| A really difficult scenario 10:26 - Apr 29 with 890 views | Guthrum |
You have supported your football club since childhood, father and grandfather before you. Its history and achievements embedded in your memory. It's part of your psyche, the venue for meeting up with a lot of your friends, even part of the very fabric of your town/city.
However, you desperately want a change of ownership, following a long series of poor seasons, including relegations.
But now it is being taken over by a foreign ruler with a highly dubious record on human rights and international influence/meddling. Things of which you probably disapprove yourself. Now there is a host of people, mainly outsiders, calling upon you to boycott the club if this sale goes through. Some of them with very strong arguments, such as the fiancee of a murdered activist.
None of this is directly the club's fault, or has anything to do with football, per se.
What do you do? How do you feel? Do you compartmentalise it and ignore the morality? Do you abandon a core element of your life (just as welcome change is coming) on a matter of high principle?
Very tricky dilemma. |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 10:29 - Apr 29 with 857 views | Keno |
Marcus may have his faults but I'm not sure he is that bad!!
Just think we could end up someone really awful like Mike Ashley or a drunken media whore like Delia |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 10:41 - Apr 29 with 830 views | homer_123 |
Isn't the simply reality that anyone who has accumulated that level of wealth is, in all likelihood, going to have some elements about him or her that means that ethically, fans are going to have an issue with them.
In short, you rarely get that rich without being a complete arse or have something about you and your situation which makes it problematic.
Let's take Evans and to a lesser degree Magic Vegas.
You could argue and allege that Evans is a ticket tout and a rum business man with very shady dealings and that Magic Vegas profts from those with gambling addictions.
Now, clearly, those issues are at a level where the average fans will tolerate them. Would we tolerate a cigarette company sponsoring the football club (I appreciate they can't) or (as happened in Colombia) a drug cartel taking ownership of the club?
It's all to do with the 'level'...no more or less.
Really, very very few football owners or sponsors would pass any half decent 'fit to own' test. |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 10:42 - Apr 29 with 829 views | Swansea_Blue |
I suppose you could part-compartmentalise without having to ignore the morality altogether. I wouldn't be happy with the new owners, but I'd probably carry on supporting the club. Fans are in it for the long haul while owners come and go. We have no control over ownership changes (or very little control; sometimes fans can convince an owner to bail out, but normally only when clubs are in dire straits). The revenue from broadcasting dwarves gate receipts and there's always another fan to take your place if the club does well, so in a way the owner wins whether you boycott or not.
It doesn't mean the fans have to like it of course. Fans can still make their feelings known in constructive ways via the press or fan groups or letters to the club, etc. (rather than hurling abuse from the terraces). You never know, maybe the fans could be a force for good by getting the owners to reflect on their history (highly unlikely, but you never know!). |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 10:55 - Apr 29 with 799 views | BrianTablet |
I think it helps hugely when the football club you love (and all clubs) has slowly become more and distanced from all the reasons that your grandfather, father, etc held it in such high esteem.
It isn't the relegations or the heartache that have led to this, but the commercialisation of everything to do with your club and football in general. The game is so far removed from what is was in the past, that it's sterile, greed-ridden nature makes it far easier to walk away.
You will always feel the tie and the sadness that you are not being loyal, as you see something you cared for slip away, but once you step outside and observe the hype from an external place, the sheer ridiculousness of the situation will strike you.
It's a sport. It's a game. It's about winning AND losing. It's about promotion AND relegation. It's about being uncomfortable, or cold or sad, or angry. It's about mud and refereeing errors and player mistakes; red cards and wondergoals from donkeys, dodgy offsides and witty comments from Row Z.
It's not about overloud music forcing an 'atmosphere' or sterile sitting or perfect pitches or diving players or playing for freekicks. It's not about the Murdoch family or replica shirts, or multimillionaire water carriers who don't give a rat's arse about who they are playing for.
You can't put a price on the intangible, ethereal beauty of it all, or the illogical love and attachments we have to football clubs. The traditions were all hard-earned and took time. You can commercialise it and flog it off, but there's only so much you can squeeze out of it before you need to replenish those traditions.
