Forum | But we will still clap for you! by NewcyBlue

But we will still clap for you! on 17:05 - May 16 with 1199 views

m14_blue

But we will still clap for you! on 17:01 - May 16 by itfcjoe
I don't think the position was a mess in 2019, it just took so long to get to it that they had already lost all trust

I think both.

Someone wanting to be PM shouldn’t be neutral on the biggest political issue facing the country, they’re not the Queen or the BBC.

Anyway, I feel I’ve diverted from a thread about what a horrendous person Patel is.

She’s the worst of a very, very bad bunch.

But we will still clap for you! on 17:07 - May 16 with 1197 views

But we will still clap for you! on 16:50 - May 16 by m14_blue

Brexit was a huge part of it but I don’t view Corbyn as a helpless victim in the face of it.

He lost my trust when he disappeared during the referendum, something which was even more galling when he showed just what an effective campaigner he could be the following year. Has he mobilised and galvanised his support in the same way during Brexit maybe it would never have happened? Brexit is a Tory mess, don’t get me wrong, but Corbyn - possibly deliberately - waved it through.

And their position for the 2019 election was an absolute mess. I know you’ll try to defend the indefensible but any position that has leave voters thinking you want to remain and remain voters thinking you want to leave can only be disastrous.

How long did he go off on holiday for? Swinson said two weeks but that was patently false. It was 5 days off, 3 weeks before the referendum.

It's that sort of narrative that needs to be countered. Certainly wasn't him "disappearing during the referendum".

Don't get me wrong, Corbyn was flawed on the EU IMO. But he campaigned to Remain even though the Remain campaign was run by others and his rating of 7 out of 10 for the EU got closer to the type of discussion we should have been having. We've been dealing with the binary, black/white nonsense ever since.

In 2019, that continued binary approach in the public debate meant neither the Brexiteers or the hard-core Remainers wanted to listen. Yes, it was a mess for Corbyn but a mess for all of us that a practical way out was ignored.

[Post edited 16 May 2020 17:07]

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:12 - May 16 with 1180 views

But we will still clap for you! on 16:58 - May 16 by jeera

Corbyn has always been anti EU.

He 'sat on the fence' and said he'd consider another referendum because he recognised that's what many of his potential voters wanted.

It was one of the things I actually felt he did right, inasmuch as he put his personal views aside in favour of another vote.

That there was a press hatchet job cannot be denied nor should some of shadier tactics used against Labour be overlooked. We only go back a mere few days to see how they are more than willing to go back down that route to smear a Labour leader - win at all and any cost is the approach of the current Tory mindset.

I liked some of his ideals, as do others, including this present government, as they were willing to adopt one pretty quickly with the consideration of nationalising* some means of public transport.

He would not be my personal choice and my feelings were closest to m14s when it came to voting. But then I was also voting Labour more than Corbyn personally tbf.

People didn't have to like or dislike Corbyn to acknowledge he wasn't permitted to go about business on an even playing field.

*Edit: sigh.

[Post edited 16 May 2020 20:26]

You’re absolutely right.

He was anti-EU. He did say he would consider another referendum. He said he would remain neutral in any second referendum.

Frankly, when voting labour, I voted just because of how good my labour MP has been for the constituency.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:14 - May 16 with 1174 views

But we will still clap for you! on 16:58 - May 16 by jeera

[Post edited 16 May 2020 20:26]

Good post. All very fair and reasonable.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:16 - May 16 with 1173 views

How we have gone from Patel being a waste of oxygen to Corbyn, I really don’t know.

I still maintain that the racists, the rich, the selfish, the uncaring, those Tory voters are to blame. It must give them such angst to have Patel saying the things they say.

She is a despicable specimen of a human being.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:16 - May 16 with 1166 views

GlasgowBlue

But we will still clap for you! on 16:36 - May 16 by Darth_Koont

The red wall crumbling was undoubtedly down to Brexit. So we had that whole "Take Back Control", xenophobic narrative playing out while we also had another narrative playing out that Corbyn was the problem - as an antisemite, terrorist supporter, traitor and generally incompetent according to his vocal enemies in Labour, let alone those who were sabotaging election campaigns and antisemitism complaints behind the scenes.

Pretty much a perfect storm but let's be clear that these are narrative-driven issues and not particularly rooted in evidence. And our media did a crap job on both scores - either cheerleading or providing false balance.

But somewhere along the line we also have to take responsibility ourselves for looking the other way when most of this has all been going on in plain sight. And we really have little to complain about when it ends up with the current shower in charge.

From the Labour supporting New Staesman:

"If you don’t want the press to write you are a terrorist sympathiser, don’t lay a wreath at the grave of a terrorist. If you don’t want the press to write you are a friend of Hamas or Hezbollah, don’t call them your friends. If you don’t want the press to write you associate with the IRA, don’t associate with the IRA. If you don’t want the press to doubt your patriotism, don’t give Russia the benefit of the doubt over the Salisbury poisonings or take money from Iranian state media. If you want the press to highlight your aversion to antisemitism, don’t share a platform with known anti-Semites and defend antisemitic murals".

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/labour-leadership-race/2020/03/labours-mes

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:19 - May 16 with 1166 views

monytowbray

But we will still clap for you! on 17:16 - May 16 by GlasgowBlue

Amazing you still dig in with these angles whilst removing all wider context. It’s becoming an ever increasing failure on your behalf lately.

