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Gonna say it now, anyone who wants to sit there saying “BuT tHey’Re BeInG vIoLeNt” needs to pull their head out their ass. This has gone on for decades. Every time the correct avenues are used nothing changes. If violence isn’t the way forward, then stop exhausting people to it as a last resort.
With that I leave you with the two things that brought me to tears (the second one comes with a distress warning).
And on that note, this tweet from the DC mayor says everything you need to know about America right now.
While he hides behind his fence afraid/alone, I stand w/ people peacefully exercising their First Amendment Right after the murder of #GeorgeFloyd & hundreds of years of institutional racism
There are no vicious dogs & ominous weapons. There is just a scared man. Afraid/alone...
— Muriel Bowser #StayHomeDC Lite (@MurielBowser) May 30, 2020
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:45 - May 31 by Guthrum
The fierce individualism element of the US psyche*/national myth ("tough, self-reliant frontiersmen") does not really allow space for a social contract in the way it's understood in the UK.
The Founding Fathers and later immigrants fled the highly integrated and ordered societies of Europe, often because they found themselves on the wrong side of it. This and the War of Independence imbued a massive streak of anti-authoritarianism. Then there was the battle to establish the early settlements and, later, expand into the West. Which, even if many did not experience it directly, fed into popular culture and created an atmosphere of holding out on your own in a hostile and lawless environment, protected only by your gun and your guts.
The idea of an interdependence between rulers and people is alien to that viewpoint, however much the latter is anachronistic to modern urban society (which, to be fair, a lot of the USA is not).
* That's not to say all Americans think that way, far from it. But many do and their views are quite influential. Especially as they make up a large chunk of Republican - and specifically Trump's - support.
That's one particular slice that promotes the individual over society. Pushed by white conservatives who don't need society as they're well on top as it is.
But I think that ignores the very strong local and community aspect in US society and its politics. Not to mention how a majority made up of non-whites/non-conservatives sees life.
But individualism overpowering society is an interesting idea. At a certain point, we're seeing that it's young selfish blacks and old selfish whites (neither of whom give a f*** about society for completely different reasons) that are the more extreme combatants.
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:04 - May 31 with 1558 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:12 - May 31 by Marshalls_Mullet
I don't think he is.
It's fair to say that in 2011 plenty of people were just in it for the anarchy.
In Manchester, the Ugg shop was the first to be targeted. It was like a free shopping trip.
Sure some looters will be poor desperate people, but there will be a lot of organised crime, and opportunists in all large scale looking.
I remember hearing interviews with some of the 2011 rioters. They considered themselves less well off than the shopkeepers and didn't see why they shouldn't have free nice stuff. There was no comprehension of the work and financial risk/sacrifice which goes into running a small business. Let alone any kind of genuine social grievance or political aims.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:01 - May 31 by Guthrum
That's just down to a conflation of anarchy (a condition of having no rules or authority) with anarchism (a political philosophy based around having no centralised and/or unrepresentative government).
Strictly speaking, riots and looting are a symptom of the former, but most definitely not of the latter.
Anarchy is the believe society can govern itself without government or state. It’s pie-in-the-sky but at a core believe exactly that.
This thread is a “But Corbyn” with an American spin.
Here’s a thought; if violence isn’t the answer, then stop allowing it to become a final resort.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:57 - May 31 by J2BLUE
Try reading my post without your added BS spin. I'm not on Twitter, I have no idea what they are saying. I didn't say every white protester was Antifa. I am not 'siding with the police'.
Antifa's reputation is well deserved and as Darth says they are just looking for a fight.
The idea that antifa is a thug organisation started and spread on MAGA and MAGA-adjacent twitter. It’s a very loose term which right wing and or otherwise easily fooled people decided to apply to a specific group of thugs.
I’m not denying there are people who consider themselves ‘antifa’ who act with unnecessary violence. But to say ‘antifa’ as a whole is a violent organisation or deserving of police brutality is a total misunderstanding of who they are and what they stand for.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:08 - May 31 by LankHenners
The idea that antifa is a thug organisation started and spread on MAGA and MAGA-adjacent twitter. It’s a very loose term which right wing and or otherwise easily fooled people decided to apply to a specific group of thugs.
