't have a medical degree, He does have a high degree of stupidity though. He sounds like a alt-right yank opposed to Commie Obamacare, and presumably thinks his money will get him out of any sticky medical situation).
[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 17:17]


You have somewhat missed the point. I am not validating his medical knowledge, it is more about his stand on having a right to choose which medication he takes while still being able to ply his trade.
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:31 - Apr 20 with 2049 viewsfactual_blue

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:26 - Apr 20 by Harry_Palmer

You have somewhat missed the point. I am not validating his medical knowledge, it is more about his stand on having a right to choose which medication he takes while still being able to ply his trade.


I was making, albeit slightly sarcastically, that his opinion is of limited value as he isn't a medical professional.

He's actually being selfish IMHO, and appears to believe he can do what he likes so long as everybody else does as they're told.

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:31 - Apr 20 with 2049 viewsHarry_Palmer

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 by ThisIsMyUsername

I've never looked into the anti-vax stuff. Why would people not want this vaccine if/when it is ready and proven to work?

Do people think there are some sort of secret ingredients in them which have mind-controlling effects or something?


No, I doubt many people think that. There are however documented cases ( albeit rare ) where people have suffered serious adverse reactions or even died as a result of a vaccine reaction.

Based on this I would suggest it is not unreasonable for people to demand the right to choice.
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:34 - Apr 20 with 2035 viewsjeera

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:26 - Apr 20 by Harry_Palmer

You have somewhat missed the point. I am not validating his medical knowledge, it is more about his stand on having a right to choose which medication he takes while still being able to ply his trade.


Because like everything else in life we do have the right to do as we please,

but not if it affects other people.

I really cannot see how this can be confusing for him.

Not a dig at you, cos as a rule I have liked many of your posts in the past, just not on this.
[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 17:37]

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:34 - Apr 20 with 2022 viewsBluesquid

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 by BloomBlue

He doesn't need a medical degree, remember everyone is an expert at the moment all he has to do is post on twitter a link to some ransom scientist or professor and that makes him an expert


Yeah all sorts of idiots claiming to be experts these days and some are extremely rich and influential - 1:14.

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:44 - Apr 20 with 1996 viewsThe_Last_Baron

Mandatory vaccinations won't work. You need people's consent. And you do not need 100% of people to consent for it to be effective within the population.

Is there anybody who honestly supports mandatory vaccinations? The state does not have the right to force you to get it, the state does not own you.

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:46 - Apr 20 with 1998 viewsGuthrum

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:44 - Apr 20 by The_Last_Baron

Mandatory vaccinations won't work. You need people's consent. And you do not need 100% of people to consent for it to be effective within the population.

Is there anybody who honestly supports mandatory vaccinations? The state does not have the right to force you to get it, the state does not own you.


That's fine as long as people who refuse to have it are then banished to some remote island for the rest of their lives.

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:46 - Apr 20 with 2004 viewsN2_Blue

I won't be queuing up for a C-19 vaccine either.

If i had underlying health issues or was deemed more a risk patient then I would but i have had flu vaccine before and been ill for two days afterwards. I then had a dose of flu 4 months later that left me in bed for a week, probably because it was a different strain to the vaccine so that was pretty pointless

There will be no guarantees with this vaccine and long term effects won't be known for years. In 20 years time when I'm in my 60's then i may reconsider having a C-19 vaccine if it has been proven to work and have no side effects or long term implications in that time.

I think Djokivic is perfectly entitled to choose as he wants whether or not you agree. This is not like smallpox. Corona virus is likely to be impossible to eradicate
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:47 - Apr 20 with 1987 viewsjeera

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:46 - Apr 20 by N2_Blue

I won't be queuing up for a C-19 vaccine either.

If i had underlying health issues or was deemed more a risk patient then I would but i have had flu vaccine before and been ill for two days afterwards. I then had a dose of flu 4 months later that left me in bed for a week, probably because it was a different strain to the vaccine so that was pretty pointless

There will be no guarantees with this vaccine and long term effects won't be known for years. In 20 years time when I'm in my 60's then i may reconsider having a C-19 vaccine if it has been proven to work and have no side effects or long term implications in that time.

I think Djokivic is perfectly entitled to choose as he wants whether or not you agree. This is not like smallpox. Corona virus is likely to be impossible to eradicate


You don't have it to only protect yourself though.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
Poll: Xmas dinner: Yorkshires or not?

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:47 - Apr 20 with 1990 viewshomer_123

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:46 - Apr 20 by Guthrum

That's fine as long as people who refuse to have it are then banished to some remote island for the rest of their lives.


Necker Island?

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:52 - Apr 20 with 1973 viewshomer_123

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:26 - Apr 20 by Harry_Palmer

You have somewhat missed the point. I am not validating his medical knowledge, it is more about his stand on having a right to choose which medication he takes while still being able to ply his trade.


Of course he has the right....but it's a two way street. Countries are well within their rights to refuse him entry based in his decisions.

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:52 - Apr 20 with 1970 viewsN2_Blue

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:47 - Apr 20 by jeera

You don't have it to only protect yourself though.


No, but that anyone that does want to protect themselves is free to get immunised.

I personally don't want to be injected with a vaccine that is going to get pushed through in a year or so when the normal process would take perhaps 5-10 years as the necessary trials etc.

I'll pass thanks unless it is made law for me to have and then reluctantly i would proceed but i'd really rather not
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:54 - Apr 20 with 1953 viewsjeera

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:52 - Apr 20 by N2_Blue

No, but that anyone that does want to protect themselves is free to get immunised.

I personally don't want to be injected with a vaccine that is going to get pushed through in a year or so when the normal process would take perhaps 5-10 years as the necessary trials etc.

