| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy 09:40 - May 28 with 5542 views | Steve_M |
Still, what does one expect from a a government that has concentration camps for ethnic minority groups deemed troublesome.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/28/china-vote-npc-national-security-l
Keep an eye on the border tension between China and India though, increasing risk of violent flashpoints there. [Post edited 28 May 2020 9:40]
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:19 - May 28 with 1530 views | monytowbray |
I think WWIII is already underway personally. We’re f*cked. |  |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:23 - May 28 with 1521 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:09 - May 28 by Guthrum |
Not sure anybody would dispute your suspicions of China. They are hugely expansionist, to some extent in territory, but vastly more so in terms of influence.
Mind you, that was something started decades ago by Mao. Just nowadays they have the economic muscle to back it up. |
Their relations with Australia seem to have gone markedly downhill recently too. |  |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:26 - May 28 with 1508 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:19 - May 28 by monytowbray |
I think WWIII is already underway personally. We’re f*cked. |
WWIII started on the TWTD political forum long ago. There's already been several casualties of war.
;-) | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:35 - May 28 with 1491 views | Guthrum |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:19 - May 28 by monytowbray |
I think WWIII is already underway personally. We’re f*cked. |
Technically, WWIII lasted from 1914 to 1919. Only the first two, 1756-63 and 1792-1815 don't seem to be included amongst the numbering. |  |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:40 - May 28 with 1480 views | monytowbray |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:35 - May 28 by Guthrum |
Technically, WWIII lasted from 1914 to 1919. Only the first two, 1756-63 and 1792-1815 don't seem to be included amongst the numbering. |
Well whatever the number, it’s already started. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:59 - May 28 with 1458 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:35 - May 28 by Guthrum |
Technically, WWIII lasted from 1914 to 1919. Only the first two, 1756-63 and 1792-1815 don't seem to be included amongst the numbering. |
If only the History channel knew this! How many more documentaries on Hitler are they going to make! It's like they keep remixing the same record every year. The revisionists can only remix the same thing so many times surely! It's time for some new material! Would be plenty for them to get their teeth stuck into with the Seven Years' War and French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.
Just out of interest, are you a historian Guthrum? You certainly seem to have a very good handle of history judging by your posts. You must of done a lot of historical reading at the very least. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:19 - May 28 with 1444 views | Guthrum |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:59 - May 28 by midastouch |
If only the History channel knew this! How many more documentaries on Hitler are they going to make! It's like they keep remixing the same record every year. The revisionists can only remix the same thing so many times surely! It's time for some new material! Would be plenty for them to get their teeth stuck into with the Seven Years' War and French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars.
Just out of interest, are you a historian Guthrum? You certainly seem to have a very good handle of history judging by your posts. You must of done a lot of historical reading at the very least. |
The last, really. I'm a painter and decorator. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:30 - May 28 with 1430 views | Guthrum |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:40 - May 28 by monytowbray |
Well whatever the number, it’s already started. |
Most global conflicts are presaged or preceded by lesser, regional ones which set up the conditions for a major outbreak. With the First World War (using the conventional numbering  ), it was the Balkan Wars of 1912-13. With WWII, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino-Japanese War.
The French Revolution, with its subsequent wars, was in part triggered by national bankruptcy following their involvement in the American War of Independence.
That is what you need to look out for. But, equally, it is difficult to identify. The localised conflicts of the Cold War never led to a larger confrontation. Probably due to recent memory of the serious carnage between 1914 and 1945, plus the overwhelming threat of nuclear destruction. That first aspect has faded, but the second still holds. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:38 - May 28 with 1421 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:19 - May 28 by Guthrum |
The last, really. I'm a painter and decorator. |
Nice one mate. I've yet to meet a painter and decorator who wanted to talk to me about the Seven Years' War. The last decorator I had only wanted to talk about darts. Not that I minded that as I'm much stronger on darts than I am history and yet I've somehow got a degree in modern history lol!
Being an undergraduate in history is a right skive. In my 3rd year I only had about 8 hours of lectures and seminars a week at the UEA. Left me plenty of time to watch and play darts instead!
Professor John Charmley was at the UEA when I was there (not sure if he still is). He's another revisionist. You ever read any of his books? The first lecture he gave us in year one he spent a whole hour trying to convince us all how Thatcher saved Britain! I was meant to have him in year 3 for a module on 'Splendid Isolation' but he missed a lot of that year with bad health. Might sound like a lucky escape but he seemed like a nice guy. I once heard him on Radio 5 put the boot in on IDS when he was the Tory leader. I wish I had a recording of that interview as the way he did it was hilarious. [Post edited 28 May 2020 13:04]
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:49 - May 28 with 1379 views | Guthrum |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:38 - May 28 by midastouch |
Nice one mate. I've yet to meet a painter and decorator who wanted to talk to me about the Seven Years' War. The last decorator I had only wanted to talk about darts. Not that I minded that as I'm much stronger on darts than I am history and yet I've somehow got a degree in modern history lol!
Being an undergraduate in history is a right skive. In my 3rd year I only had about 8 hours of lectures and seminars a week at the UEA. Left me plenty of time to watch and play darts instead!
