| Can lockdown ever recover? 10:32 - May 31 with 3865 views | Bluefish |
it is officially dead due to a catalogue of incidents. It started with VE Day, it was virtually encouraged to push the rules and various dodgy information was fed to the press and not corrected, we then had the vague messages from the government in the easing and the complete stopping of enforcement of the rules. The Cummings story took it to a new level and now the rules being demolished even further means it is dead in its current form. Will it ever be possible to get the country to comply again? Certain parts of the population have ignored it throughout and it hadnt been enforced, i can't see a 2nd attempt being adhered to |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:38 - May 31 with 3069 views | pointofblue |
I think the only way would be to initiate curfews and potentially bring in the military. The government’s response has been so poor naturally it will feed the public’s approach. |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:42 - May 31 with 3044 views | WD19 |
It didn’t start with VE start....it started to slip (a tiny bit) over the Easter weekend and has just continued to gather pace ever since.
Ultimately the nature of some people will be to do what they want as soon as they think they can get away with it. Gently break the rules once....then a bit more....then push it a bit more. It was never going to hold forever without draconian measures to back it up. |  | | |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:46 - May 31 with 3029 views | Swansea_Blue |
Yes but only with sensible government. It’s still working well in Wales but the messaging has been clear and there haven’t been high profile breaking of the rules/law by those making them.
Can England gain control again if it needs to? Maybe. It would probably need a big upturn in deaths to focus people’s minds though, to remind them it’s a killer. I don’t think the personnel in the current government can now control it on their own - they’ve lost credibility and I don’t think they’re capable. [Post edited 31 May 2020 12:01]
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:47 - May 31 with 3025 views | sparks |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:42 - May 31 by WD19 |
It didn’t start with VE start....it started to slip (a tiny bit) over the Easter weekend and has just continued to gather pace ever since.
Ultimately the nature of some people will be to do what they want as soon as they think they can get away with it. Gently break the rules once....then a bit more....then push it a bit more. It was never going to hold forever without draconian measures to back it up. |
Indeed- the government has been complicit in this- through Cummings, through vague and inconsistent messaging.
Who knows whether that has been intentional.
Either way, if we now have a second spike (already happening locally in a number of places) we have a real problem. Both in terms of compliance / enforcement, and in terms of economics.
It should have been done properly in the first place. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:49 - May 31 with 3013 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:47 - May 31 by sparks |
Indeed- the government has been complicit in this- through Cummings, through vague and inconsistent messaging.
Who knows whether that has been intentional.
Either way, if we now have a second spike (already happening locally in a number of places) we have a real problem. Both in terms of compliance / enforcement, and in terms of economics.
It should have been done properly in the first place. |
Is herd immunity the unspoken policy? |  | | |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:55 - May 31 with 2989 views | Guthrum |
If there is a sharp climb in the number of cases - and particularly deaths - then it will do. If things get really bad, there are means of enforcing it.
However, I would also say that as long as the majority of people are applying common sense, precautions and distancing, then perhaps it does not matter so much. Maybe it's different in other areas, particularly cities like London, but, from what I've seen, a lot of people still are doing that. There always were a certain number who didn't bother, but not all that many.
I'm not advocating a total removal of lockdown - far from it. It would be terrible to have come so far, accepted so much pain and to lose control now. But now it's embedded in the public consciousness, a little easing will probably not lead to outright disaster. |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:55 - May 31 with 2987 views | sparks |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:49 - May 31 by reusersfreekicks |
Is herd immunity the unspoken policy? |
I think there is a degree of that evidence int he current approach.
The dishonesty is alarming still. We clearly have not met the sort of numbers required to relax. The Government claims otherwise. Various places are currently having their worst figures so far. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:01 - May 31 with 2969 views | sparks |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:55 - May 31 by Guthrum |
If there is a sharp climb in the number of cases - and particularly deaths - then it will do. If things get really bad, there are means of enforcing it.
