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Gonna say it now, anyone who wants to sit there saying “BuT tHey’Re BeInG vIoLeNt” needs to pull their head out their ass. This has gone on for decades. Every time the correct avenues are used nothing changes. If violence isn’t the way forward, then stop exhausting people to it as a last resort.
With that I leave you with the two things that brought me to tears (the second one comes with a distress warning).
And on that note, this tweet from the DC mayor says everything you need to know about America right now.
While he hides behind his fence afraid/alone, I stand w/ people peacefully exercising their First Amendment Right after the murder of #GeorgeFloyd & hundreds of years of institutional racism
There are no vicious dogs & ominous weapons. There is just a scared man. Afraid/alone...
— Muriel Bowser #StayHomeDC Lite (@MurielBowser) May 30, 2020
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 09:58 - May 31 by pointofblue
Same thing happened with the 2011 riots; the original completely understandable peaceful protest was hijacked by those who wanted anarchy and mayhem to benefit themselves and no one else.
You may be confusing anarchy with poor people taking stuff.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:04 - May 31 by Marshalls_Mullet
Yes, I was in Manchester when that happened.
The Manchester riots was pure opportunism by local youths, and didn't appear to have anything to do with the original London protests.
....of course they were encouraged when the Mayor said he was sending loads of Manchester police force to help with riots elsewhere!
Not the same scale as the US situation, but you'll always get people looking to take advantage of genuine protests.
I think it's more accurate to see looting as part of the protest to be honest. Rather than something separate.
We understand that street-level crime and violence isn't a moral issue per se but much more an indicator of long-term poverty and inequality. Even though wider society may still be in denial about that.
Pronouns: He/Him
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:18 - May 31 with 1220 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:13 - May 31 by Darth_Koont
I think it's more accurate to see looting as part of the protest to be honest. Rather than something separate.
We understand that street-level crime and violence isn't a moral issue per se but much more an indicator of long-term poverty and inequality. Even though wider society may still be in denial about that.
There will be various factors at play.
Some genuine opportunism from desperate people, some organised crime and some distraction tactics from opposition far right groups looking to make things worse.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 08:59 - May 31 by GlasgowBlue
That speech from Killer smile was dignified, impassioned and heartbreaking all at the same time.
He’s right that change can only come from the ballot box or peaceful protest. Which by in large the majority of the black community are participating in.
What the black community dint need are AntiFa thugs stoking the fires and bringing even more trouble in the black community.
People breaking windows out of restaurants on 7th in Eugene. People who were leading chants later screaming at them to stop. pic.twitter.com/yGjexIjeUR
LISTEN UP: dear white-bourgeois Antifa-clad gentrifying “anarchistsâ€, STOP BAITING more OVER-POLICING OF MINORITY COMMUNITIES through provoking your hissy-fit rioting “on our behalvesâ€. LISTEN TO THIS STRONG BLACK MAN’S WISDOM: ✊🽠https://t.co/Y2KqjG9uGf
This completely plays into Trump’s hand because it won’t be the white rioters who will be remembered. It will all come down on the black community.
It’s another form of white privilege as they know full well that they went get anywhere near the same punishment that they’d get if they were black.
Back to Killer Mike. He’s right when he says it shouldn’t just be one prosecution. Everyone involved in the murder of George Floyd needs to be persecuted and sentenced appropriately. Justice has to be seen to work for all citizens regardless if their colour.
[Post edited 31 May 2020 9:10]
Spot on GB this is tragic and those most in need of change will end up being the victims again thousands of times over and Trump has just been dealt a great election hand after his unbelievably shambolic last few months. Just tragic.
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:28 - May 31 with 1203 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:18 - May 31 by Marshalls_Mullet
There will be various factors at play.
Some genuine opportunism from desperate people, some organised crime and some distraction tactics from opposition far right groups looking to make things worse.
Of course. But focusing on those and trying to define what is acceptable opposition and protest all serves to deny the underlying causes and issues. Or at least keep from addressing them.
These are protests and reactions against society and what it justifies. Society can't then define how these protests take place and how anger is channeled on terms that are acceptable to society. Do you see the problem with that?