I’m not denying there are people who consider themselves ‘antifa’ who act with unnecessary violence. But to say ‘antifa’ as a whole is a violent organisation or deserving of police brutality is a total misunderstanding of who they are and what they stand for.
Fair point, I shouldn't have tarred them all with the same brush.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 07:54 - May 31 by bluelagos
A far better question is what would you suggest they do? How do they stop policemen killing black people in their communities?
If you can answer that, then those rioting have an alternative way of expressing their disgust at the way the system currently sees a policeman happy to kill a man with little fear of repercussions.
Why are people even discussing anti-fa rather than the actual issues at the core of the rioting?
Namely are there any effective alternatives open to the communities in question?
And how can those in power, abusing that power actually be held to account?
Discussions on the activities of a small minority of protesters does seem to be a deflection from the real issues at hand here.
Isn’t it weird also for all the “violent” narratives of the protests that almost everyone on the ground is saying it’s the police harming innocent reporters and not the “rioters”.
Glassers, we’ve had some heavy blows recently but you aren’t stupid. Quite the opposite. I’d have hoped after your recent defences that got undermined by the very politicians you ran in to help spread the spin for you’d have learned something about the narratives of those who rule us.
If it were the Middle East vs a government the West doesn’t like we’d be arming them.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:17 - May 31 by bluelagos
Why are people even discussing anti-fa rather than the actual issues at the core of the rioting?
Namely are there any effective alternatives open to the communities in question?
And how can those in power, abusing that power actually be held to account?
Discussions on the activities of a small minority of protesters does seem to be a deflection from the real issues at hand here.
For me the issue is the rioting and looting distracts - it gives TPTB an out, a degree of whataboutery, something to point the finger at. Rather than having an uncomfortable truth face them, which kneeling during the National Anthem did until the NFL effectively crushed dissent, it allows an increase in power as way of response.
And all rioting and looting does in general is hurt those within the community who have little more than those running amok. The big fish are fine, they’re protected, even if their warehouses are hit insurance and reserves will bail them out - or they’ll simply let the workers go. It’s having little impact on those who make the decisions.
The issue is peaceful protest doesn’t work either. What needs to happen is the police are given a set of standards which are clear and unambiguous combined with much improved training and a weeding out of old school officers who have archaic views or an action first - thought second response. Then there needs to be an open discussion about the equalisation of society and how to improve this but this will forever be the pitfall as those with money will not lose it without a fight. Either they will lobby lawmakers or, in terms of businesses, any losses will simply be passed on to either staff or consumers.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:01 - May 31 by Guthrum
That's just down to a conflation of anarchy (a condition of having no rules or authority) with anarchism (a political philosophy based around having no centralised and/or unrepresentative government).
Strictly speaking, riots and looting are a symptom of the former, but most definitely not of the latter.
Indeed....the power of language!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:00 - May 31 by monytowbray
“antiFA” is essentially a left wing slur. It’s not an organisation, just a loose term.
Your wording shows a huge failure to digest the issue at hand.
Yeah, it strikes me as being typical Alex Jones/Guido-type, tribalistic language used as a rallying call to their followers. A clear sign that people are looking to exploit this situation. People shouldn’t be so daft to promote it, especially those in the media.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:42 - May 31 by pointofblue
For me the issue is the rioting and looting distracts - it gives TPTB an out, a degree of whataboutery, something to point the finger at. Rather than having an uncomfortable truth face them, which kneeling during the National Anthem did until the NFL effectively crushed dissent, it allows an increase in power as way of response.
And all rioting and looting does in general is hurt those within the community who have little more than those running amok. The big fish are fine, they’re protected, even if their warehouses are hit insurance and reserves will bail them out - or they’ll simply let the workers go. It’s having little impact on those who make the decisions.