However, I would also say that as long as the majority of people are applying common sense, precautions and distancing, then perhaps it does not matter so much. Maybe it's different in other areas, particularly cities like London, but, from what I've seen, a lot of people still are doing that. There always were a certain number who didn't bother, but not all that many.
I'm not advocating a total removal of lockdown - far from it. It would be terrible to have come so far, accepted so much pain and to lose control now. But now it's embedded in the public consciousness, a little easing will probably not lead to outright disaster. |
And yet- we appear to be heading for peaks already (N Somerset for instance).
I broadly agree with what you say about coming so far. My inclination is that we did not do it properly or strictly enough. We have had a half arsed lockdown, with half arsed results- and are now proceeding in the same vein as other nations, as if we had achieved the same progress as they have. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:03 - May 31 with 2955 views | Bluefish |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:55 - May 31 by Guthrum |
If there is a sharp climb in the number of cases - and particularly deaths - then it will do. If things get really bad, there are means of enforcing it.
However, I would also say that as long as the majority of people are applying common sense, precautions and distancing, then perhaps it does not matter so much. Maybe it's different in other areas, particularly cities like London, but, from what I've seen, a lot of people still are doing that. There always were a certain number who didn't bother, but not all that many.
I'm not advocating a total removal of lockdown - far from it. It would be terrible to have come so far, accepted so much pain and to lose control now. But now it's embedded in the public consciousness, a little easing will probably not lead to outright disaster. |
It doesn't exist for parts of cities and hasn't for a long time, if ever. I manage a local park so view the cctv daily, there are mass congregations every day. In the evenings we have car fulls in the car park and last week one evening this spilled into a fight involving 15-20 people. The police were called and duly arrived, not only did they do nothing about the fight they didn't even do anything about the volume of people. The police left and the gathering continued. | |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:07 - May 31 with 2934 views | BloomBlue |
Everybody breaks rules and the law, how many people drive faster than the speed limit and driving fast kills people not just the car driver. The country isn't interested in following every rule/law this country has freedom of choice and faught for that right. Some people will follow rules and some won't ie they won't social distance or drive within the speed limit. |  | | |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:09 - May 31 with 2928 views | Bluefish |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:07 - May 31 by BloomBlue |
Everybody breaks rules and the law, how many people drive faster than the speed limit and driving fast kills people not just the car driver. The country isn't interested in following every rule/law this country has freedom of choice and faught for that right. Some people will follow rules and some won't ie they won't social distance or drive within the speed limit. |
Measures are put in place for speeding, cameras and fines. Nothing seems to be in place for social distancing. | |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:19 - May 31 with 2892 views | Guthrum |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:01 - May 31 by sparks |
And yet- we appear to be heading for peaks already (N Somerset for instance).
I broadly agree with what you say about coming so far. My inclination is that we did not do it properly or strictly enough. We have had a half arsed lockdown, with half arsed results- and are now proceeding in the same vein as other nations, as if we had achieved the same progress as they have. |
The N Somerset peak is related to a very specific outbreak in Weston. It's not affecting other fairly nearby areas (e.g. Taunton). You will get these "cells" of infection a a branch of the virus works itself through. If caught and clamped down upon (people now know what they're looking for much more than in February and early March), then they can be stopped before becoming a wider problem.
I think, from looking at the numbers, that the lockdown has been very effective in bringing things down from a high peak. Tho it was never going to be a very rapid solution. The key was stopping the peak from getting so high, which was a combination of factors - including, but not limited to, the somewhat slow imposition of a formal lockdown. | |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:21 - May 31 with 2889 views | sparks |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:19 - May 31 by Guthrum |
The N Somerset peak is related to a very specific outbreak in Weston. It's not affecting other fairly nearby areas (e.g. Taunton). You will get these "cells" of infection a a branch of the virus works itself through. If caught and clamped down upon (people now know what they're looking for much more than in February and early March), then they can be stopped before becoming a wider problem.
