| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. 12:54 - Apr 26 with 9573 views | Terry_Nutkins |
Speaks for itself. Even if you couldn't see it clearly yourself, you would have to be a special kind of self important, pig headed and unreasonable sort not to take that information and admit ok, He's probably a lot better than i realised.Pretty much all the players and managers he has worked with rate him as prem quality....and yet....we even had someone a couple of days ago put him in there worst 11 of Evans era. Stupid and disrespectful.
Hopefully when he does hang up his boots he'll get a good send off. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:56 - Apr 26 with 4558 views | itfcjoe |
Same with Chambers too, nearly everyone (maybe everyone) has put him in their team - whilst some fans think Chambers and Skuse are the problems here. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:15 - Apr 26 with 4506 views | Kieran_Knows |
Should give the under 23’s job to him and Chambers when they finish. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:24 - Apr 26 with 4479 views | BlueBadger |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:56 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
Same with Chambers too, nearly everyone (maybe everyone) has put him in their team - whilst some fans think Chambers and Skuse are the problems here. |
They are the problem for some mainly for the fact that Mick signed one of them and made the other captain. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:28 - Apr 26 with 4469 views | Mullet |
I still chuckle at the critics who came up with this "Hurst has reinvented him" stuff based on the fact our midfield were so toot Skuse lost his rag and went haring after the ball in a game. Suddenly his passing had become "expansive", he was quicker and had been "limited by Mick", you name it.
I'm always baffled by people who don't see it, even if simply not appreciating him is weird enough in and of itself. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:36 - Apr 26 with 4448 views | Chrisd |
When Skuse plays well he's good, but too many times this season it's shown father time is catching up with him, he's looking slow. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:43 - Apr 26 with 4426 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:56 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
Same with Chambers too, nearly everyone (maybe everyone) has put him in their team - whilst some fans think Chambers and Skuse are the problems here. |
Sadly, there's better CBs out there in L1 IMO, certainly at the top end of the table. Chambers has done a very good job for us and is terrific in the way he speaks off the pitch, there's no doubting that. However, we lack that organiser at the back and a commanding defender that's going to dominate in the air. As each season passes it's going to get more challenging, he's not getting any younger. Lets be honest, we get really exposed and out-muscled by the more direct sides defensively. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 13:51]
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:52 - Apr 26 with 4407 views | itfcjoe |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:43 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
Sadly, there's better CBs out there in L1 IMO, certainly at the top end of the table. Chambers has done a very good job for us and is terrific in the way he speaks off the pitch, there's no doubting that. However, we lack that organiser at the back and a commanding defender that's going to dominate in the air. As each season passes it's going to get more challenging, he's not getting any younger. Lets be honest, we get really exposed and out-muscled by the more direct sides defensively. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 13:51]
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The biggest issue defensively (and bear in mind we have a good defensive record and the other end of the pitch is the problem) is that we have full backs who can't defend.
We've got the 5th best defense in the league and only Coventry in the top 6 have a better one that us.
Even over the last 9 games, where we have picked up a measly 4 points and are the worst side in the league, we've only conceded 12 goals. Oxford have conceded 11 in their last 9 games and have picked up 19 points.
That's with a defence that has had Gwion Edwards and Luke Garbutt as full backs in the main - when we played Kenlock at the back in a 442 we were minutes away from an all time clean sheet record.
I just don't see what more we should be expecting off him, and our defence in general - we simply don't score goals and without that you can't win - in those 9 games we've scored 6 goals, 4 of which were against Burton.
If you take out the 4 we scored v Burton, and the 4 we conceded v Peterborough we've scored 2 goals in 8 games and conceded 8. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:08 - Apr 26 with 4380 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:52 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
The biggest issue defensively (and bear in mind we have a good defensive record and the other end of the pitch is the problem) is that we have full backs who can't defend.
We've got the 5th best defense in the league and only Coventry in the top 6 have a better one that us.
Even over the last 9 games, where we have picked up a measly 4 points and are the worst side in the league, we've only conceded 12 goals. Oxford have conceded 11 in their last 9 games and have picked up 19 points.