And you can - and will - lose this by making it a purely commercial product. The consumer isn't loyal. Businesses aren't loyal.
It WILL eat itself. [Post edited 29 Apr 2020 11:13]
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| A really difficult scenario on 11:00 - Apr 29 with 776 views | Fixed_It |
| A really difficult scenario on 10:55 - Apr 29 by BrianTablet |
I think it helps hugely when the football club you love (and all clubs) has slowly become more and distanced from all the reasons that your grandfather, father, etc held it in such high esteem.
It isn't the relegations or the heartache that have led to this, but the commercialisation of everything to do with your club and football in general. The game is so far removed from what is was in the past, that it's sterile, greed-ridden nature makes it far easier to walk away.
You will always feel the tie and the sadness that you are not being loyal, as you see something you cared for slip away, but once you step outside and observe the hype from an external place, the sheer ridiculousness of the situation will strike you.
It's a sport. It's a game. It's about winning AND losing. It's about promotion AND relegation. It's about being uncomfortable, or cold or sad, or angry. It's about mud and refereeing errors and player mistakes; red cards and wondergoals from donkeys, dodgy offsides and witty comments from Row Z.
It's not about overloud music forcing an 'atmosphere' or sterile sitting or perfect pitches or diving players or playing for freekicks. It's not about the Murdoch family or replica shirts, or multimillionaire water carriers who don't give a rat's arse about who they are playing for.
You can't put a price on the intangible, ethereal beauty of it all, or the illogical love and attachments we have to football clubs. The traditions were all hard-earned and took time. You can commercialise it and flog it off, but there's only so much you can squeeze out of it before you need to replenish those traditions.
And you can - and will - lose this by making it a purely commercial product. The consumer isn't loyal. Businesses aren't loyal.
It WILL eat itself. [Post edited 29 Apr 2020 11:13]
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Beautifully put. |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 11:02 - Apr 29 with 765 views | ITFC_Forever |
A bit of a "support the team, not the regime" angle I suppose.
I would argue to anyone wanting to criticise that I was a fan and involved with the club for decades before the new owners - the new owners aren't the reason I support the club in question. |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 11:24 - Apr 29 with 732 views | Guthrum |
| A really difficult scenario on 10:41 - Apr 29 by homer_123 |
Isn't the simply reality that anyone who has accumulated that level of wealth is, in all likelihood, going to have some elements about him or her that means that ethically, fans are going to have an issue with them.
In short, you rarely get that rich without being a complete arse or have something about you and your situation which makes it problematic.
Let's take Evans and to a lesser degree Magic Vegas.
You could argue and allege that Evans is a ticket tout and a rum business man with very shady dealings and that Magic Vegas profts from those with gambling addictions.
Now, clearly, those issues are at a level where the average fans will tolerate them. Would we tolerate a cigarette company sponsoring the football club (I appreciate they can't) or (as happened in Colombia) a drug cartel taking ownership of the club?
It's all to do with the 'level'...no more or less.
Really, very very few football owners or sponsors would pass any half decent 'fit to own' test. |
True to an extent. However, I'd say there's quite a significant difference in level between a few possibly dodgy business deals and human rights abuses, murdering opposition activists and trashing neighbouring countries by fighting proxy wars there. | |
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| A really difficult scenario on 11:27 - Apr 29 with 722 views | Mullet |
You spend nothing in the club shop. Tickets only.
You use social media, fan groups whatever means to voice your concerns. You and the club were there before them, and you want it to remain afterwards.
It's like never voting again because we ended up with Johnson otherwise. |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 11:32 - Apr 29 with 714 views | homer_123 |
| A really difficult scenario on 11:24 - Apr 29 by Guthrum |
True to an extent. However, I'd say there's quite a significant difference in level between a few possibly dodgy business deals and human rights abuses, murdering opposition activists and trashing neighbouring countries by fighting proxy wars there. |
And that's my point.
'It's all to do with the 'level'...no more or less.' | |
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| A really difficult scenario on 11:58 - Apr 29 with 692 views | GeoffSentence |
| A really difficult scenario on 10:41 - Apr 29 by homer_123 |
Isn't the simply reality that anyone who has accumulated that level of wealth is, in all likelihood, going to have some elements about him or her that means that ethically, fans are going to have an issue with them.
