| But we will still clap for you! on 11:34 - May 16 with 1046 views | monytowbray |
B U T C O R B Y N . |  |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 11:36 - May 16 with 1044 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 11:34 - May 16 by monytowbray |
B U T C O R B Y N . |
Even Badger's at it now. Easier than taking ownership, I suppose. |  |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 11:50 - May 16 with 986 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 09:11 - May 16 by Herbivore |
Sadly the racists, the bigots, the selfish, and the just plain blinkered and brainwashed make up enough of the country that we keep ending up with an awful Tory government. Those in the centre that sat on their hands and enabled this need to take a look at themselves too, but they won't. |
The problem is that they didn't just sit on their hands - they were active in trying to carve out their own niche and look after themselves by attacking others who were in opposition more than the actual government.
It was a massive own goal that didn't get the Tories out, stop Brexit or indeed help prepare for any future electoral success. And without Coronavirus, no-one would even be listening to them now. [Post edited 16 May 2020 11:50]
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| But we will still clap for you! on 11:53 - May 16 with 975 views | NewcyBlue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 11:34 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
Gmpf.
You don't really know what you're talking about, do you? |
You don’t have to get so grumpy when people have an opinion other than one that is the same as yours you know?
For instance, I don’t think Corbyn was the answer. I think his tenure as Labour leader has now put the Labour Party at a disadvantage.
The Labour heartlands turning their backs on Labour at the last election did so for a reason.
The red Tory term is just the stuff of petty adults, who are unable to see balance. The intolerant left. |  |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 11:57 - May 16 with 968 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 11:53 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
You don’t have to get so grumpy when people have an opinion other than one that is the same as yours you know?
For instance, I don’t think Corbyn was the answer. I think his tenure as Labour leader has now put the Labour Party at a disadvantage.
The Labour heartlands turning their backs on Labour at the last election did so for a reason.
The red Tory term is just the stuff of petty adults, who are unable to see balance. The intolerant left. |
BB has just gone an ill-informed rant. I wasn't grumpy, I was more amused by it.
You also don't have to disagree with my opinion. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 14:23 - May 16 with 841 views | monytowbray |
| But we will still clap for you! on 10:38 - May 16 by BlueBadger |
Oh absolutely. That's why I'm disgusted wit the self-indulgence the left has allowed itself to wallow in for the last 5 years. |
Would have won the election if the “New” lot had of allowed it. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 14:30 - May 16 with 839 views | SpruceMoose |
| But we will still clap for you! on 10:12 - May 16 by BrianTablet |
She's an absolute Tory.
This is what they love. |
Exactly. It's not a bug, it's a feature. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 15:11 - May 16 with 827 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 14:23 - May 16 by monytowbray |
Would have won the election if the “New” lot had of allowed it. |
BB doesn't want to accept that his and others' self-indulgence by not backing the only alternative (and attacking it for the most part) has brought about this government.
But according to the centrists, it's the leftists that are the dreamers who need to understand reality ...  | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 15:28 - May 16 with 809 views | NewcyBlue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:11 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
BB doesn't want to accept that his and others' self-indulgence by not backing the only alternative (and attacking it for the most part) has brought about this government.
But according to the centrists, it's the leftists that are the dreamers who need to understand reality ... |
Despite voting labour, I didn’t think Corbyn was the answer.
You’ll find many of us voted labour but didn’t think much of Corbyn.
Perhaps you need to think about why labour voters put their votes elsewhere rather than being the intolerant left all the time. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 15:32 - May 16 with 806 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:28 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
Despite voting labour, I didn’t think Corbyn was the answer.
You’ll find many of us voted labour but didn’t think much of Corbyn.
Perhaps you need to think about why labour voters put their votes elsewhere rather than being the intolerant left all the time. |
I have thought about it. And posted at length.
We got the government we deserved because we were too caught up in narratives as opposed to facts. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 15:45 - May 16 with 764 views | NewcyBlue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:32 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
I have thought about it. And posted at length.
We got the government we deserved because we were too caught up in narratives as opposed to facts. |
I disagree, the decent people of the U.K. do not deserve this government.
You’re throwing blame around everywhere, you need to face reality here. Corbyn couldn’t lead. He couldn’t stop people in his own party from scheming against him.
He engaged some of the voters, but not enough.
The big issue in the labour northern heartlands was Brexit. His stance on it was unclear. They voted how they voted due to this.
It’s really quite simple.