That's with a defence that has had Gwion Edwards and Luke Garbutt as full backs in the main - when we played Kenlock at the back in a 442 we were minutes away from an all time clean sheet record.
I just don't see what more we should be expecting off him, and our defence in general - we simply don't score goals and without that you can't win - in those 9 games we've scored 6 goals, 4 of which were against Burton.
If you take out the 4 we scored v Burton, and the 4 we conceded v Peterborough we've scored 2 goals in 8 games and conceded 8. |
We've also got CBs that can't head a ball and get outmuscled!
Woolfenden is the future (if he stays), but he needs the help and support around him to help him develop, he's learning on the job. I look at Rotherham or Coventry's CBs or Beevers at Peterborough and we'd be a better side defensively with any of those CB's playing alongside Woolfenden, not 5th best in this league. If we got promoted this season (I appreciate this is a hypothetical question), would Chambers still be able to cut it the Championship? The answer is no, he's been exposed a few times this season. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 14:09]
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:12 - Apr 26 with 4365 views | Mullet |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:08 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
We've also got CBs that can't head a ball and get outmuscled!
Woolfenden is the future (if he stays), but he needs the help and support around him to help him develop, he's learning on the job. I look at Rotherham or Coventry's CBs or Beevers at Peterborough and we'd be a better side defensively with any of those CB's playing alongside Woolfenden, not 5th best in this league. If we got promoted this season (I appreciate this is a hypothetical question), would Chambers still be able to cut it the Championship? The answer is no, he's been exposed a few times this season. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 14:09]
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But no one is going to put Chambers in the team of the year for the division. It's clear he's in his last contract in football and isn't going to be a good option for 40+ games a season. But even at his peak he was definitely under rated and even abused unfairly too.
It's a sign of how unbalanced our squad is that we can't get him and Woolfenden functioning, that we had a limited "cast off" as the third man and got in Earl at the end only to try and play him as a wingback. The whole squad needs reshaping unfortunately. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:34 - Apr 26 with 4332 views | itfcjoe |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:08 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
We've also got CBs that can't head a ball and get outmuscled!
Woolfenden is the future (if he stays), but he needs the help and support around him to help him develop, he's learning on the job. I look at Rotherham or Coventry's CBs or Beevers at Peterborough and we'd be a better side defensively with any of those CB's playing alongside Woolfenden, not 5th best in this league. If we got promoted this season (I appreciate this is a hypothetical question), would Chambers still be able to cut it the Championship? The answer is no, he's been exposed a few times this season. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 14:09]
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Woolfenden is unlikely to be the future as he'll go, but if we can go into the start of next season with Woolfie and Chambers at the back we'll be in a very good position.
Every centre back loses headers, every centre back gets outmuscled at times. Of Centre backs who have played a minimum of 20 games only Ihiekwe from Rotherham and Raggett of Pompey win more headers a game than Chambers (6.3). Chambers loses 3, they lose 2.7 and 2.8 respectively.
Every stat points to Chambers being so far from one of the big problems this season - and that is before you take into account the leadership qualities he also brings.
Very few in our squad could cut it in the Championship, Chambers most likely being one of them now - but I don't understand why he is singled out by some, when he is the least of our problemsn. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:40 - Apr 26 with 4321 views | Herbivore |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:34 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
Woolfenden is unlikely to be the future as he'll go, but if we can go into the start of next season with Woolfie and Chambers at the back we'll be in a very good position.
Every centre back loses headers, every centre back gets outmuscled at times. Of Centre backs who have played a minimum of 20 games only Ihiekwe from Rotherham and Raggett of Pompey win more headers a game than Chambers (6.3). Chambers loses 3, they lose 2.7 and 2.8 respectively.
Every stat points to Chambers being so far from one of the big problems this season - and that is before you take into account the leadership qualities he also brings.
Very few in our squad could cut it in the Championship, Chambers most likely being one of them now - but I don't understand why he is singled out by some, when he is the least of our problemsn. |
Even many of Woolfie's shortcomings - and he's had a few ropey months - are pinned on Chambers, which I find quite amusing. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:06 - Apr 26 with 4292 views | PJH |
But how can you judge a players value to the team by playing with them or coaching them?