I think, from looking at the numbers, that the lockdown has been very effective in bringing things down from a high peak. Tho it was never going to be a very rapid solution. The key was stopping the peak from getting so high, which was a combination of factors - including, but not limited to, the somewhat slow imposition of a formal lockdown. |
The WsM thign does appear to be focussed around an accomodation block. The problem is, with the relxation now happening, it will be very easy for such instances to get out and about very quickly.
The discrepancy between the effectiveness of our lockdown and those in France, or Spain for instance, concerns me greatly. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:27 - May 31 with 2869 views | davblue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:38 - May 31 by pointofblue |
I think the only way would be to initiate curfews and potentially bring in the military. The government’s response has been so poor naturally it will feed the public’s approach. |
I've been no saint, but I've visited parents in the garden and kept our distance a few times, not loads 3 times I can recall. But going to a beach, hanging around with my mates for a beer, towns I've steered clear of.
People arent thinking about the second wave and if we go Into another lockdown, people will be putting their jobs at risk. In town yesterday to collect my sons pescription, the amount of people who weren't seemingly bothered about keeping their distance for the families or mine greatly annoyed me yesterday.
Appreciate some on here will call me a hypocrite, but I've always kept my distance and been aware of the bigger picture. |  | | |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:40 - May 31 with 2839 views | BarcaBlue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:21 - May 31 by sparks |
The WsM thign does appear to be focussed around an accomodation block. The problem is, with the relxation now happening, it will be very easy for such instances to get out and about very quickly.
The discrepancy between the effectiveness of our lockdown and those in France, or Spain for instance, concerns me greatly. |
There were just four reported Covid related deaths in Spain yesterday and it's been single figures for about a week now. Despite that the restrictions where I am are still pretty strict and with a couple of exceptions similar to those in the UK when "lockdown" started.
The PM here acknowledged that mistakes were made at the start and apologized for those, notably locking down to late and literally from one day to the next.
The problem now is the fighting between the various parties and autonomous governments but if all goes well lockdown restrictions will be completely lifted on June 21st for the whole country. The path to that date has been pretty clear from when it was first published around a month ago - that has really helped focus people I think.
I'm in the tourist business but worry about completely opening Spain up to visitors in July. I think that could bite us on the bum after the Summer. |  | | |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:48 - May 31 with 2811 views | eireblue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:49 - May 31 by reusersfreekicks |
Is herd immunity the unspoken policy? |
Flattening the second curve probably.
Or put another way, stretching out the number of infections and deaths over a longer period whilst starting up the economy. |  | | |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:54 - May 31 with 2789 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:42 - May 31 by WD19 |
It didn’t start with VE start....it started to slip (a tiny bit) over the Easter weekend and has just continued to gather pace ever since.
Ultimately the nature of some people will be to do what they want as soon as they think they can get away with it. Gently break the rules once....then a bit more....then push it a bit more. It was never going to hold forever without draconian measures to back it up. |
Johnson’s muddled address was a key blow to the public health messages.
They’re still at it - Jenrick announced late last night, on Twitter, that vulnerable groups now don’t need to self isolate. That seems to contradict the 5 stage response strategy that says they need to stay at home until there are no new cases. It’s a mess.
The strategy and its communication have both been poor, so no wonder people are confused. | |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:56 - May 31 with 2785 views | sparks |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:54 - May 31 by Swansea_Blue |
Johnson’s muddled address was a key blow to the public health messages.
They’re still at it - Jenrick announced late last night, on Twitter, that vulnerable groups now don’t need to self isolate. That seems to contradict the 5 stage response strategy that says they need to stay at home until there are no new cases. It’s a mess.
The strategy and its communication have both been poor, so no wonder people are confused. |
The versions of the chart seem to change. It was a stupid system, which could not react to specifics or nuance. Childish. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:58 - May 31 with 2779 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:27 - May 31 by davblue |
I've been no saint, but I've visited parents in the garden and kept our distance a few times, not loads 3 times I can recall. But going to a beach, hanging around with my mates for a beer, towns I've steered clear of.