In short, you rarely get that rich without being a complete arse or have something about you and your situation which makes it problematic.
Let's take Evans and to a lesser degree Magic Vegas.
You could argue and allege that Evans is a ticket tout and a rum business man with very shady dealings and that Magic Vegas profts from those with gambling addictions.
Now, clearly, those issues are at a level where the average fans will tolerate them. Would we tolerate a cigarette company sponsoring the football club (I appreciate they can't) or (as happened in Colombia) a drug cartel taking ownership of the club?
It's all to do with the 'level'...no more or less.
Really, very very few football owners or sponsors would pass any half decent 'fit to own' test. |
If only Bill Gates was a football fan, he seems like a decent chap and is filthy rich, not so many of them around though. |  |
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| A really difficult scenario on 12:08 - Apr 29 with 669 views | ITFC_Forever |
| A really difficult scenario on 10:55 - Apr 29 by BrianTablet |
I think it helps hugely when the football club you love (and all clubs) has slowly become more and distanced from all the reasons that your grandfather, father, etc held it in such high esteem.
It isn't the relegations or the heartache that have led to this, but the commercialisation of everything to do with your club and football in general. The game is so far removed from what is was in the past, that it's sterile, greed-ridden nature makes it far easier to walk away.
You will always feel the tie and the sadness that you are not being loyal, as you see something you cared for slip away, but once you step outside and observe the hype from an external place, the sheer ridiculousness of the situation will strike you.
It's a sport. It's a game. It's about winning AND losing. It's about promotion AND relegation. It's about being uncomfortable, or cold or sad, or angry. It's about mud and refereeing errors and player mistakes; red cards and wondergoals from donkeys, dodgy offsides and witty comments from Row Z.
It's not about overloud music forcing an 'atmosphere' or sterile sitting or perfect pitches or diving players or playing for freekicks. It's not about the Murdoch family or replica shirts, or multimillionaire water carriers who don't give a rat's arse about who they are playing for.
You can't put a price on the intangible, ethereal beauty of it all, or the illogical love and attachments we have to football clubs. The traditions were all hard-earned and took time. You can commercialise it and flog it off, but there's only so much you can squeeze out of it before you need to replenish those traditions.
And you can - and will - lose this by making it a purely commercial product. The consumer isn't loyal. Businesses aren't loyal.
It WILL eat itself. [Post edited 29 Apr 2020 11:13]
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Your last line is 100% correct - the bubble will burst, and I think the current situation with Coronavirus (as awful as it is etc), has one big upside for football fans in that it looks like being the pin to prick the balloon.
Many, many clubs are going to suffer as a result of this current situation - I hope they all go bust and we get to start again, with players on sustainable wages and the leach owners and agents gone for good, or at least the bad ones.
In true ITFC style, I'm sure there will be a way in which we somehow miss the boat, but at least it will be an improvement for the wider game. | |
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| A really difficult scenario on 12:21 - Apr 29 with 653 views | Guthrum |
| A really difficult scenario on 12:08 - Apr 29 by ITFC_Forever |
Your last line is 100% correct - the bubble will burst, and I think the current situation with Coronavirus (as awful as it is etc), has one big upside for football fans in that it looks like being the pin to prick the balloon.
Many, many clubs are going to suffer as a result of this current situation - I hope they all go bust and we get to start again, with players on sustainable wages and the leach owners and agents gone for good, or at least the bad ones.
In true ITFC style, I'm sure there will be a way in which we somehow miss the boat, but at least it will be an improvement for the wider game. |
It says something that it's taken a jolt this substantial to even raise the possibility that the bubble may finally burst. | |
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| A really difficult scenario on 12:36 - Apr 29 with 627 views | Chrisd |
| A really difficult scenario on 12:21 - Apr 29 by Guthrum |
It says something that it's taken a jolt this substantial to even raise the possibility that the bubble may finally burst. |
Just shows how precarious football is financially, it's taken a matter of weeks. Although I appreciate that this pandemic is unique, so many clubs it appears are on the brink. |  |
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