Pronouns: He/Him
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:30 - May 31 with 1188 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:28 - May 31 by Darth_Koont
Of course. But focusing on those and trying to define what is acceptable opposition and protest all serves to deny the underlying causes and issues. Or at least keep from addressing them.
These are protests and reactions against society and what it justifies. Society can't then define how these protests take place and how anger is channeled on terms that are acceptable to society. Do you see the problem with that?
I think I get what you mean but the issue is the original message gets lost. The riots will overpower the original narrative and the saddest thing is nothing will change.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:28 - May 31 by Darth_Koont
Of course. But focusing on those and trying to define what is acceptable opposition and protest all serves to deny the underlying causes and issues. Or at least keep from addressing them.
These are protests and reactions against society and what it justifies. Society can't then define how these protests take place and how anger is channeled on terms that are acceptable to society. Do you see the problem with that?
Yes.
I just don't think wide scale looting helps the cause, it detracts from it... whatever the societal justification.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:30 - May 31 by pointofblue
I think I get what you mean but the issue is the original message gets lost. The riots will overpower the original narrative and the saddest thing is nothing will change.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:30 - May 31 by pointofblue
I think I get what you mean but the issue is the original message gets lost. The riots will overpower the original narrative and the saddest thing is nothing will change.
Unfortunately there have also been countless peaceful protests and democratic attempts to improve society. All ignored.
Recently I heard someone say that the only time things change in the US (probably the UK too if we're being honest) isn't through facts but through emotion.
If people recognise the emotion and its validity then maybe we'll be talking about the bigger picture instead of being sidetracked by what is acceptable behaviour from a small minority.
Pronouns: He/Him
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:37 - May 31 with 1173 views
This has been bubbling away for ages. Colin Kaepernick tried to start a peaceful movement. He was condemned and pretty much blackballed from the NFL because of it.
Trump needs to be defeated. He's reached peaked danger to the world and god knows what he would do in another four years with no re-election consequences.
On a side note, is it wrong to hope Antifa get a bloody good seeing to by the riot police?
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:24 - May 31 by jimmyvet
Spot on GB this is tragic and those most in need of change will end up being the victims again thousands of times over and Trump has just been dealt a great election hand after his unbelievably shambolic last few months. Just tragic.
Well we all remember the time Colin Kaepernick started a mass peaceful protest against police brutality which crippled Trump’s support and saw him lose the 2016 election.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:03 - May 31 by Darth_Koont
There's a few people on this thread who should take the time to watch Trevor Noah's take.
The main aspect about a social contract that is broken is key. And attempts to impose what is socially acceptable protest or how anger should be channelled come across as hollow as a result.
Trevor Noah vid by Oldsmoker30 May 2020 10:48 This is a vid of Trevor Noah commenting on the George Floyd killing.
It's not funny like his Daily Show output and it's not meant to be.
It's his thoughts on American society and it's attitude towards Black people.
The fierce individualism element of the US psyche*/national myth ("tough, self-reliant frontiersmen") does not really allow space for a social contract in the way it's understood in the UK.
The Founding Fathers and later immigrants fled the highly integrated and ordered societies of Europe, often because they found themselves on the wrong side of it. This and the War of Independence imbued a massive streak of anti-authoritarianism. Then there was the battle to establish the early settlements and, later, expand into the West. Which, even if many did not experience it directly, fed into popular culture and created an atmosphere of holding out on your own in a hostile and lawless environment, protected only by your gun and your guts.
The idea of an interdependence between rulers and people is alien to that viewpoint, however much the latter is anachronistic to modern urban society (which, to be fair, a lot of the USA is not).
* That's not to say all Americans think that way, far from it. But many do and their views are quite influential. Especially as they make up a large chunk of Republican - and specifically Trump's - support.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:12 - May 31 by Marshalls_Mullet
I don't think he is.
It's fair to say that in 2011 plenty of people were just in it for the anarchy.
In Manchester, the Ugg shop was the first to be targeted. It was like a free shopping trip.
Sure some looters will be poor desperate people, but there will be a lot of organised crime, and opportunists in all large scale looking.
Isn't it funny how people conflate rioting, looting and violence with anarchy when in reality it is often states that are the most violent of institutions.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:37 - May 31 by J2BLUE
This has been bubbling away for ages. Colin Kaepernick tried to start a peaceful movement. He was condemned and pretty much blackballed from the NFL because of it.