To really be able to judge a players ability you need to listen to match commentary on the radio. |  | | |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:09 - Apr 26 with 4279 views | Radlett_blue |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:36 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
When Skuse plays well he's good, but too many times this season it's shown father time is catching up with him, he's looking slow. |
Skuse is 34 now & almost impossible for him to be as good as he was, especially as his game is built around anticipating & intercepting. He was a solid if uninspiring 2nd tier defensive midfield player, but anyone who suggested he was "Premier League quality" has their head in the clouds. He looks more of a luxury in home games where we need to move the ball quickly & play positively.
Chambers was also a solid 2nd tier centre back, but also 34 & now a little slower & more cumbersome.
Both of these guys had been solid pros, typifying the workmanlike nature of Mick's Town, but as they have declined, the team around them has done the same & hence they seem to epitomise the last few sorry years. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:10 - Apr 26 with 4272 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:34 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
Woolfenden is unlikely to be the future as he'll go, but if we can go into the start of next season with Woolfie and Chambers at the back we'll be in a very good position.
Every centre back loses headers, every centre back gets outmuscled at times. Of Centre backs who have played a minimum of 20 games only Ihiekwe from Rotherham and Raggett of Pompey win more headers a game than Chambers (6.3). Chambers loses 3, they lose 2.7 and 2.8 respectively.
Every stat points to Chambers being so far from one of the big problems this season - and that is before you take into account the leadership qualities he also brings.
Very few in our squad could cut it in the Championship, Chambers most likely being one of them now - but I don't understand why he is singled out by some, when he is the least of our problemsn. |
Unfortunately,for us we seem to lose quite a fair share of any physical battles especially against imposing centre forwards. Other sides deal with the high ball far better than what we do, like your stats suggest, if Chambers is losing 3 and others are losing less than that. From those lost headers how many resort to goals? Like I said, I’m not digging Chambers out I like him as a character and he’s done a very decent job for us over the years, I’m looking more long term. We should be trying to get better and younger in if possible otherwise this level is where we are going to end up long term. Getting the defensive foundation right is huge in going forwards. Even games we’ve looked comfortable in, we look capable of conceding when put under the slightest pressure, which ultimately has cost us games this season. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:15 - Apr 26 with 4258 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:12 - Apr 26 by Mullet |
But no one is going to put Chambers in the team of the year for the division. It's clear he's in his last contract in football and isn't going to be a good option for 40+ games a season. But even at his peak he was definitely under rated and even abused unfairly too.
It's a sign of how unbalanced our squad is that we can't get him and Woolfenden functioning, that we had a limited "cast off" as the third man and got in Earl at the end only to try and play him as a wingback. The whole squad needs reshaping unfortunately. |
He certainly been a good signing for us, but we need to be looking at fazing him out and Wilson certainly isn’t the answer. A good imposing CB to deal with the high balls would allow Woolfenden to sweep up and concentrate on playing the ball out from the back. We’re too easy defensively to break down, the slightest bit of pressure we fold. I agree, we need more round pegs in round holes and players taking responsibility for doing their jobs. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 15:17]
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:17 - Apr 26 with 4254 views | Ftnfwest |
I think that’s about right and speaks volumes for the quality of sides we’ve had in the last 8-10 years or so |  | | |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:20 - Apr 26 with 4236 views | Herbivore |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:10 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
Unfortunately,for us we seem to lose quite a fair share of any physical battles especially against imposing centre forwards. Other sides deal with the high ball far better than what we do, like your stats suggest, if Chambers is losing 3 and others are losing less than that. From those lost headers how many resort to goals? Like I said, I’m not digging Chambers out I like him as a character and he’s done a very decent job for us over the years, I’m looking more long term. We should be trying to get better and younger in if possible otherwise this level is where we are going to end up long term. Getting the defensive foundation right is huge in going forwards. Even games we’ve looked comfortable in, we look capable of conceding when put under the slightest pressure, which ultimately has cost us games this season. |
That's not a very good summary of what our main issues are and have been this season. We don't create or score anywhere near enough. Defensively we've been perfectly decent. If you think those stats prove your point about Chambers rather than disprove it then if I facepalm as hard as I'd like to I might break my nose. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:37 - Apr 26 with 4208 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:09 - Apr 26 by Radlett_blue |
Skuse is 34 now & almost impossible for him to be as good as he was, especially as his game is built around anticipating & intercepting. He was a solid if uninspiring 2nd tier defensive midfield player, but anyone who suggested he was "Premier League quality" has their head in the clouds. He looks more of a luxury in home games where we need to move the ball quickly & play positively.