I'll pass thanks unless it is made law for me to have and then reluctantly i would proceed but i'd really rather not


If everyone had the same approach there would be a problem.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
Poll: Xmas dinner: Yorkshires or not?

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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:56 - Apr 20 with 1953 viewsHarry_Palmer

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:12 - Apr 20 by StokieBlue

"To my mind maintaining sovereignty of your own body and what goes into it is a fundamental human right, as are the right to work and travel."

The first part of that sentence is fine. The second part is not. I am not sure someone has the right to travel and possibly infect another human being due to their own views. The disease doesn't matter, you can swap C19 for measles if you like and the same should really apply.

I would be more interested to know why you are against a C19 vaccination. I know why you are against measles vaccinations even if I disagree with you but given the form, structure and method of production of any C19 vaccination is currently unknown on what grounds are you objecting? The grounds you've previously cited for measles don't apply given the above.

SB


Up to this point in time everybody has had the right to work and travel while potentially being able to infect somebody else with a cold/flu etc. where do you draw the line?

I get into my car everyday and there is the risk that somebody else's reckless driving could cause me serious harm or death, that is a calculated risk we all take everyday. Would you be in favour of the State removing the right for an individual to drive their own car if we had driverless cars which guaranteed no RTA's?

I am not against a C19 vaccination per se. As I said I am all for it being made available asap to those who feel they need it. I have some reservations though about the timescale they are working to in developing this particular vaccine and the safety steps which are being skipped. (This has been acknowledged by Gates and others ). There are also other pro-vaccine scientists such as Paul Offit and Peter Hotez who have voiced their concerns over rushing to get this vaccine over the line.

My main point is one of freedom of choice though. I accept the need for a C-19 vaccine, I just hope that those who don't wish to take it are not given the ultimatum of either taking it or suffering complete social exclusion.
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:58 - Apr 20 with 1944 viewsBlueBadger

Personally, all vaccinations should be mandatory unless there's explicit exclusion criteria, such as immunosuppression - your basic inalienable rights do not include the right to place others at wholly avoidable risk.

Realistically though, I don't think any government would do that. What they could do is legislate for exclusion from public transport, elective procedures on the NHS, travel, etc, etc if you think your bodily autonomy is more valuable than that of someone who's likely to be severaly affected by contracting a highly contaigious and preventable illness.
[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:12]

Ham>Lam
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:01 - Apr 20 with 1937 viewsBlueBadger

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:44 - Apr 20 by The_Last_Baron

Mandatory vaccinations won't work. You need people's consent. And you do not need 100% of people to consent for it to be effective within the population.

Is there anybody who honestly supports mandatory vaccinations? The state does not have the right to force you to get it, the state does not own you.


Effective coverage is defined by the WHO as 90-95% coverage for true 'herd immunity' - mandatory vaccination is probably the best way to achieve that. The 'civil liberties' argument here is a bit of a spurious one, frankly as your inalienable rights do not mean that you have the right to place others at risk due to your own irresponsibility.

If you want to go down the road of 'well it's my body' that's fine. But don't bleat and whine when you're refused travel and entry to places because of it. The state won't be forcing you to exclude yourself form these activities because you're stupid enough and selfish enough to think 'well I'm alright'.

[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:10]

Ham>Lam
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:02 - Apr 20 with 1930 viewsBlueBadger

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:46 - Apr 20 by N2_Blue

I won't be queuing up for a C-19 vaccine either.

If i had underlying health issues or was deemed more a risk patient then I would but i have had flu vaccine before and been ill for two days afterwards. I then had a dose of flu 4 months later that left me in bed for a week, probably because it was a different strain to the vaccine so that was pretty pointless

There will be no guarantees with this vaccine and long term effects won't be known for years. In 20 years time when I'm in my 60's then i may reconsider having a C-19 vaccine if it has been proven to work and have no side effects or long term implications in that time.

I think Djokivic is perfectly entitled to choose as he wants whether or not you agree. This is not like smallpox. Corona virus is likely to be impossible to eradicate


It's not you that's at risk, it's the most vulnerable in society. And no vaccine is 100% guaranteed(they'll offer you considerably better odds though).

Ham>Lam
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:04 - Apr 20 with 1906 viewsBlueBadger

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:52 - Apr 20 by N2_Blue

No, but that anyone that does want to protect themselves is free to get immunised.

I personally don't want to be injected with a vaccine that is going to get pushed through in a year or so when the normal process would take perhaps 5-10 years as the necessary trials etc.

I'll pass thanks unless it is made law for me to have and then reluctantly i would proceed but i'd really rather not


But you'll be cool with being refused travel and/or entry into various places, as happen in Australia presently with unvaccinated children?

Ham>Lam
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Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 18:05 - Apr 20 with 1903 viewsN2_Blue

Novak Djokovic against mandatory vaccination on 17:54 - Apr 20 by jeera

If everyone had the same approach there would be a problem.


If everyone has the same approach then we'd have to ask ourselves why.

To be honest we really need to know a lot more about natural immunity to this, whether there are different strains etc and herd immunity will work.

But in the absence of not having this info yet I think anyone has the right to say they are unsure about having any C-19 vaccination when available.

Someone said well then be prepared to not be allowed to cross borders, well Djokovic has already alluded to that and said he is prepared to accept that and that it would be the end of his career. I love travelling and I would have to seriously weigh up the two but i would be in no rush to have such a new and un-trialled vaccination that may be as useless as the influenza one in some seasons as its all a bit Russian roulette with regards to strains/seasons. As i say too many unknowns presently, but he is totally entitled to have that opinion and i totally understand where he is coming from
[Post edited 20 Apr 2020 18:08]
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