| UK BLM protest images 07:19 - Jun 8 with 9768 views | Libero |
I’m having a look through various photos and videos from the UK protests over the weekend, there’s some really powerful and moving images and unlike most “awareness” campaigns I’m pretty sure this is going to create real change in public mindset as well as tangible change moving forwards for BAME people.
However, I can’t look at the protests in London in particular without feeling a queasy discomfort at the closeness of proximity of so, so, so many people in one place.
I fully support everyone’s right to protest, I’m right behind the movement and I understand why those who are angry are justifiably angry but I am concerned about the potential of a second peak being accelerated by the sheer number of people and the closeness of proximity between them.
It’s a bit difficult for me to square away that anxiety without feeling like I’m being a bit subversive.
Is it reasonable? [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 7:28]
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| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 with 4545 views | bluelagos |
Couple of thoughts, I think as the only attender of the BLM protests on here (or the only one willing to admit to it)
Of course the virus is upper mind in people's minds, indeed I saw way more masks being worn at the Ipswich demo than I ever have inside a supermarket. The same applied to the London protesters from what I saw on Tv.
Also, the protests were outside, which is recognised as lower risk. And the number of infected is now around 1 in a 1000 (latest figures) so while clear breaches of social distancing happened, I think it was collectively way less than say happened in national branches of supermarkets this weekend. That is not to say there is no risk of spread, of course there is, but given lines of unmasked police officers were happily there, I feel it is easy to over estimate the dangers.
So yeah, a small risk is there. Which needs to be weighed up on the injustices being fought for. To those who say now is not the time I'd simply ask when is it time? Cos for years police brutality has gone unchallenged by those same voices. Correct if I am wrong here but I must have missed Pritti Patel speaking out against police racism or lack of accountability in the UK police force.
It could be a moment in history when fundamental changes were brought in. A moment when people may ask what side were you on? What side did you march for, which side did you actively support?
And to say or do nothing is to side with the status quo. Which is to side with those who hold and abuse their power. And to stay home isn't something I judge appropriate for me or my conscience.
There is only 1 way to deal with bullies, and that is to look them in the face and say "Fck you". In whatever form they come. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 8:33]
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| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 with 4535 views | itfcjoe |
It's a difficult one.
Things like this generally can't be planned because they are set up from trigger points that no one knows are coming, in this case the murder of George Floyd, so the timing can never be exact.
But the timing couldn't be worse.
We have a Govt, like in the US, who are only interested in a Culture War. Covid was a problem that actually had to be governed, not just blamed on one set of people and the Government were totally floundering with it as can only try and control news cycles.
But now, any spike is the fault of Black Lives Matters protesters, with a handy target for their base of the BAME community and the 'lefties' or 'libs' or whatever they are called now.
If it rises from here, it won't be because beaches have previously been packed, or lockdown effectively gone due to Cummings, or schools reopened, or transport numbers rising as work starts again.....it will all be to do with these protests, and when R was barely below 1 as it was this is dangerous.
Looking at it with no emotion, and as a white man, then they shouldn't have happened because it gives the Government an out for their actions by allowing them to try and reopen the Culture War they, like Trump, will spend their whole term trying to play with their divisive politics that have got them here.
But, obviously not that simple |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 08:55 - Jun 8 with 4452 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Chill out, you're entitled to feel a little anxious about the Covid risk of the mass gathering. It's a genuine concern.
Just as you can also support the cause.
Don't over analyse it. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:01 - Jun 8 with 4418 views | lowhouseblue |
| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
Couple of thoughts, I think as the only attender of the BLM protests on here (or the only one willing to admit to it)
Of course the virus is upper mind in people's minds, indeed I saw way more masks being worn at the Ipswich demo than I ever have inside a supermarket. The same applied to the London protesters from what I saw on Tv.
Also, the protests were outside, which is recognised as lower risk. And the number of infected is now around 1 in a 1000 (latest figures) so while clear breaches of social distancing happened, I think it was collectively way less than say happened in national branches of supermarkets this weekend. That is not to say there is no risk of spread, of course there is, but given lines of unmasked police officers were happily there, I feel it is easy to over estimate the dangers.
So yeah, a small risk is there. Which needs to be weighed up on the injustices being fought for. To those who say now is not the time I'd simply ask when is it time? Cos for years police brutality has gone unchallenged by those same voices. Correct if I am wrong here but I must have missed Pritti Patel speaking out against police racism or lack of accountability in the UK police force.
