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The article defines it, and other terms in a fairly straight talking way. I think because some of these issues have been shortened to 2-3 words, they can become misunderstood by the non BAME community.
in that article the stats are interesting - but the explanation of them is very complex:
"In 2018-19, black people were more than nine times as likely to be stopped and searched by police as white people. They were over three times as likely to be arrested as white people. They were more than five times as likely to have force used against them by police as white people. A quarter of the prison population comes from BAME backgrounds, despite representing just 14% of the population. In young offenders institutions, this increases to 50%."
they reflect engrained and multi-dimensional socio / economic difference. it isn't necessarily that at the point of someone being arrested or convicted etc there are decisions made overtly on the basis of race. those sorts of outcomes are more to do with cumulative and systematic social and economic disadvantage than individual acts of discrimination. if you're middle class, educated, living in posh areas, high earning etc then you are largely protected from those sorts of outcomes regardless of your race.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
in that article the stats are interesting - but the explanation of them is very complex:
"In 2018-19, black people were more than nine times as likely to be stopped and searched by police as white people. They were over three times as likely to be arrested as white people. They were more than five times as likely to have force used against them by police as white people. A quarter of the prison population comes from BAME backgrounds, despite representing just 14% of the population. In young offenders institutions, this increases to 50%."
they reflect engrained and multi-dimensional socio / economic difference. it isn't necessarily that at the point of someone being arrested or convicted etc there are decisions made overtly on the basis of race. those sorts of outcomes are more to do with cumulative and systematic social and economic disadvantage than individual acts of discrimination. if you're middle class, educated, living in posh areas, high earning etc then you are largely protected from those sorts of outcomes regardless of your race.
I agree re the stats, each stat could probably do with an article on their own to discuss the background.
I just think overall it's a useful article for explaining some of the terms that have been mentioned during the protests.
I agree re the stats, each stat could probably do with an article on their own to discuss the background.
I just think overall it's a useful article for explaining some of the terms that have been mentioned during the protests.
Even with the newest article... There are things that confuse me
If Silence = Violence, but white people who speak up labelled "Ally" or "White Saviour" in derogatory terms... Then please I need an instruction guide on how to provide the right level of support...
I agree re the stats, each stat could probably do with an article on their own to discuss the background.
I just think overall it's a useful article for explaining some of the terms that have been mentioned during the protests.
i agree, a useful article.
I just think that talking about privilege in a uni-dimensional way is problematic. as the article shows when we think about discrimination and disadvantage we tend to think about outcomes which, while unevenly distributed, aren't actually a personal issue for lots of people in the back community. it isn't a homogenous community, and there are people within it who benefit from other forms of privilege. white privilege is a good way of capturing a certain form of injustice, but society is a lot more complex than that. i don't accept that race trumps every other socio economic / demographic characteristic.
but as i said in another post - you can only focus on one thing at once and the awful events in the us mean that it is right now to focus on race.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
in that article the stats are interesting - but the explanation of them is very complex:
"In 2018-19, black people were more than nine times as likely to be stopped and searched by police as white people. They were over three times as likely to be arrested as white people. They were more than five times as likely to have force used against them by police as white people. A quarter of the prison population comes from BAME backgrounds, despite representing just 14% of the population. In young offenders institutions, this increases to 50%."
they reflect engrained and multi-dimensional socio / economic difference. it isn't necessarily that at the point of someone being arrested or convicted etc there are decisions made overtly on the basis of race. those sorts of outcomes are more to do with cumulative and systematic social and economic disadvantage than individual acts of discrimination. if you're middle class, educated, living in posh areas, high earning etc then you are largely protected from those sorts of outcomes regardless of your race.
But, in turn, questions have to be asked why people of Afro-Caribbean family origin (particularly) are more often economically disadvantaged than others. Have they been - even subconsciously - excluded from the opportunities and jobs which would have improved that? Has discrimination and prior conflicts with the police forced them into socio-economic circumstances where crime (especially drug dealing) is the best or only route to a decent income? Have they been denied the best educational opportunities, through poor funding of inner-city schools and the drive for exam results at all costs?
in that article the stats are interesting - but the explanation of them is very complex:
"In 2018-19, black people were more than nine times as likely to be stopped and searched by police as white people. They were over three times as likely to be arrested as white people. They were more than five times as likely to have force used against them by police as white people. A quarter of the prison population comes from BAME backgrounds, despite representing just 14% of the population. In young offenders institutions, this increases to 50%."
they reflect engrained and multi-dimensional socio / economic difference. it isn't necessarily that at the point of someone being arrested or convicted etc there are decisions made overtly on the basis of race. those sorts of outcomes are more to do with cumulative and systematic social and economic disadvantage than individual acts of discrimination. if you're middle class, educated, living in posh areas, high earning etc then you are largely protected from those sorts of outcomes regardless of your race.
Socio-economic inequalities are of course an issue, but it would be very naive to think that there is not discrimination on the grounds of race also contributing to some of those statistics.