Perhaps there needs to be a more socialist party, and then the Labour Party. That way, there’s a place for the likes of Corbyn. It seems the broad church that was the Labour Party is struggling at the moment.
Blaming labour voters for not backing Corbyn is pretty daft though. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 15:52 - May 16 with 749 views | giant_stow |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:45 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
I disagree, the decent people of the U.K. do not deserve this government.
You’re throwing blame around everywhere, you need to face reality here. Corbyn couldn’t lead. He couldn’t stop people in his own party from scheming against him.
He engaged some of the voters, but not enough.
The big issue in the labour northern heartlands was Brexit. His stance on it was unclear. They voted how they voted due to this.
It’s really quite simple.
Perhaps there needs to be a more socialist party, and then the Labour Party. That way, there’s a place for the likes of Corbyn. It seems the broad church that was the Labour Party is struggling at the moment.
Blaming labour voters for not backing Corbyn is pretty daft though. |
Dont be upset with darth, mr. I dont think he's actually able to process different opinions to his own. |  |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 15:59 - May 16 with 743 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:45 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
I disagree, the decent people of the U.K. do not deserve this government.
You’re throwing blame around everywhere, you need to face reality here. Corbyn couldn’t lead. He couldn’t stop people in his own party from scheming against him.
He engaged some of the voters, but not enough.
The big issue in the labour northern heartlands was Brexit. His stance on it was unclear. They voted how they voted due to this.
It’s really quite simple.
Perhaps there needs to be a more socialist party, and then the Labour Party. That way, there’s a place for the likes of Corbyn. It seems the broad church that was the Labour Party is struggling at the moment.
Blaming labour voters for not backing Corbyn is pretty daft though. |
It really is quite simple if you pick and choose what you want to believe.
Brexit was undoubtedly a factor. Should we have had another vote on a deal? Undoubtedly. So why was that painted as unclear? I struggle to take anyone seriously who actually believes the Labour policy was difficult to understand. But it was being attacked by people who wanted to "Get Brexit done" or wanted to Revoke. How are either of those clear beyond a superficial message?
But a major issue was Corbyn himself after being negatively portrayed for so long. None of it stood up to much scrutiny but there was no scrutiny. You seem to have internalised it so much that you're even blaming Corbyn for not stopping people scheming against him!
So, I can certainly blame people who in a two-horse race between Labour and the Tories decided to hobble the Labour horse and then complain about the Tory horse winning. They fecked it up for all of us. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:02 - May 16 with 739 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:52 - May 16 by giant_stow |
Dont be upset with darth, mr. I dont think he's actually able to process different opinions to his own. |
Not stupid, non-factual ones, no. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:04 - May 16 with 734 views | m14_blue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 14:23 - May 16 by monytowbray |
Would have won the election if the “New” lot had of allowed it. |
This is the most delusional post I’ve seen on here in years, it’s a complete rewriting of history.
And for the record, I’ve only ever voted for Labour once and that was in the last election. |  | | |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:13 - May 16 with 719 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:04 - May 16 by m14_blue |
This is the most delusional post I’ve seen on here in years, it’s a complete rewriting of history.
And for the record, I’ve only ever voted for Labour once and that was in the last election. |
It's a fair comment on the 2017 election. 2019 was more about Brexit so that's debatable - although the same ongoing internal campaign against Corbyn undoubtedly worsened Labour's chances. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:22 - May 16 with 705 views | m14_blue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:13 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
It's a fair comment on the 2017 election. 2019 was more about Brexit so that's debatable - although the same ongoing internal campaign against Corbyn undoubtedly worsened Labour's chances. |
I just don’t buy it.
Corbyn was rubbish. I voted for him because I thought a well meaning but useless PM was better than an immoral, habitually dishonest, narcissistic and useless one.
If you really think the red wall crumbling was in any way linked to the internal machinations of the Labour Party then I make you miles off.
Fair point that 2017 was closer but I’m still extremely sceptical about the influence of the Labour malcontents. [Post edited 16 May 2020 16:36]
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:36 - May 16 with 695 views | NewcyBlue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 15:59 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
It really is quite simple if you pick and choose what you want to believe.
Brexit was undoubtedly a factor. Should we have had another vote on a deal? Undoubtedly. So why was that painted as unclear? I struggle to take anyone seriously who actually believes the Labour policy was difficult to understand. But it was being attacked by people who wanted to "Get Brexit done" or wanted to Revoke. How are either of those clear beyond a superficial message?