It could be a moment in history when fundamental changes were brought in. A moment when people may ask what side were you on? What side did you march for, which side did you actively support?
And to say or do nothing is to side with the status quo. Which is to side with those who hold and abuse their power. And to stay home isn't something I judge appropriate for me or my conscience.
There is only 1 way to deal with bullies, and that is to look them in the face and say "Fck you". In whatever form they come. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 8:33]
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what is the evidence of current police racism in the uk?
(cos a disproportionate number of black people being arrested, or in prison, or being subject to stop and search etc may well be due to many bad things - structural inequality, age distribution, the nature of where people live - rather than racism by the police). |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:01 - Jun 8 with 4415 views | bluelagos |
| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
Couple of thoughts, I think as the only attender of the BLM protests on here (or the only one willing to admit to it)
Of course the virus is upper mind in people's minds, indeed I saw way more masks being worn at the Ipswich demo than I ever have inside a supermarket. The same applied to the London protesters from what I saw on Tv.
Also, the protests were outside, which is recognised as lower risk. And the number of infected is now around 1 in a 1000 (latest figures) so while clear breaches of social distancing happened, I think it was collectively way less than say happened in national branches of supermarkets this weekend. That is not to say there is no risk of spread, of course there is, but given lines of unmasked police officers were happily there, I feel it is easy to over estimate the dangers.
So yeah, a small risk is there. Which needs to be weighed up on the injustices being fought for. To those who say now is not the time I'd simply ask when is it time? Cos for years police brutality has gone unchallenged by those same voices. Correct if I am wrong here but I must have missed Pritti Patel speaking out against police racism or lack of accountability in the UK police force.
It could be a moment in history when fundamental changes were brought in. A moment when people may ask what side were you on? What side did you march for, which side did you actively support?
And to say or do nothing is to side with the status quo. Which is to side with those who hold and abuse their power. And to stay home isn't something I judge appropriate for me or my conscience.
There is only 1 way to deal with bullies, and that is to look them in the face and say "Fck you". In whatever form they come. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 8:33]
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http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html
To quote MLK who complained about the white moderate "who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice"
Of course this was written at a time when there no virus that effects BAME people, but I think he would be encpuraging peaceful marching irrespective. | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:03 - Jun 8 with 4401 views | bluelagos |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:01 - Jun 8 by lowhouseblue |
what is the evidence of current police racism in the uk?
(cos a disproportionate number of black people being arrested, or in prison, or being subject to stop and search etc may well be due to many bad things - structural inequality, age distribution, the nature of where people live - rather than racism by the police). |
Stop and search stats are easy to find.
(As ever out cycling so will leave you to it for a few hours) | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:04 - Jun 8 with 4398 views | Reuser_is_God |
I'm more concerned with those turning these protests into a riot to be honest.
The Ipswich BLM protest seems to have gone down extremely well & peacefully, contrast that to London which has been an utter disgrace. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:07 - Jun 8 with 4369 views | lowhouseblue |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:03 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
Stop and search stats are easy to find.
(As ever out cycling so will leave you to it for a few hours) |
but stop and search data can be explained by factors other than racism. knife crime, drug crime, gang crime are part of a bigger picture which may explain the stop and search data. it isn't necessarily due to simple racism. structural inequality is complex. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:09 - Jun 8 with 4356 views | Pinewoodblue |
| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 by itfcjoe |
It's a difficult one.
Things like this generally can't be planned because they are set up from trigger points that no one knows are coming, in this case the murder of George Floyd, so the timing can never be exact.
But the timing couldn't be worse.
We have a Govt, like in the US, who are only interested in a Culture War. Covid was a problem that actually had to be governed, not just blamed on one set of people and the Government were totally floundering with it as can only try and control news cycles.
But now, any spike is the fault of Black Lives Matters protesters, with a handy target for their base of the BAME community and the 'lefties' or 'libs' or whatever they are called now.
If it rises from here, it won't be because beaches have previously been packed, or lockdown effectively gone due to Cummings, or schools reopened, or transport numbers rising as work starts again.....it will all be to do with these protests, and when R was barely below 1 as it was this is dangerous.
Looking at it with no emotion, and as a white man, then they shouldn't have happened because it gives the Government an out for their actions by allowing them to try and reopen the Culture War they, like Trump, will spend their whole term trying to play with their divisive politics that have got them here.