Professor John Charmley was at the UEA when I was there (not sure if he still is). He's another revisionist. You ever read any of his books? The first lecture he gave us in year one he spent a whole hour trying to convince us all how Thatcher saved Britain! I was meant to have him in year 3 for a module on 'Splendid Isolation' but he missed a lot of that year with bad health. Might sound like a lucky escape but he seemed like a nice guy. I once heard him on Radio 5 put the boot in on IDS when he was the Tory leader. I wish I had a recording of that interview as the way he did it was hilarious. [Post edited 28 May 2020 13:04]
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Have heard the name, but don't think I've read any of his books.
I did start a history degree, but lost the plot and never finished it. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:54 - May 28 with 1375 views | WeWereZombies |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:30 - May 28 by Guthrum |
Most global conflicts are presaged or preceded by lesser, regional ones which set up the conditions for a major outbreak. With the First World War (using the conventional numbering ), it was the Balkan Wars of 1912-13. With WWII, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino-Japanese War.
The French Revolution, with its subsequent wars, was in part triggered by national bankruptcy following their involvement in the American War of Independence.
That is what you need to look out for. But, equally, it is difficult to identify. The localised conflicts of the Cold War never led to a larger confrontation. Probably due to recent memory of the serious carnage between 1914 and 1945, plus the overwhelming threat of nuclear destruction. That first aspect has faded, but the second still holds. |
Another contributor to the Great (or not so great, anyway 1914-18) War was a relaxing of tensions between Great Britain and the United States. For the last half of the nineteenth century the United States Navy was practically useless due to being corralled in the ports on the Eastern Seaboard by the Royal Navy. This had two major results, the United States Navy started to research and develop submarines; and when the tensions lessened the Royal Navy relaxed their grip and brought more ships back into Europe. The shift in deployment stoked Germany into strengthening their Navy and contributed to the arms race in Europe that had such devastating consequences. |  |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:02 - May 28 with 1363 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:49 - May 28 by Guthrum |
Have heard the name, but don't think I've read any of his books.
I did start a history degree, but lost the plot and never finished it. |
Forgotten Victory by Gary Sheffield isn't a bad read. That was one of the better revisionist books I read during my time at the UEA. I don't read much history now though. My eldest daughter is about to start an A level in history. She's getting predicted grades as she's obviously missed all her GCSE exams due to Covid-19. She's doing history, politics, sociology and law. I gave her a few of my old books this week (glad I kept them) which was nice. Books like A.J.P. Taylor's The Struggle For Mastery In Europe. Saved me buying some of the same ones all over again! | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:18 - May 28 with 1343 views | WeWereZombies |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:11 - May 28 by StokieBlue |
They have enough to threaten each other which is more likely than them threatening the UK or France.
3 missiles each way would be 1/4 billion people dead.
Still pretty unlikely though as has been pointed out.
SB |
I was not suggesting that Britain or France were going to square up to China or India, I was just comparing firepower. If things did escalate to the nuclear level (and there is always the chance that it will happen less dramatically than nuclear bombs with the use of depleted uranium or similar mission creep) then an alliance of nations would be the likely deterrent - no doubt with the United States leading the campaign. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:23 - May 28 with 1337 views | StokieBlue |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:18 - May 28 by WeWereZombies |
I was not suggesting that Britain or France were going to square up to China or India, I was just comparing firepower. If things did escalate to the nuclear level (and there is always the chance that it will happen less dramatically than nuclear bombs with the use of depleted uranium or similar mission creep) then an alliance of nations would be the likely deterrent - no doubt with the United States leading the campaign. |
I'm not sure how an alliance of nations not under attack could be a deterrent to them attacking each other. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you though.
It's not going to escalate like that though, there is nothing in it for either side.
SB |  | | |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:26 - May 28 with 1332 views | WeWereZombies |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:23 - May 28 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure how an alliance of nations not under attack could be a deterrent to them attacking each other. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you though.
It's not going to escalate like that though, there is nothing in it for either side.
SB |
And it is also unlikely that China and India are going to allow their nations to be used as proxies in power relations between Russia and the United States (although the three way economic power play between China, Russia and the United States makes it all an interesting ponder from a strategic viewpoint). | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:27 - May 28 with 1333 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 12:54 - May 28 by WeWereZombies |
Another contributor to the Great (or not so great, anyway 1914-18) War was a relaxing of tensions between Great Britain and the United States. For the last half of the nineteenth century the United States Navy was practically useless due to being corralled in the ports on the Eastern Seaboard by the Royal Navy. This had two major results, the United States Navy started to research and develop submarines; and when the tensions lessened the Royal Navy relaxed their grip and brought more ships back into Europe. The shift in deployment stoked Germany into strengthening their Navy and contributed to the arms race in Europe that had such devastating consequences. |
Going into the 20th century there were those in Britain that saw Germany as being much more of a natural ally than France (seen then very much as the old traditional enemy) and Russia. We could of quite easily ended up going to war on the side of Germany if things had of turned out differently. Joseph Chamberlain was always very keen for Britain to forge an alliance with Germany rather than France and Russia. I know Wiki isn't very academic but there is a little bit about Chamberlain's overtures to Germany here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Chamberlain#Anglo-German_Alliance_negotiati [Post edited 28 May 2020 16:22]
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:18 - May 28 with 1300 views | BlueBadger |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 11:35 - May 28 by Guthrum |
Technically, WWIII lasted from 1914 to 1919. Only the first two, 1756-63 and 1792-1815 don't seem to be included amongst the numbering. |
Beevor(?) argues convincingly that 'official' WWII started earlier than 1939, citing Japan's actions in South East Asia as evidence. |  |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:24 - May 28 with 1296 views | TractorWood |
I've been to HK a few times. Cracking place. However, I did get bitten by an Australian in Wan Chai.