Trump needs to be defeated. He's reached peaked danger to the world and god knows what he would do in another four years with no re-election consequences.
On a side note, is it wrong to hope Antifa get a bloody good seeing to by the riot police?
As wrong as hoping that the riot police get a bloody good seeing to by Antifa.
I don't agree personally with looting and burning cars and buildings. And I don't agree with those in Antifa who basically want a fight. But there's a majority of black people and the left behind them who shouldn't be ignored or demonised as a result.
Rioting, violence, looting and criminal damage happen at times of great social unrest. We already know this. And we also know reactionary voices will use that to resist change and reform. The rest of society needs to focus on what's really important which is looking at ourselves.
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:48 - May 31 with 1126 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:37 - May 31 by J2BLUE
This has been bubbling away for ages. Colin Kaepernick tried to start a peaceful movement. He was condemned and pretty much blackballed from the NFL because of it.
Trump needs to be defeated. He's reached peaked danger to the world and god knows what he would do in another four years with no re-election consequences.
On a side note, is it wrong to hope Antifa get a bloody good seeing to by the riot police?
Yes because you’ve bought the narrative spun by right-wing knuckleheads on Twitter (including Trump) that every white protester is antifa and everyone associated with antifa is a violent thug. Not to mention you’d be siding with the police which after their actions over the last few days would be an odd choice.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:37 - May 31 by Darth_Koont
Unfortunately there have also been countless peaceful protests and democratic attempts to improve society. All ignored.
Recently I heard someone say that the only time things change in the US (probably the UK too if we're being honest) isn't through facts but through emotion.
If people recognise the emotion and its validity then maybe we'll be talking about the bigger picture instead of being sidetracked by what is acceptable behaviour from a small minority.
But how many times has rioting worked? The emotion at spiral out of control but did the outbreak of unrest in 2011 change the approach in the U.K.? The Ferguson riot was six years ago yet we’re back here again. Cincinnati, Oakland, Anaheim, Baltimore, Milwaukee, Charlotte all in the last twenty years - yet the reasons are still the same. Whether peaceful or violent it isn’t cutting through.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 09:23 - May 31 by BanksterDebtSlave
When it comes to violence the State always wins. History teaches us that democracy changes nothing on the ground in reality in relation to police brutality. Maybe the only alternative is to create parallel autonomous local structures and then inform state institutions of violence that they are no longer welcome in said communities.
Seems you missed it first time GB....also all of the violent response is not coming from leftie antifa whatever the f@ck that is meant to be anyway! I do find it strange how quickly some are happy to jump on violent responses to brutal violent realities more than the original issue though....part of the reason nothing ever changes.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 09:25 - May 31 by BanksterDebtSlave
Apart from none of it addresses the problem that the State ignores peaceful calls for change.
What it does address is the level of intelligence of the man. He knows that violence and pointless destruction will only play into the hands of the powers that be and do no favours at all for the black community.
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:57 - May 31 with 1097 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:48 - May 31 by LankHenners
Yes because you’ve bought the narrative spun by right-wing knuckleheads on Twitter (including Trump) that every white protester is antifa and everyone associated with antifa is a violent thug. Not to mention you’d be siding with the police which after their actions over the last few days would be an odd choice.
Try reading my post without your added BS spin. I'm not on Twitter, I have no idea what they are saying. I didn't say every white protester was Antifa. I am not 'siding with the police'.
Antifa's reputation is well deserved and as Darth says they are just looking for a fight.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 09:32 - May 31 by GlasgowBlue
Do you think that white privileged AntiFa thugs burning down black communities and black owned business, ignoring the pleas of peaceful black protesters and community leaders, is going to lead to any positive change?
“antiFA” is essentially a left wing slur. It’s not an organisation, just a loose term.
Your wording shows a huge failure to digest the issue at hand.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:45 - May 31 by BanksterDebtSlave
Isn't it funny how people conflate rioting, looting and violence with anarchy when in reality it is often states that are the most violent of institutions.
That's just down to a conflation of anarchy (a condition of having no rules or authority) with anarchism (a political philosophy based around having no centralised and/or unrepresentative government).
Strictly speaking, riots and looting are a symptom of the former, but most definitely not of the latter.
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