The issue is peaceful protest doesn’t work either. What needs to happen is the police are given a set of standards which are clear and unambiguous combined with much improved training and a weeding out of old school officers who have archaic views or an action first - thought second response. Then there needs to be an open discussion about the equalisation of society and how to improve this but this will forever be the pitfall as those with money will not lose it without a fight. Either they will lobby lawmakers or, in terms of businesses, any losses will simply be passed on to either staff or consumers.
I have seen a documentary on American police training. The thing that stood out for me is they are trained to think everyone they approach may have a gun on them. This in turn puts them straight on the defensive. With that continued mindset which is deep rooted in the training itself nothing will change.
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:52 - May 31 with 1399 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 11:52 - May 31 by pointofblue
Couldn’t agree more - was just pointing out the protests becoming violent (against property) has not made any difference whatsoever.
But again, back to page one. What’s the alternative?
If you can’t answer, then support them until they get an alternative in place that will get their voice heard as NOTHING has changed since in 60 years.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:19 - May 31 by monytowbray
But again, back to page one. What’s the alternative?
If you can’t answer, then support them until they get an alternative in place that will get their voice heard as NOTHING has changed since in 60 years.
Support violence which will be disproportionately affecting other poor people in terms of their livelihoods? This is the issue, the destruction of property will not hit the richest; it will hurt those who have little to start with.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:23 - May 31 by pointofblue
Support violence which will be disproportionately affecting other poor people in terms of their livelihoods? This is the issue, the destruction of property will not hit the richest; it will hurt those who have little to start with.
Yet people keep defending the violence. Wonder if they'd be so supportive if it was their business up in flames.
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I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:37 - May 31 with 1320 views
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:19 - May 31 by monytowbray
But again, back to page one. What’s the alternative?
If you can’t answer, then support them until they get an alternative in place that will get their voice heard as NOTHING has changed since in 60 years.
That’s up to the community that is most affected by the racism. Not a bunch of middle class white boys who live with their parents and will not suffer the consequences of their community being burned to the ground.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:37 - May 31 by J2BLUE
This has been bubbling away for ages. Colin Kaepernick tried to start a peaceful movement. He was condemned and pretty much blackballed from the NFL because of it.
Trump needs to be defeated. He's reached peaked danger to the world and god knows what he would do in another four years with no re-election consequences.
On a side note, is it wrong to hope Antifa get a bloody good seeing to by the riot police?
Classic J2.
"It's never right to punch a nazi"
Also J2:
"Hope Antifa get smashed up by the police".
[Post edited 31 May 2020 12:54]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:37 - May 31 by GlasgowBlue
That’s up to the community that is most affected by the racism. Not a bunch of middle class white boys who live with their parents and will not suffer the consequences of their community being burned to the ground.
What makes you think they're all middle class white boys other than your right wing prejudice?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 10:37 - May 31 by J2BLUE
This has been bubbling away for ages. Colin Kaepernick tried to start a peaceful movement. He was condemned and pretty much blackballed from the NFL because of it.
Trump needs to be defeated. He's reached peaked danger to the world and god knows what he would do in another four years with no re-election consequences.
On a side note, is it wrong to hope Antifa get a bloody good seeing to by the riot police?
As a general rule, if one side are actual nazis, NEVER hope for the other side to get a kicking.
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:55 - May 31 by BlueBadger
As a general rule, if one side are actual nazis, NEVER hope for the other side to get a kicking.
As ever people who have no idea what Antifa actually is can't wait to jump on them while ignoring the bigger issues, and in some cases still voting for parties that implemented the policies that kept promote racism and division.
ACTUAL nazis with maxhine guns have been prowling government buildings with immunity but that's OK because someone smashed up a TD Bank. Meanwhile those monstrous Antifa members are causing havoc by making hand sanitizer for homeless people.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I’ve cried twice this weekend already... on 12:54 - May 31 by SpruceMoose
What makes you think they're all middle class white boys other than your right wing prejudice?
My right wing prejudice places me in support of the victims of racism rather than the white privileged bandwagon jumpers who are bringing nothing but grief to the black community.
These people remain ‘black in America’ even after these uniformed & masked, majority-white “anarchist†Antifa rioters go home to mummy and daddy. https://t.co/PLz9qvk4vf
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