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Tories starting to splinter 09:32 - May 24 with 1801 viewsDubtractor

One observation over the last few years is that when the tories have an issue in the party they all pull together and hold the line, everything for the greater good etc. Whereas when Labour have an issue they tend to in fight and fragment, as seen over the last 5 years or so!

Does seem quite significant this morning that a few tory MPs are starting to snipe from the sidelines.

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Tories starting to splinter on 09:37 - May 24 with 1462 viewspointofblue

The Torres splintered in the early 90s against Thatcher and Major had an unsuccessful challenge against him. They’re capable of it and we’re actually an ineffective opposition for so long because Hague, Duncan-Smith and particularly Howard pandered too long to the right of the party. Actually this may have suited IDS and Howard’s agenda anyway; I think it’s a shame that Hague didn’t hold back his leadership bid until the party were more desperate.

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Tories starting to splinter on 09:55 - May 24 with 1418 viewsSteve_M

Well, apart from that one issue which has pulled the country apart and has torn the party apart for 30 years.

They do tend to prefer being in government to "winning the argument" though.

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Tories starting to splinter on 10:16 - May 24 with 1370 viewsWD19

The egos have always been such that they constantly fight and jockey for position in quite a feral way.

The difference seems to be that they pull themselves together briefly every time an election comes around, whereas other parties seem to rub along nicely for years and then start in-fighting only when there is an election to be won.

Gross generalisation obviously.
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Tories starting to splinter on 10:24 - May 24 with 1350 viewsGuthrum

As I've said before, our major parties are only coalitions of sometimes antagonistic interest groups, factions and personal followings. Only held together by habit, media recognition, finance, whipping/patronage and the way people treat the electoral system*.


* If people voted for which MP they want, rather than which party they belong to, maybe we'd get a better quality of candidate more able to take independent action on important causes.

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Tories starting to splinter on 10:25 - May 24 with 1341 viewsfactual_blue

Tories starting to splinter on 09:55 - May 24 by Steve_M

Well, apart from that one issue which has pulled the country apart and has torn the party apart for 30 years.

They do tend to prefer being in government to "winning the argument" though.


Their cheerleader on here once alleged the tories have to govern to clear up the mess left by a Labour government.


It was, of course the corrupt, alcoholic Reginald Maudling who first left a note for his successor 'sorry there's no money left'.

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Tories starting to splinter on 10:32 - May 24 with 1300 viewsmrshallisfit

Tories starting to splinter on 10:25 - May 24 by factual_blue

Their cheerleader on here once alleged the tories have to govern to clear up the mess left by a Labour government.


It was, of course the corrupt, alcoholic Reginald Maudling who first left a note for his successor 'sorry there's no money left'.


1964 and James Callaghan.
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Tories starting to splinter on 10:35 - May 24 with 1287 viewstractordownsouth

5 MPs have broken rank now. It's good to see that some of them have integrity.

Hopefully we'll see more, but the 2019 Tory intake contains some of the most awful people ever elected to the Commons, so I'm not holding my breath

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/16/who-are-the-conservatives-most-

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Tories starting to splinter on 10:40 - May 24 with 1273 viewsShawsey

The only trouble with this, is we need a strong PM at the moment. We cannot have an election anytime soon, so all this in fighting is hurting the country as a whole. A bit like Lambert, we can't get rid of him, so might as well let him try and fix it. If the PM and his pals implode, where does that leave us as a country? We need strong leadership at the moment and I don't know where that is going to come from.
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Tories starting to splinter on 11:42 - May 24 with 1205 viewsJ2BLUE

Tories starting to splinter on 10:40 - May 24 by Shawsey

The only trouble with this, is we need a strong PM at the moment. We cannot have an election anytime soon, so all this in fighting is hurting the country as a whole. A bit like Lambert, we can't get rid of him, so might as well let him try and fix it. If the PM and his pals implode, where does that leave us as a country? We need strong leadership at the moment and I don't know where that is going to come from.