Trust the science.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:22 - May 16 with 1159 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:16 - May 16 by GlasgowBlue

Smearers gonna smear.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:25 - May 16 with 1153 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:16 - May 16 by NewcyBlue
How we have gone from Patel being a waste of oxygen to Corbyn, I really don’t know. I still maintain that the racists, the rich, the selfish, the uncaring, those Tory voters are to blame. It must give them such angst to have Patel saying the things they say. She is a despicable specimen of a human being.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
- Edmund Burke

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:39 - May 16 with 1125 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:25 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” - Edmund Burke

You came onto a thread about the vile Patel and cried about Corbyn.

Just saying.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:44 - May 16 with 1117 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:39 - May 16 by NewcyBlue
You came onto a thread about the vile Patel and cried about Corbyn. Just saying.

No, that was Badger. I just responded.

Anyway, back to the point. We did nothing to stop Patel that's why we've got her.

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:47 - May 16 with 1106 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:44 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
No, that was Badger. I just responded. Anyway, back to the point. We did nothing to stop Patel that's why we've got her.

“We did nothing to stop Patel”

What could you or I have done? Do you live in or near her constituency? Did you go out canvassing at all for the Labour Party?

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But we will still clap for you! on 17:52 - May 16 with 1098 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:47 - May 16 by NewcyBlue
“We did nothing to stop Patel” What could you or I have done? Do you live in or near her constituency? Did you go out canvassing at all for the Labour Party?

I'm not a member of the Labour party.

But I certainly championed them here and in the real world for the past four years and as opposition to the Tories. What did you do?

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:00 - May 16 with 1076 views

giant_stow

But we will still clap for you! on 16:02 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
Not stupid, non-factual ones, no.

See? The argument of a five year old: 'stupid'.

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:06 - May 16 with 1064 views

But we will still clap for you! on 18:00 - May 16 by giant_stow
See? The argument of a five year old: 'stupid'.

But you post more stupid posts in reply to me than anyone else.

So yeah, stupid.

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:07 - May 16 with 1060 views

But we will still clap for you! on 17:52 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
I'm not a member of the Labour party. But I certainly championed them here and in the real world for the past four years and as opposition to the Tories. What did you do?

I went to sea.

I volunteered in the local food bank.

I volunteered for the Hearing Dogs Charity.

I have litter picked my street and helped out my neighbours. I don’t ask them about politics.

I voted for the good of my community.

That sums up my last four years, no talk. No championing. Just doing what I can for my people.

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:09 - May 16 with 1053 views

giant_stow

But we will still clap for you! on 18:06 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
But you post more stupid posts in reply to me than anyone else. So yeah, stupid.

I haven't said anything different to the people you've been debating above, but you carry on doubling done on your stupid - it's only reflecting on you mr.

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:15 - May 16 with 1043 views

But we will still clap for you! on 18:07 - May 16 by NewcyBlue
I went to sea. I volunteered in the local food bank. I volunteered for the Hearing Dogs Charity. I have litter picked my street and helped out my neighbours. I don’t ask them about politics. I voted for the good of my community. That sums up my last four years, no talk. No championing. Just doing what I can for my people.

Eh? I volunteer, give to charity, help my neighbours and also teach in my spare time.

None of that stops Patel and her ilk getting into power. That needs debate, not sticking your head in the sand and then complaining afterwards.

Anyway, you can't seem to accept that I disagree with how you see or don't see things. You're just going to keep getting annoyed.

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:16 - May 16 with 1041 views

But we will still clap for you! on 18:09 - May 16 by giant_stow
I haven't said anything different to the people you've been debating above, but you carry on doubling done on your stupid - it's only reflecting on you mr.

Righto!

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:19 - May 16 with 1033 views

But we will still clap for you! on 18:15 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
Eh? I volunteer, give to charity, help my neighbours and also teach in my spare time. None of that stops Patel and her ilk getting into power. That needs debate, not sticking your head in the sand and then complaining afterwards. Anyway, you can't seem to accept that I disagree with how you see or don't see things. You're just going to keep getting annoyed.

I’m far from annoyed. You’ve gotten grumpy with people for disagreeing with you lately.

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But we will still clap for you! on 18:24 - May 16 with 1024 views

But we will still clap for you! on 18:19 - May 16 by NewcyBlue
I’m far from annoyed. You’ve gotten grumpy with people for disagreeing with you lately.

I think you're confusing grumpy with me being pretty direct in my responses. And that's not new.

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But we will still clap for you! on 11:17 - May 17 with 941 views

BlueBadger

But we will still clap for you! on 14:23 - May 16 by monytowbray
Would have won the election if the “New” lot had of allowed it.

They really wouldn't. The 2019 was a shambles, messaging was unclear and confusing, Corbyn was toxic to most voters and his front bench were either utterly anonymous or incompetent.

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But we will still clap for you! on 11:27 - May 17 with 931 views

bournemouthblue

But we will still clap for you! on 08:33 - May 16 by Herbivore
She is one of the most awful human beings I have ever witnessed. She has no empathy, she seems to have a genuine nasty streak, and she's not even got the intelligence or integrity to be carrying out her job. She is happy to implement policies that would have made it difficult (if not impossible) for her parents to have come to the UK. Hateful tw@t, basically.

She'd have been sacked in most other sectors by now

How dodgy was that 'Israeli' holiday she went on. She was put on the naughty step for that one but was soon Home Secretary in what seemed like months?

She is one of the worst Tories for sure

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But we will still clap for you! on 11:31 - May 17 with 930 views