Glad I've been as I don't think I'd go now with China continuing to glacialy annex it. |  |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:35 - May 28 with 1287 views | Steve_M |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:02 - May 28 by midastouch |
Forgotten Victory by Gary Sheffield isn't a bad read. That was one of the better revisionist books I read during my time at the UEA. I don't read much history now though. My eldest daughter is about to start an A level in history. She's getting predicted grades as she's obviously missed all her GCSE exams due to Covid-19. She's doing history, politics, sociology and law. I gave her a few of my old books this week (glad I kept them) which was nice. Books like A.J.P. Taylor's The Struggle For Mastery In Europe. Saved me buying some of the same ones all over again! |
There's a big difference between Charmley's revisionism and Sheffield's I think which perhaps reflects the character and worldview of each. Sheffield's 'Forgotten Victory' is good, I'll read his biography of Haig one day too.
I did skim one of Charmley's books, 'Churchill's Grand Alliance' at uni. Can't remember it well enough to critique properly but less impressed. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:42 - May 28 with 1285 views | Guthrum |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:02 - May 28 by midastouch |
Forgotten Victory by Gary Sheffield isn't a bad read. That was one of the better revisionist books I read during my time at the UEA. I don't read much history now though. My eldest daughter is about to start an A level in history. She's getting predicted grades as she's obviously missed all her GCSE exams due to Covid-19. She's doing history, politics, sociology and law. I gave her a few of my old books this week (glad I kept them) which was nice. Books like A.J.P. Taylor's The Struggle For Mastery In Europe. Saved me buying some of the same ones all over again! |
The post-war pro-communist* social historians (Carr, Hobsbawm, Taylor, Thompson) were still dominant when I was doing A-level in the '80s, so I gravitated towards mild revisionism. Especially when I started looking at primary sources and first-hand accounts, getting into a contemporary mindset.
* That's not to say they weren't great historians, it was just their ideological approach. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:45 - May 28 with 1285 views | Guthrum |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:27 - May 28 by midastouch |
Going into the 20th century there were those in Britain that saw Germany as being much more of a natural ally than France (seen then very much as the old traditional enemy) and Russia. We could of quite easily ended up going to war on the side of Germany if things had of turned out differently. Joseph Chamberlain was always very keen for Britain to forge an alliance with Germany rather than France and Russia. I know Wiki isn't very academic but there is a little bit about Chamberlain's overtures to Germany here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Chamberlain#Anglo-German_Alliance_negotiati [Post edited 28 May 2020 16:22]
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Altho the German reaction to the Boer War rather scuppered a lot of that good feeling. | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:57 - May 28 with 1276 views | StokieBlue |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 13:26 - May 28 by WeWereZombies |
And it is also unlikely that China and India are going to allow their nations to be used as proxies in power relations between Russia and the United States (although the three way economic power play between China, Russia and the United States makes it all an interesting ponder from a strategic viewpoint). |
What economic power play do Russia have? They have oil and that's it - their economy is smaller than the UK's.
Militarily they clearly still have a say but that's about it isn't it?
SB | | | |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 15:02 - May 28 with 1270 views | jaykay |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 10:34 - May 28 by StokieBlue |
Hadn't seen that.
That clash with 100's injured is more than I expected.
SB |
i think that area of north sikkm is always a hot spot. i think you can only visit that area with a permit. i was in darjeerling and kalimpong in late jan and was surprised at the amount of army bases that are in that area. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 15:07 - May 28 with 1260 views | midastouch |
| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 14:57 - May 28 by StokieBlue |
What economic power play do Russia have? They have oil and that's it - their economy is smaller than the UK's.
Militarily they clearly still have a say but that's about it isn't it?
SB |
They've accumulated a lot of gold which could be very useful going forwards. Not as much as China mind you.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-30/bank-of-russia-to-halt-domest
"Russia spent more than $40 billion building a war chest of bullion over the past five years. Now, it’s calling it quits." | |
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| Meanwhile China breaches international treaties to rescind Hong Kong's autonomy on 15:10 - May 28 with 1251 views | StokieBlue |
That's not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things though and their economy is totally based on oil which is not going to previous highs anytime soon.
As an overall economy it's smaller than the UK with a GDP only 59% that of the UK.
SB | | | |
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