BJ has never been a strong leader. Ignoring things like this 'for the good of te country' is an odd argument.

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Tories starting to splinter on 11:48 - May 24 with 1178 viewsShawsey

Tories starting to splinter on 11:42 - May 24 by J2BLUE

BJ has never been a strong leader. Ignoring things like this 'for the good of te country' is an odd argument.


Not ignore J2, just don't know what the answer is. We cannot have an election, so what are the choices. If Boris is forced out, who is a good replacement? I would struggle to trust anything any of them say at the moment. I am not saying back him at all costs, just don't see a better alternative within that party at the moment. Maybe the Chancellor?
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Tories starting to splinter on 11:50 - May 24 with 1161 viewseireblue

Tories starting to splinter on 10:40 - May 24 by Shawsey

The only trouble with this, is we need a strong PM at the moment. We cannot have an election anytime soon, so all this in fighting is hurting the country as a whole. A bit like Lambert, we can't get rid of him, so might as well let him try and fix it. If the PM and his pals implode, where does that leave us as a country? We need strong leadership at the moment and I don't know where that is going to come from.


You need a competent PM, not a strong one.
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Tories starting to splinter on 11:51 - May 24 with 1159 viewsreusersfreekicks

Tories starting to splinter on 11:48 - May 24 by Shawsey

Not ignore J2, just don't know what the answer is. We cannot have an election, so what are the choices. If Boris is forced out, who is a good replacement? I would struggle to trust anything any of them say at the moment. I am not saying back him at all costs, just don't see a better alternative within that party at the moment. Maybe the Chancellor?


Hammond Liddington - any Tory from mainstream
[Post edited 24 May 2020 11:52]
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Tories starting to splinter on 11:52 - May 24 with 1154 viewstractordownsouth

Tories starting to splinter on 11:51 - May 24 by reusersfreekicks

Hammond Liddington - any Tory from mainstream
[Post edited 24 May 2020 11:52]


Not an MP

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Tories starting to splinter on 11:53 - May 24 with 1151 viewsreusersfreekicks

Tories starting to splinter on 11:52 - May 24 by tractordownsouth

Not an MP


Aaargh a flaw in my plan!
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Tories starting to splinter on 11:53 - May 24 with 1146 viewseireblue

Tories starting to splinter on 10:35 - May 24 by tractordownsouth

5 MPs have broken rank now. It's good to see that some of them have integrity.

Hopefully we'll see more, but the 2019 Tory intake contains some of the most awful people ever elected to the Commons, so I'm not holding my breath

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/16/who-are-the-conservatives-most-


Maybe an interesting exercise, if you have a Conservative MP, to write to them about this.

Good way to find out if you have an MP that will just follow the party line to protect the boss.
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Tories starting to splinter on 11:56 - May 24 with 1133 viewsShawsey

Tories starting to splinter on 11:50 - May 24 by eireblue

You need a competent PM, not a strong one.


Think that is nit picking, but point taken.
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Tories starting to splinter on 12:00 - May 24 with 1124 viewsTrequartista

The current administration split from swathes of Tory MPs a long time ago. You only have to think of people like Gauke, Hammond, May, Ken Clarke who seem decent people in comparison. Some of them are not even MPs anymore. A few dissenters will mean absolutely nothing to Johnson and his team.
[Post edited 24 May 2020 12:00]

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Tories starting to splinter on 12:00 - May 24 with 1116 viewsfactual_blue

Tories starting to splinter on 11:56 - May 24 by Shawsey

Think that is nit picking, but point taken.


You can be strong without being competent, and vice versa.

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Tories starting to splinter on 12:01 - May 24 with 1105 viewsShawsey

Tories starting to splinter on 12:00 - May 24 by factual_blue

You can be strong without being competent, and vice versa.


I did say point taken.
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Tories starting to splinter on 12:02 - May 24 with 1104 viewsvapour_trail

The difference here is that Cummings has a lot of enemies within the party. There will be lots of people who have their guns pre-loaded in the event of an opportunity such as this.