But, obviously not that simple |
There are no doubt a number of groups who had plans drawn up waiting for a suitable trigger. The destruction of the statue in Bristol for example and the evening activity around Westminster.
Government cannot escape responsibility should the number of Covid-19 Cases spike. Nor can the public at large. There really is no difference between Cummings actions and each and every protestor convincing themselves that the cause warranted the risk.
We are all fools in our own way.
I take a different view to, I suspect, most as far as statues that glory in the past. When we have a fairer society we need them to be there to remind us of past mistakes in much the same way we need reminders as to the futility of war.
Hopefully we will move on from BLM and look at social injustice in general there are so many disadvantaged groups. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:10 - Jun 8 with 4351 views | ITFC_Forever |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:04 - Jun 8 by Reuser_is_God |
I'm more concerned with those turning these protests into a riot to be honest.
The Ipswich BLM protest seems to have gone down extremely well & peacefully, contrast that to London which has been an utter disgrace. |
Unfortunately, as with most protests, the protests start off with the best of intentions (and good luck to them), but there's an element of society who see it as an excuse to somehow legitimise pure hooliganism, and they turn up and cause havoc.
The protest is then remembered for the trouble, and not the point they were trying to make in the first place. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:12 - Jun 8 with 4336 views | Reuser_is_God |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:10 - Jun 8 by ITFC_Forever |
Unfortunately, as with most protests, the protests start off with the best of intentions (and good luck to them), but there's an element of society who see it as an excuse to somehow legitimise pure hooliganism, and they turn up and cause havoc.
The protest is then remembered for the trouble, and not the point they were trying to make in the first place. |
Indeed, which is exactly what has happened with BLM.
Such a shame. | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:20 - Jun 8 with 4317 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| UK BLM protest images on 08:32 - Jun 8 by bluelagos |
Couple of thoughts, I think as the only attender of the BLM protests on here (or the only one willing to admit to it)
Of course the virus is upper mind in people's minds, indeed I saw way more masks being worn at the Ipswich demo than I ever have inside a supermarket. The same applied to the London protesters from what I saw on Tv.
Also, the protests were outside, which is recognised as lower risk. And the number of infected is now around 1 in a 1000 (latest figures) so while clear breaches of social distancing happened, I think it was collectively way less than say happened in national branches of supermarkets this weekend. That is not to say there is no risk of spread, of course there is, but given lines of unmasked police officers were happily there, I feel it is easy to over estimate the dangers.
So yeah, a small risk is there. Which needs to be weighed up on the injustices being fought for. To those who say now is not the time I'd simply ask when is it time? Cos for years police brutality has gone unchallenged by those same voices. Correct if I am wrong here but I must have missed Pritti Patel speaking out against police racism or lack of accountability in the UK police force.
It could be a moment in history when fundamental changes were brought in. A moment when people may ask what side were you on? What side did you march for, which side did you actively support?
And to say or do nothing is to side with the status quo. Which is to side with those who hold and abuse their power. And to stay home isn't something I judge appropriate for me or my conscience.
There is only 1 way to deal with bullies, and that is to look them in the face and say "Fck you". In whatever form they come. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 8:33]
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I think you will see an inevitable spike in Covid cases, with the amount of mass gatherings occurring over the weekend in particular, and mentioned this on another thread.
I'm in total support of Black Lives Matter movement, I am a white individual myself, and have number black friends who are some of the most kind, loyal humans I've ever met, I would be there along side them in a instant if Covid-19 was no existent, but I didn't feel comfortable being in such huge crowds right now and they knew this.
Judging be the Ipswich crowd, it was a mass gathering with quite close proximity, but these protestors must know the risk when joining these gatherings, and unfortunately the law of averages and the logic of science would suggest there will be a spike in cases in the near future after the nation-wide protests. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 9:20]
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:21 - Jun 8 with 4312 views | ElephantintheRoom |
The irony is what is missing from these protests.
In the USA, where this protest has undeniable merit and for now at least is propelling a sense of imminent change - they are blithely ignoring the annihilation of the indigenous american people
In the UK where it is largely unjustifed and self-indulgent - I cant remember many USA protests in support of Dalian Atkinson for example - they are blithely ignoring the fact that this country gained its wealth from centuries of appropriating other peoples' countries and enslavement on a 'world-leading' global scale - and was still anxious to promote empire and all it entailed as recently as WW2
Not sure where you draw the line for right-on protests... Colston probably belongs in the harbour.... but Churchill is untouchable despite being a vile person who amongst many things actively campaigned to deny women the vote. Everyone is a person of their times. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 09:32 - Jun 8 with 4256 views | Simonds92 |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:12 - Jun 8 by Reuser_is_God |
Indeed, which is exactly what has happened with BLM.
