| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning 13:09 - May 7 with 10438 views | Tommyparker |
Conservatives 50%
Labour 30% |  | | |  |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:03 - May 9 with 916 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 17:47 - May 9 by SpruceMoose |
They won't with that smug attitude... |
It won’t though, the reality is that even if the UK reduced its footprint to zero the damage which is being done elsewhere far outstrips anything happening in the UK. I suppose a Green UK government could try and push change elsewhere but then we’re repeatedly told on the subject of Brexit that the UK is actually a tiny nation with minimal influence so that seems somewhat unlikely
On a side note, in these uneasy times it’s quite comforting seeing you slowly slipping back into your old ways |  |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:04 - May 9 with 912 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 18:02 - May 9 by monytowbray |
Well exactly. So why are we still having a race to the bottom? |
That makes zero sense in the context of your previous post | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:06 - May 9 with 911 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 14:27 - May 9 by GunnsAirkick |
The tie colour thing is a very simplistic view of things. The notion that a more centrist Labour is exactly the same as the Conservatives is utter nonsense. Labour under Blair introduced a lot of Socialist policies (two prominent ones are the Minimum Wage and SureStart). If he hadn't gone mad and backed Bush in Iraq (which I can never forgive him for), I wouldn't be surprised if we still had a Labour Government now.
Sorry for the arsey tone of my post, it just irks me when some people who joined Labour in 2015 to vote for Corbyn are very intolerant of anyone not deemed 'left' enough (or you're a 'Blairite' or 'Neoliberal'). Labour has always been a broad church whether Corbyn supporters like it or not and that model has been the only one that has won elections (even the Atlee Governement of 1945 was a broad mixture of people from the left and right of the party).
I think you're going to be very disappointed in your political life if you're not a bit more pragmatic. I've seen some of your views on Capitalism and fully agree with a lot of it. This country will never vote to get rid of Capitalism though, we are an extremely consumer driven nation (even the often cited 'Nordic Model' countries use Mixed-Mode economies). It is a grossly unfair system though, but if you believe a Starmer led Labour Government would be no different to tackling inequality compared to the current shower I think you're a bit deluded.
Put it this way, Labour could get in and actually make some changes for a fairer society, as they always have done to varying degrees. The Green Party might fit in more with your personal political views (fair enough), but they have no chance of making any meaningful changes to the lives of the worst off in this country. |
It's a question of degrees when we need wholescale change in many areas.
For example, I think 3.5 million children living in poverty is better than 4 million. But I expect a political alternative that considers children living in poverty as unacceptable and their number one priority to fix.
Of course, talking a good game without sacrificing anything probably buys a lot more comfortable, middle class votes. |  |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:20 - May 9 with 903 views | giant_stow |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:06 - May 9 by Darth_Koont |
It's a question of degrees when we need wholescale change in many areas.
For example, I think 3.5 million children living in poverty is better than 4 million. But I expect a political alternative that considers children living in poverty as unacceptable and their number one priority to fix.
Of course, talking a good game without sacrificing anything probably buys a lot more comfortable, middle class votes. |
... and it also buys more votes from less well off people with more to lose than the average corbynite.
Win win. |  |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:57 - May 9 with 876 views | jeera |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 17:53 - May 9 by sparks |
Just for the record- barristers are self employed and gather in together to share some facilities etc in "chambers" - they aren't partners.
Sorry for the pedantry. |
I didn't know that.
I've learned something new.
Another day worth living. |  |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 21:07 - May 9 with 847 views | monytowbray |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:04 - May 9 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
That makes zero sense in the context of your previous post |
What part doesn’t make sense? |  |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 09:15 - May 10 with 772 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:20 - May 9 by giant_stow |
... and it also buys more votes from less well off people with more to lose than the average corbynite.
Win win. |
You'll have to unravel that one for me.
I get the sense that you think fighting child poverty is some cheap political manoeuvre but perhaps you can spell that out more clearly. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 09:27 - May 10 with 774 views | Churchman |
I don’t believe that. If there was another election later this year or early next, as there should be, I think the tories would rightly be thrown out. I don’t think the are electable, given their shambolic response to this disaster which would be fully exposed. How could anyone expect this shower of incompetents to deal with Brexit sensibly or the recovery come to that?
When even the Greeks are laughing at this country’s pathetic efforts, you know it’s bad. If the government had any conscience regarding its failures and the cost in lives and indeed the economy, it’d call for a government of national unity now to try and get a grip of this shambles with the promise of an election after it. But they won’t of course. |  | | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:35 - May 10 with 740 views | giant_stow |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 09:15 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
You'll have to unravel that one for me.
I get the sense that you think fighting child poverty is some cheap political manoeuvre but perhaps you can spell that out more clearly. |
thats a pretty cheap accusation. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:39 - May 10 with 728 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:35 - May 10 by giant_stow |
thats a pretty cheap accusation. |
I'm having to fill in the gaps because I can't understand what you're specifically arguing against. Or why.