I just think that talking about privilege in a uni-dimensional way is problematic. as the article shows when we think about discrimination and disadvantage we tend to think about outcomes which, while unevenly distributed, aren't actually a personal issue for lots of people in the back community. it isn't a homogenous community, and there are people within it who benefit from other forms of privilege. white privilege is a good way of capturing a certain form of injustice, but society is a lot more complex than that. i don't accept that race trumps every other socio economic / demographic characteristic.
but as i said in another post - you can only focus on one thing at once and the awful events in the us mean that it is right now to focus on race.
I agree, I think the message would be communicated better if the term were renamed.
George Floyd and I were both arrested for allegedly spending a counterfeit $20 bill. For George Floyd, a man my age, with two kids, it was a death sentence. For me, it is a story I sometimes tell at parties. That, my friends, is White privilege.
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
But, in turn, questions have to be asked why people of Afro-Caribbean family origin (particularly) are more often economically disadvantaged than others. Have they been - even subconsciously - excluded from the opportunities and jobs which would have improved that? Has discrimination and prior conflicts with the police forced them into socio-economic circumstances where crime (especially drug dealing) is the best or only route to a decent income? Have they been denied the best educational opportunities, through poor funding of inner-city schools and the drive for exam results at all costs?
Another factor to consider is a perception of scarcity and this accelerates racism in a harshly competitive economy. G.K. Chesterton on distributivism or, more recently, Amartya Sen on why Ethiopian famine in the 1980s was driven by ideology and not by actual scarcity, both argue that we need never be short of food, clothing and shelter wherever we are in this World. But fears about motivation among the holders of high office mitigate against socially beneficial policies and they find it useful to, either overtly or subconsciously, use race (and gender, class, anything else they can get media exposure for) to set people against each other.
But, in turn, questions have to be asked why people of Afro-Caribbean family origin (particularly) are more often economically disadvantaged than others. Have they been - even subconsciously - excluded from the opportunities and jobs which would have improved that? Has discrimination and prior conflicts with the police forced them into socio-economic circumstances where crime (especially drug dealing) is the best or only route to a decent income? Have they been denied the best educational opportunities, through poor funding of inner-city schools and the drive for exam results at all costs?
absolutely - those are exactly the right questions. but you can equally ask why members of white families very often see economic disadvantage repeated generation after generation. disadvantage is cumulative and restricts opportunities - that is true whatever your race. the answer to your questions is complex and involves lots of different economic and social processes - including education and where you live. there aren't simple answers.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
absolutely - those are exactly the right questions. but you can equally ask why members of white families very often see economic disadvantage repeated generation after generation. disadvantage is cumulative and restricts opportunities - that is true whatever your race. the answer to your questions is complex and involves lots of different economic and social processes - including education and where you live. there aren't simple answers.
Certainly there will be white families in the same cycle. Possibly down to lasting effects of discrimination in the past (e.g. anti-Irish sentiment in the 19th and early 20th centuries, or dislike of Travellers). Some of those, too, will have descended into criminality. But the question is about proportion.
absolutely - those are exactly the right questions. but you can equally ask why members of white families very often see economic disadvantage repeated generation after generation. disadvantage is cumulative and restricts opportunities - that is true whatever your race. the answer to your questions is complex and involves lots of different economic and social processes - including education and where you live. there aren't simple answers.
But the point is that black people face additional disadvantage and discrimination across social and economic groups. It's not right to imply that most of the issues black people face come from them being disproportionately represented in lower socio-economic groups. Discrimination against black people for being black is very real, whether poor or not.
But the point is that black people face additional disadvantage and discrimination across social and economic groups. It's not right to imply that most of the issues black people face come from them being disproportionately represented in lower socio-economic groups. Discrimination against black people for being black is very real, whether poor or not.
Quite.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
But the point is that black people face additional disadvantage and discrimination across social and economic groups. It's not right to imply that most of the issues black people face come from them being disproportionately represented in lower socio-economic groups. Discrimination against black people for being black is very real, whether poor or not.
But the point is that black people face additional disadvantage and discrimination across social and economic groups. It's not right to imply that most of the issues black people face come from them being disproportionately represented in lower socio-economic groups. Discrimination against black people for being black is very real, whether poor or not.
i was responding to a question about socio-economic disadvantage. people tend to confuse socio economic disadvantage with discrimination - the first is not proof of the second.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
i was responding to a question about socio-economic disadvantage. people tend to confuse socio economic disadvantage with discrimination - the first is not proof of the second.
You responded to stats about arrests and stop and search by saying it was a complex socio-economic issue and not necessarily racism. You weren't responding to a question about socio-economic disadvantage at the outset, you proffered it as an explanation.
You responded to stats about arrests and stop and search by saying it was a complex socio-economic issue and not necessarily racism. You weren't responding to a question about socio-economic disadvantage at the outset, you proffered it as an explanation.
well it is a complex socio-economic issue and by itself isn't necessarily proof of racism.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
well it is a complex socio-economic issue and by itself isn't necessarily proof of racism.
Socio-economic factors don't explain why black people are much more likely to be pulled over by the police than white people, or why they are more likely to be charged and prosecuted for drug use than white people. It doesn't explain why they are less likely to be offered an interview than a white compatriot with the same CV either. Of course socio-economic factors are an issue but so is racism. It's not an either/or.
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