Chambers was also a solid 2nd tier centre back, but also 34 & now a little slower & more cumbersome.
Both of these guys had been solid pros, typifying the workmanlike nature of Mick's Town, but as they have declined, the team around them has done the same & hence they seem to epitomise the last few sorry years. |
As you say they have both declined but we had been told by some that their experience would be vital for us in League One. Now because it's turning out differently and we don't benefit much from their experience people use their age as an 'excuse' for not performing well.
Both of them (as the rest of that lamentable team last season as they downed the tools according to Bialkowski) ought to have been accountable for the relegation. But hey there was an euphoria among some when Chambers got a new deal last year !
As you also say both epitomise the last few years and are integral part of everything that went wrong on the pitch but will still remain free of criticism for some people. Off the pitch though they're as excellent as Lambert. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 15:38]
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:41 - Apr 26 with 4191 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:20 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
That's not a very good summary of what our main issues are and have been this season. We don't create or score anywhere near enough. Defensively we've been perfectly decent. If you think those stats prove your point about Chambers rather than disprove it then if I facepalm as hard as I'd like to I might break my nose. |
Stats are misleading, I bet our possession % is one of the best in L1 that’s because we pass the ball around in areas of the pitch which don’t hurt sides and the opposition don’t pressurise us. I prefer to use my eyes when making a judgement. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:46 - Apr 26 with 4182 views | itfcjoe |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:10 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
Unfortunately,for us we seem to lose quite a fair share of any physical battles especially against imposing centre forwards. Other sides deal with the high ball far better than what we do, like your stats suggest, if Chambers is losing 3 and others are losing less than that. From those lost headers how many resort to goals? Like I said, I’m not digging Chambers out I like him as a character and he’s done a very decent job for us over the years, I’m looking more long term. We should be trying to get better and younger in if possible otherwise this level is where we are going to end up long term. Getting the defensive foundation right is huge in going forwards. Even games we’ve looked comfortable in, we look capable of conceding when put under the slightest pressure, which ultimately has cost us games this season. |
But you only watch Ipswich so pick up on it more - if you watched Peterborough every week and saw Beevers getting done for pace often then you wouldn't hold him up as some great defender.
If Chambers is losing 3 headers and they are losing 2.7 a game it means over the copurse of this season he's lost about 10 more headers than them.
In every area of the team we want to get younger and better, Chambers included - but when we have Nsiala and Wilson in reserve we should be thankful to have him.
You still haven't really addressed the fact we don't create chances or score goals, that is what is killing us - if the defenders look nervy I can't blame them knowing that if we concede one goal we likely won't win - it's enormous pressure. We've scored more than one goal in 5 of our last 22 league games (half a season), and one of those games was the 3-5 defeat at Lincoln.
Focus on the issue, and that is scoring goals | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:29 - Apr 26 with 4118 views | itfcjoe |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:37 - Apr 26 by Mach_foreignBlue |
As you say they have both declined but we had been told by some that their experience would be vital for us in League One. Now because it's turning out differently and we don't benefit much from their experience people use their age as an 'excuse' for not performing well.
Both of them (as the rest of that lamentable team last season as they downed the tools according to Bialkowski) ought to have been accountable for the relegation. But hey there was an euphoria among some when Chambers got a new deal last year !
As you also say both epitomise the last few years and are integral part of everything that went wrong on the pitch but will still remain free of criticism for some people. Off the pitch though they're as excellent as Lambert. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 15:38]
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And yet neither of them are close to the problem this year, the fact we can't score goals for love nor money.