But a major issue was Corbyn himself after being negatively portrayed for so long. None of it stood up to much scrutiny but there was no scrutiny. You seem to have internalised it so much that you're even blaming Corbyn for not stopping people scheming against him!
So, I can certainly blame people who in a two-horse race between Labour and the Tories decided to hobble the Labour horse and then complain about the Tory horse winning. They fecked it up for all of us. |
As a leader of personnel in an unforgiving environment, I would be a sh!tty leader if I couldn’t get them to buy in to my mentality and beliefs.
I don’t recall Corbyn ever clearly stating his position on Brexit. The last couple of elections have clearly been about Brexit.
The fact he never learnt from the 2017 election shows that he was naive to think nationalising everything in sight would sway the electorate.
Get Brexit Done was clear for labour voters up north who felt aggrieved about various things related, often stoked up by UKIP and the like.
Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party, he then needed to show he could lead. He needed to show that he understood the issues facing the voters.
If you manage to lose an election to BoJo, you know something has gone horribly wrong somewhere.
Starmer recently refused to back an extension to the negotiations for Brexit. It’s clear. He wants the government to make good on their promises, and will hold them to account. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:36 - May 16 with 694 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:22 - May 16 by m14_blue |
I just don’t buy it.
Corbyn was rubbish. I voted for him because I thought a well meaning but useless PM was better than an immoral, habitually dishonest, narcissistic and useless one.
If you really think the red wall crumbling was in any way linked to the internal machinations of the Labour Party then I make you miles off.
Fair point that 2017 was closer but I’m still extremely sceptical about the influence of the Labour malcontents. [Post edited 16 May 2020 16:36]
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The red wall crumbling was undoubtedly down to Brexit. So we had that whole "Take Back Control", xenophobic narrative playing out while we also had another narrative playing out that Corbyn was the problem - as an antisemite, terrorist supporter, traitor and generally incompetent according to his vocal enemies in Labour, let alone those who were sabotaging election campaigns and antisemitism complaints behind the scenes.
Pretty much a perfect storm but let's be clear that these are narrative-driven issues and not particularly rooted in evidence. And our media did a crap job on both scores - either cheerleading or providing false balance.
But somewhere along the line we also have to take responsibility ourselves for looking the other way when most of this has all been going on in plain sight. And we really have little to complain about when it ends up with the current shower in charge. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:44 - May 16 with 680 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:36 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
As a leader of personnel in an unforgiving environment, I would be a sh!tty leader if I couldn’t get them to buy in to my mentality and beliefs.
I don’t recall Corbyn ever clearly stating his position on Brexit. The last couple of elections have clearly been about Brexit.
The fact he never learnt from the 2017 election shows that he was naive to think nationalising everything in sight would sway the electorate.
Get Brexit Done was clear for labour voters up north who felt aggrieved about various things related, often stoked up by UKIP and the like.
Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party, he then needed to show he could lead. He needed to show that he understood the issues facing the voters.
If you manage to lose an election to BoJo, you know something has gone horribly wrong somewhere.
Starmer recently refused to back an extension to the negotiations for Brexit. It’s clear. He wants the government to make good on their promises, and will hold them to account. |
I can't change your opinion. I can only ask you to look again at the factual basis for what you think. Particularly these:
"I don’t recall Corbyn ever clearly stating his position on Brexit."
"He needed to show that he understood the issues facing the voters."
FWIW I never said Corbyn was the best leader, and I disagreed with his historic view on the EU, but he was certainly nothing like as bad or as dangerous as he was portrayed. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:48 - May 16 with 671 views | NewcyBlue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:44 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
I can't change your opinion. I can only ask you to look again at the factual basis for what you think. Particularly these:
"I don’t recall Corbyn ever clearly stating his position on Brexit."
"He needed to show that he understood the issues facing the voters."
FWIW I never said Corbyn was the best leader, and I disagreed with his historic view on the EU, but he was certainly nothing like as bad or as dangerous as he was portrayed. |
He was just a bit too naive.
I’ve said plenty of times that he wasn’t the answer, but hopefully a catalyst for change.
I think Starmer is a better prospect for the Labour Party. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:50 - May 16 with 668 views | m14_blue |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:36 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
The red wall crumbling was undoubtedly down to Brexit. So we had that whole "Take Back Control", xenophobic narrative playing out while we also had another narrative playing out that Corbyn was the problem - as an antisemite, terrorist supporter, traitor and generally incompetent according to his vocal enemies in Labour, let alone those who were sabotaging election campaigns and antisemitism complaints behind the scenes.