This *seems* to be what you're saying. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:48 - May 10 with 720 views | giant_stow |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:39 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
I'm having to fill in the gaps because I can't understand what you're specifically arguing against. Or why.
This *seems* to be what you're saying. |
I'm saying that you have more chance of helping children in poverty if you're actually in power.
I'm then connecting that people with more to lose (people with less financial security, or as Clapham helpfully added, people with more dependants) being less keen to vote on Corbyn's big gamble - they wanted a safer, more middle of the road option.
THats why a more middle of the road labour would have got in and had the opportunity to reducechild poverty. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:49 - May 10 with 719 views | NewcyBlue |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 19:06 - May 9 by Darth_Koont |
It's a question of degrees when we need wholescale change in many areas.
For example, I think 3.5 million children living in poverty is better than 4 million. But I expect a political alternative that considers children living in poverty as unacceptable and their number one priority to fix.
Of course, talking a good game without sacrificing anything probably buys a lot more comfortable, middle class votes. |
“ I expect a political alternative that considers children living in poverty as unacceptable and their number one priority to fix.”
I think that’s the issue there. They can’t just focus on one area. Although the electorate have been swayed by one big issue, Brexit. Which is ultimately the undoing of Corbyn.
The issue is, that unless labour take a more balanced approach and get into power, they can’t bring in their policies which will do some good.
There are voters out there who will have been put off by one or two aspects of labours manifesto under Corbyn and voted elsewhere.
Look at the Labour heartlands in the North that turned their backs on Labour. |  |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:57 - May 10 with 710 views | NotSure |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 09:27 - May 10 by Churchman |
I don’t believe that. If there was another election later this year or early next, as there should be, I think the tories would rightly be thrown out. I don’t think the are electable, given their shambolic response to this disaster which would be fully exposed. How could anyone expect this shower of incompetents to deal with Brexit sensibly or the recovery come to that?
When even the Greeks are laughing at this country’s pathetic efforts, you know it’s bad. If the government had any conscience regarding its failures and the cost in lives and indeed the economy, it’d call for a government of national unity now to try and get a grip of this shambles with the promise of an election after it. But they won’t of course. |
You are right no to believe these polls.
Most people don't care about politics during times like these and will only change their minds once everything is over.
However your 2nd paragraph is laughable.
You either saved lives (temporarily until they died later) or ruined the economy. You can't blame the government for both.
And who are these Greeks laughing at us?
Greece started their full lockdown on March 23rd. About the same time as ours. |  | | |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:59 - May 10 with 703 views | NewcyBlue |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:57 - May 10 by NotSure |
You are right no to believe these polls.
Most people don't care about politics during times like these and will only change their minds once everything is over.
However your 2nd paragraph is laughable.
You either saved lives (temporarily until they died later) or ruined the economy. You can't blame the government for both.
And who are these Greeks laughing at us?
Greece started their full lockdown on March 23rd. About the same time as ours. |
Greece closed schools, cafes, malls, restaurants and bars on March 13.
Went into full lockdown on 23rd March.
With significantly fewer deaths. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:02 - May 10 with 699 views | NotSure |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:59 - May 10 by NewcyBlue |
Greece closed schools, cafes, malls, restaurants and bars on March 13.
Went into full lockdown on 23rd March.
With significantly fewer deaths. |
So you prove my point.
The last major football match here was March 11th and the last sporting event Cheltenham on March 13th.
You cannot compare death rates across countries. It's ridiculous. | | | |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:06 - May 10 with 692 views | NewcyBlue |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:02 - May 10 by NotSure |
So you prove my point.
The last major football match here was March 11th and the last sporting event Cheltenham on March 13th.
You cannot compare death rates across countries. It's ridiculous. |
Greece closed their schools before they even had one fatality.
They hadn’t had one death, and they were shutting up.
Our first deaths were around when I came home from the Far East, first week of February, weren’t they? | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:08 - May 10 with 688 views | giant_stow |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:02 - May 10 by NotSure |
So you prove my point.
The last major football match here was March 11th and the last sporting event Cheltenham on March 13th.
You cannot compare death rates across countries. It's ridiculous. |
I'd have thought its ridiculous not to compare, but hey ho, just an opinion. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:15 - May 10 with 673 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:49 - May 10 by NewcyBlue |
“ I expect a political alternative that considers children living in poverty as unacceptable and their number one priority to fix.”
I think that’s the issue there. They can’t just focus on one area. Although the electorate have been swayed by one big issue, Brexit. Which is ultimately the undoing of Corbyn.
The issue is, that unless labour take a more balanced approach and get into power, they can’t bring in their policies which will do some good.
There are voters out there who will have been put off by one or two aspects of labours manifesto under Corbyn and voted elsewhere.