I still wouldn’t expect him to go though. He and Johnson share an arrogance, a demonstrable belief that they can do exactly as they wish, and a contempt for the people they purport to serve.

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Tories starting to splinter on 12:04 - May 24 with 1088 viewsDarth_Koont

Yes, it's interesting to try and understand why they can come together in a crisis and why even challenges from a breakaway party like UKIP and Brexit have ultimately fed back into Tory electoral support.

But that's easy when they essentially share the same ideology. I'm going to call it New Imperialism which is capitalism mixed with some white man liberty and a bit of nationalism/racism. From the Conservative One Nation types to UKIP/Brexit Party and even some of the Tommy Robinson outriders beyond, they're all on the same spectrum. As are the predominantly right-wing press. So there's a solidity and immovability there even when on paper they are "split" or "challenged" from Farage's latest populist venture. Farage is basically a grass-roots campaigner for the Tories.

As you say in the centre and on the left the arguments become much more fierce and differences are exaggerated beyond all reason. You'd think it should be all about how to get the Tories out but there are different ideologies here. Not least that a lot of the Labour right and LibDems are New Imperialists themselves. Admittedly at the socially responsible end of the spectrum but they've internalised and now defend the ideology of the status quo as some form of political Stockholm Syndrome. So much so that they think genuine social democrats and socialists who would be just like any other social democrats and socialists in Europe are now radicals and extremists. So they become the first line of defence to protect the status quo and the Establishment, just like the national media of the centre and left.

Sure, fighting on the right's terms and in their territory might see a "better than the Tories" government once in a while but it does nothing to stop the slide of the debate into the hands of the populist right and slow the increasing structural gaps in society.

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Tories starting to splinter on 12:06 - May 24 with 1078 viewsShawsey

Tories starting to splinter on 12:02 - May 24 by vapour_trail

The difference here is that Cummings has a lot of enemies within the party. There will be lots of people who have their guns pre-loaded in the event of an opportunity such as this.

I still wouldn’t expect him to go though. He and Johnson share an arrogance, a demonstrable belief that they can do exactly as they wish, and a contempt for the people they purport to serve.


Think we can all agree that they have made a right hash of things, but who is the alternative? If Boris goes, who replaces him? There will be no election for at least a couple of years, so who from that rabble can step in and run the country?
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Tories starting to splinter on 14:09 - May 24 with 955 viewsBlueBadger

Tories starting to splinter on 11:53 - May 24 by eireblue

Maybe an interesting exercise, if you have a Conservative MP, to write to them about this.

Good way to find out if you have an MP that will just follow the party line to protect the boss.


I've already emailed mine re: the Starmer smears and had no reposnse. I'll try again then though. I suspect I know the answer that he shameless forelock tugger will give.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Tories starting to splinter on 14:18 - May 24 with 929 viewsDarth_Koont

Tories starting to splinter on 14:09 - May 24 by BlueBadger

I've already emailed mine re: the Starmer smears and had no reposnse. I'll try again then though. I suspect I know the answer that he shameless forelock tugger will give.


At least 5 years late, mate.

The Conservative government - and directly or indirectly that MP —didn't get where they are today by acting with honesty and decency. And it's through lies and smears, with the conscious or unwitting support of the centre, that they are going to be in power for another 4 years at least.
[Post edited 24 May 2020 14:19]

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Tories starting to splinter on 14:20 - May 24 with 911 viewsElephantintheRoom

The tories have always been a deeply divided party - and always will be. The only unusual thing at present is the inexperience and sheer uselessness of an inexperienced cabinet largely chosen it would seem for their shamelessness and ability to suck up to Johnson on his puerile Brexit strategy.

Having a lying, cynical, lazy opportunist like BJ as leader was always going to end in tears.... both he and Cummings have plenty of enemies within their fractured and dysfunctional party with little to unite them now that 'Brexit is done'' and old people and diabetics are being culled.

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