People arent thinking about the second wave and if we go Into another lockdown, people will be putting their jobs at risk. In town yesterday to collect my sons pescription, the amount of people who weren't seemingly bothered about keeping their distance for the families or mine greatly annoyed me yesterday.
Appreciate some on here will call me a hypocrite, but I've always kept my distance and been aware of the bigger picture. |
In reality all you have done is bend the rules to suit yourself. Think that is also what Dominic Cummings did. |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:04 - May 31 with 2757 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:40 - May 31 by BarcaBlue |
There were just four reported Covid related deaths in Spain yesterday and it's been single figures for about a week now. Despite that the restrictions where I am are still pretty strict and with a couple of exceptions similar to those in the UK when "lockdown" started.
The PM here acknowledged that mistakes were made at the start and apologized for those, notably locking down to late and literally from one day to the next.
The problem now is the fighting between the various parties and autonomous governments but if all goes well lockdown restrictions will be completely lifted on June 21st for the whole country. The path to that date has been pretty clear from when it was first published around a month ago - that has really helped focus people I think.
I'm in the tourist business but worry about completely opening Spain up to visitors in July. I think that could bite us on the bum after the Summer. |
They’ve been lifting lockdown in England when the situation is worse than when they went into lockdown in the first place. It’s very odd when you compare it to what other countries have done. | |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:14 - May 31 with 2726 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:56 - May 31 by sparks |
The versions of the chart seem to change. It was a stupid system, which could not react to specifics or nuance. Childish. |
Yep. Putting timelines, even just indicative, was daft too. | |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:36 - May 31 with 2665 views | ParisBlue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 10:46 - May 31 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes but only with sensible government. It’s still working well in Wales but the messaging has been clear and there haven’t been high profile breaking of the rules/law by those making them.
Can England gain control again if it needs to? Maybe. It would probably need a big upturn in deaths to focus people’s minds though, to remind them it’s a killer. I don’t think the personnel in the current government can now control it on their own - they’ve lost credibility and I don’t think they’re capable. [Post edited 31 May 2020 12:01]
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Indeed. When Boris decided to change the message to "Stay Alert" the Welsh government changed their message to "Nothing has changed - you must stay at home".
And people did.
More people out yesterday though. Remains to be seen how the "you can go 5 miles to visit friends" works out.
We could really do with a couple of weeks of terrible weather. Just like British summers 20 years ago. |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:39 - May 31 with 2658 views | Plums |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:04 - May 31 by Swansea_Blue |
They’ve been lifting lockdown in England when the situation is worse than when they went into lockdown in the first place. It’s very odd when you compare it to what other countries have done. |
It is and that’s the really worrying thing. The numbers will rise again but large chunks of the public aren’t going to obey a government that has lost its trust. |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:40 - May 31 with 2656 views | giant_stow |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 11:40 - May 31 by BarcaBlue |
There were just four reported Covid related deaths in Spain yesterday and it's been single figures for about a week now. Despite that the restrictions where I am are still pretty strict and with a couple of exceptions similar to those in the UK when "lockdown" started.
The PM here acknowledged that mistakes were made at the start and apologized for those, notably locking down to late and literally from one day to the next.
The problem now is the fighting between the various parties and autonomous governments but if all goes well lockdown restrictions will be completely lifted on June 21st for the whole country. The path to that date has been pretty clear from when it was first published around a month ago - that has really helped focus people I think.
I'm in the tourist business but worry about completely opening Spain up to visitors in July. I think that could bite us on the bum after the Summer. |
Got a feeling the uk summer will be blown awat by the srcond peak. Just a guess, but life seems all but back to normal here. |  |
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| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:42 - May 31 with 2647 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Can lockdown ever recover? on 12:39 - May 31 by Plums |
It is and that’s the really worrying thing. The numbers will rise again but large chunks of the public aren’t going to obey a government that has lost its trust. |
People are using a loss of trust in the government as an excuse. If you really don’t trust the government when they ease the lockdown stay at home. | |
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