Look at the Labour heartlands in the North that turned their backs on Labour. |
I think you're taking that a bit literally. It's not just about focusing on one area but making that metric the top priority.
Indeed to greatly reduce child poverty there are a whole host of social, economic and educational measures needed from raising the minimum wage, overhauling Universal Credit, boosting the economy in underfunded regions and communities, re-training programmes, funding local authorities to provide adequate social care in the communities etc.
But that metric should be front and centre when we're talking about the sort of society we want to live in and what we need from a government. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:24 - May 10 with 659 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 10:48 - May 10 by giant_stow |
I'm saying that you have more chance of helping children in poverty if you're actually in power.
I'm then connecting that people with more to lose (people with less financial security, or as Clapham helpfully added, people with more dependants) being less keen to vote on Corbyn's big gamble - they wanted a safer, more middle of the road option.
THats why a more middle of the road labour would have got in and had the opportunity to reducechild poverty. |
You have more chance of helping children in poverty if you're actually committed to it.
The problem with seeking power without that commitment is that it's then job done. Blair would never admit to it but Brown at least had the balls and the integrity to say that they should have done much more to address the structural inequality in the UK. And that's after 13 years in power and surfing an upswing in the global economy.
It was the commitment to changing deeper social and economic inequalities that was lacking. Not to mention setting off on a fairly neoliberal and laissez-faire track to start with.
Of course, Blair and New Labour were better than the alternative and did a lot of good things. But they didn't reverse a slide towards more individualistic and libertarian values. In fact, they cemented these values and paved the way for the Tories to keep going when they got into power. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:25 - May 10 with 660 views | NewcyBlue |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:15 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
I think you're taking that a bit literally. It's not just about focusing on one area but making that metric the top priority.
Indeed to greatly reduce child poverty there are a whole host of social, economic and educational measures needed from raising the minimum wage, overhauling Universal Credit, boosting the economy in underfunded regions and communities, re-training programmes, funding local authorities to provide adequate social care in the communities etc.
But that metric should be front and centre when we're talking about the sort of society we want to live in and what we need from a government. |
“ Indeed to greatly reduce child poverty there are a whole host of social, economic and educational measures needed from raising the minimum wage, overhauling Universal Credit, boosting the economy in underfunded regions and communities, re-training programmes, funding local authorities to provide adequate social care in the communities etc”
I couldn’t agree more.
The MP here has done an outstanding job. Hence why I voted for her again.
Let’s hope under the leadership of Starmer, the Labour Party unites, and can bring some value to politics. I like Starmer, I think he’s going to do well. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:27 - May 10 with 655 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:25 - May 10 by NewcyBlue |
“ Indeed to greatly reduce child poverty there are a whole host of social, economic and educational measures needed from raising the minimum wage, overhauling Universal Credit, boosting the economy in underfunded regions and communities, re-training programmes, funding local authorities to provide adequate social care in the communities etc”
I couldn’t agree more.
The MP here has done an outstanding job. Hence why I voted for her again.
Let’s hope under the leadership of Starmer, the Labour Party unites, and can bring some value to politics. I like Starmer, I think he’s going to do well. |
Agreed. I hope so too. | |
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 12:48 - May 10 with 618 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 11:24 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
You have more chance of helping children in poverty if you're actually committed to it.
The problem with seeking power without that commitment is that it's then job done. Blair would never admit to it but Brown at least had the balls and the integrity to say that they should have done much more to address the structural inequality in the UK. And that's after 13 years in power and surfing an upswing in the global economy.
It was the commitment to changing deeper social and economic inequalities that was lacking. Not to mention setting off on a fairly neoliberal and laissez-faire track to start with.
Of course, Blair and New Labour were better than the alternative and did a lot of good things. But they didn't reverse a slide towards more individualistic and libertarian values. In fact, they cemented these values and paved the way for the Tories to keep going when they got into power. |
No, you have more chance of helping children in poverty if you’re actually in a position to help children in poverty
See the huge drop in child poverty rate from 1997 to 2010, versus the number of children in poverty helped by Corbyn’s Labour that lost 2 elections, for example...
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 13:04 - May 10 with 591 views | Darth_Koont |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 12:48 - May 10 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
No, you have more chance of helping children in poverty if you’re actually in a position to help children in poverty
See the huge drop in child poverty rate from 1997 to 2010, versus the number of children in poverty helped by Corbyn’s Labour that lost 2 elections, for example...
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But that was tied to the upswing in the global and UK economy rather than actually focusing on removing the underlying causes of inequality.
We're exactly where we started.
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| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 13:22 - May 10 with 570 views | giant_stow |
| YouGov latest opinion poll this morning on 13:04 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
But that was tied to the upswing in the global and UK economy rather than actually focusing on removing the underlying causes of inequality.
We're exactly where we started.
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Your graph doesn't back up the point in your first para - there's been a global upswing since 2009 / 10 but that hasn't stopped child poverty increasing since then. | |
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