Our good run at the start of the season involved a load of 1-0 wins even.
I was seeing some analysis of defence and attack, and the guy who does it focuses on 0s and 1s. Rather than total goals scored or conceded.....
Goals scored - 26 times in 36 games we've scored 0 or 1
Goals conceded - 28 times in 36 games we've conceded 0 or 1
So in 77% of games we only conced 1 goal or less, but in only 22% of games we score more than once | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:36 - Apr 26 with 4106 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:46 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
But you only watch Ipswich so pick up on it more - if you watched Peterborough every week and saw Beevers getting done for pace often then you wouldn't hold him up as some great defender.
If Chambers is losing 3 headers and they are losing 2.7 a game it means over the copurse of this season he's lost about 10 more headers than them.
In every area of the team we want to get younger and better, Chambers included - but when we have Nsiala and Wilson in reserve we should be thankful to have him.
You still haven't really addressed the fact we don't create chances or score goals, that is what is killing us - if the defenders look nervy I can't blame them knowing that if we concede one goal we likely won't win - it's enormous pressure. We've scored more than one goal in 5 of our last 22 league games (half a season), and one of those games was the 3-5 defeat at Lincoln.
Focus on the issue, and that is scoring goals |
My discussion point was never about why we don’t score enough goals. Nsiala and Wilson are both examples why we should be concerned defensively. The good sides are the ones that can see out the 1-0 wins and that’s another example why we aren’t a top side in this league . When it’s games that really count against Rotherham, Portsmouth, Coventry, Peterborough or Sunderland etc. we can’t keep them out and that’s the difference. Get it right at the back first and build from there. It’s been proven that’s the blueprint of building a decent side in any standard of football. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 16:41]
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:48 - Apr 26 with 4083 views | Mullet |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:37 - Apr 26 by Mach_foreignBlue |
As you say they have both declined but we had been told by some that their experience would be vital for us in League One. Now because it's turning out differently and we don't benefit much from their experience people use their age as an 'excuse' for not performing well.
Both of them (as the rest of that lamentable team last season as they downed the tools according to Bialkowski) ought to have been accountable for the relegation. But hey there was an euphoria among some when Chambers got a new deal last year !
As you also say both epitomise the last few years and are integral part of everything that went wrong on the pitch but will still remain free of criticism for some people. Off the pitch though they're as excellent as Lambert. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 15:38]
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How bad would we have been without these two? We’d be closer to relegated than anything else given how badly Lambert sets up teams and chops them about.
You’re completely the wrong way around here, they’re the only reason we had any kind of fightback to get Hurst out and stem the awful damage he’d done on and off the pitch despite their evident decline as they’ve aged. Every manager has kept them in and around the team because of their quality.
The fact so many managers and players recognise this and say it so often without being prompted or needing to surely tells you you’re wrong here? | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 17:00 - Apr 26 with 4060 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:36 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
When Skuse plays well he's good, but too many times this season it's shown father time is catching up with him, he's looking slow. |
That's a totally different argument. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 17:23 - Apr 26 with 4031 views | itfcjoe |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:36 - Apr 26 by Chrisd |
My discussion point was never about why we don’t score enough goals. Nsiala and Wilson are both examples why we should be concerned defensively. The good sides are the ones that can see out the 1-0 wins and that’s another example why we aren’t a top side in this league . When it’s games that really count against Rotherham, Portsmouth, Coventry, Peterborough or Sunderland etc. we can’t keep them out and that’s the difference. Get it right at the back first and build from there. It’s been proven that’s the blueprint of building a decent side in any standard of football. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 16:41]
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You can’t grind out a 1-0 win if you don’t score, we’ve won 6 or 7 games 1-0 this season as it is - there won’t be many teams that have done that.
You keep talking about building a decent defence, the reality is we have one that is good enough currently - it’s the 5 best in the league. In 28 games out of 36 we’ve only conceded at most 1 goal.
Out of all the teams in the top 6, only Coventry have conceded less than us. Every team in there has scored more than us. It seems strange to keep going on about the defence, our defence has been good enough to go up. | |
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