Pretty much a perfect storm but let's be clear that these are narrative-driven issues and not particularly rooted in evidence. And our media did a crap job on both scores - either cheerleading or providing false balance.
But somewhere along the line we also have to take responsibility ourselves for looking the other way when most of this has all been going on in plain sight. And we really have little to complain about when it ends up with the current shower in charge. |
Brexit was a huge part of it but I don’t view Corbyn as a helpless victim in the face of it.
He lost my trust when he disappeared during the referendum, something which was even more galling when he showed just what an effective campaigner he could be the following year. Has he mobilised and galvanised his support in the same way during Brexit maybe it would never have happened? Brexit is a Tory mess, don’t get me wrong, but Corbyn - possibly deliberately - waved it through.
And their position for the 2019 election was an absolute mess. I know you’ll try to defend the indefensible but any position that has leave voters thinking you want to remain and remain voters thinking you want to leave can only be disastrous. | | | |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:53 - May 16 with 663 views | Darth_Koont |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:48 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
He was just a bit too naive.
I’ve said plenty of times that he wasn’t the answer, but hopefully a catalyst for change.
I think Starmer is a better prospect for the Labour Party. |
Undoubtedly, if a better prospect is about managing the Labour right and the newspapers. And if that gets him into government and kicks out the current clowns then that's better than the alternative.
But I still want the political debate to be centred around the most disadvantaged and vulnerable in society rather than being channelled by powerful and vested interests and lazily accepted by those who see a small net gain for themselves. That's where Starmer needs to prove himself and show there is an alternative to the current dogma. | |
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| But we will still clap for you! on 16:58 - May 16 with 658 views | jeera |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:36 - May 16 by NewcyBlue |
As a leader of personnel in an unforgiving environment, I would be a sh!tty leader if I couldn’t get them to buy in to my mentality and beliefs.
I don’t recall Corbyn ever clearly stating his position on Brexit. The last couple of elections have clearly been about Brexit.
The fact he never learnt from the 2017 election shows that he was naive to think nationalising everything in sight would sway the electorate.
Get Brexit Done was clear for labour voters up north who felt aggrieved about various things related, often stoked up by UKIP and the like.
Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party, he then needed to show he could lead. He needed to show that he understood the issues facing the voters.
If you manage to lose an election to BoJo, you know something has gone horribly wrong somewhere.
Starmer recently refused to back an extension to the negotiations for Brexit. It’s clear. He wants the government to make good on their promises, and will hold them to account. |
Corbyn has always been anti EU.
He 'sat on the fence' and said he'd consider another referendum because he recognised that's what many of his potential voters wanted.
It was one of the things I actually felt he did right, inasmuch as he put his personal views aside in favour of another vote.
That there was a press hatchet job cannot be denied nor should some of shadier tactics used against Labour be overlooked. We only go back a mere few days to see how they are more than willing to go back down that route to smear a Labour leader - win at all and any cost is the approach of the current Tory mindset.
I liked some of his ideals, as do others, including this present government, as they were willing to adopt one pretty quickly with the consideration of nationalising* some means of public transport.
He would not be my personal choice and my feelings were closest to m14s when it came to voting. But then I was also voting Labour more than Corbyn personally tbf.
People didn't have to like or dislike Corbyn to acknowledge he wasn't permitted to go about business on an even playing field.
*Edit: sigh. [Post edited 16 May 2020 20:26]
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| But we will still clap for you! on 17:01 - May 16 with 648 views | itfcjoe |
| But we will still clap for you! on 16:50 - May 16 by m14_blue |
Brexit was a huge part of it but I don’t view Corbyn as a helpless victim in the face of it.
He lost my trust when he disappeared during the referendum, something which was even more galling when he showed just what an effective campaigner he could be the following year. Has he mobilised and galvanised his support in the same way during Brexit maybe it would never have happened? Brexit is a Tory mess, don’t get me wrong, but Corbyn - possibly deliberately - waved it through.
And their position for the 2019 election was an absolute mess. I know you’ll try to defend the indefensible but any position that has leave voters thinking you want to remain and remain voters thinking you want to leave can only be disastrous. |
I don't think the position was a mess in 2019, it just took so long to get to it that they had already lost all trust |  |
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