Such a shame. |
Are you referring to the incident where the police tried rushing the protesters on horses? As i haven't seen anything else in regard to violence ( i may be wrong). This was originally on social media indicating protesters were throwing things at police, knocking one of them unconscious. This was until a subsequent video showed that during the attempted rush, said police office managed to take themselves out via a traffic light. | | | |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:36 - Jun 8 with 4240 views | 26_Paz |
The criminal damage bothers me more than the corona breaches in all honesty ... why are they allowed to do this? |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:01 - Jun 8 with 4176 views | lowhouseblue |
but then both of those articles are in the context of very positive policies being enacted to reduce institutional racism and increase diversity. it seems an entirely different picture from policing in the us - the comparisons are very weak. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:08 - Jun 8 with 4146 views | Reuser_is_God |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:32 - Jun 8 by Simonds92 |
Are you referring to the incident where the police tried rushing the protesters on horses? As i haven't seen anything else in regard to violence ( i may be wrong). This was originally on social media indicating protesters were throwing things at police, knocking one of them unconscious. This was until a subsequent video showed that during the attempted rush, said police office managed to take themselves out via a traffic light. |
There have been plenty of videos of violence towards police officers in London ever since the protests started. | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:11 - Jun 8 with 4132 views | ITFC_Forever |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:32 - Jun 8 by Simonds92 |
Are you referring to the incident where the police tried rushing the protesters on horses? As i haven't seen anything else in regard to violence ( i may be wrong). This was originally on social media indicating protesters were throwing things at police, knocking one of them unconscious. This was until a subsequent video showed that during the attempted rush, said police office managed to take themselves out via a traffic light. |
Wasn't the one that was taken out by a traffic light because the horse bolted as it was so frightened of what was going on? | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:11 - Jun 8 with 4132 views | DanTheMan |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:36 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
The criminal damage bothers me more than the corona breaches in all honesty ... why are they allowed to do this? |
I'd like to understand why people potentially dying is less important to you than criminal damage, as that seems really bizarre to me. |  |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:11 - Jun 8 with 4126 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 09:36 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
The criminal damage bothers me more than the corona breaches in all honesty ... why are they allowed to do this? |
While there are no doubt opportunists I think you have to trust in good faith that the majority of those committing criminal damage are doing so in extreme frustration at the lack of action that is taken from peaceful protest.
Young men who are full of testosterone and resentment towards those that have oppressed them, their families, their friends for generation after generation.
There are clear and obvious counter arguments as to why smashing the windows on your own high street could be seen as counter productive but in my opinion they pale in significance compared to the weight of the collective suffering that systemic/systematic racism does to millions of people on a daily basis across the world. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 10:28]
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:28 - Jun 8 with 4076 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 10:11 - Jun 8 by DanTheMan |
I'd like to understand why people potentially dying is less important to you than criminal damage, as that seems really bizarre to me. |
The virus is the virus, it isn't going to go away ... smashing up someone's property (who in all liklihood has nothing to do with what you're angry about) is just stupid, the police letting them do it is very worrying. | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:29 - Jun 8 with 4067 views | 26_Paz |
| UK BLM protest images on 10:11 - Jun 8 by Libero |
While there are no doubt opportunists I think you have to trust in good faith that the majority of those committing criminal damage are doing so in extreme frustration at the lack of action that is taken from peaceful protest.
Young men who are full of testosterone and resentment towards those that have oppressed them, their families, their friends for generation after generation.
There are clear and obvious counter arguments as to why smashing the windows on your own high street could be seen as counter productive but in my opinion they pale in significance compared to the weight of the collective suffering that systemic/systematic racism does to millions of people on a daily basis across the world. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 10:28]
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Wait until its your windows they're smashing ... | |
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| UK BLM protest images on 10:31 - Jun 8 with 4059 views | Libero |
| UK BLM protest images on 10:29 - Jun 8 by 26_Paz |
Wait until its your windows they're smashing ... |
While you're going about illustrating your point in a needlessly antagonist and disingenuous manner, you do have somewhat of a point.
I suspect if I had invested my life savings into a business and it was being smashed up I'd most certainly have a more emotional response, regardless the facts would still be the facts and my personal loss would be significantly less than that suffered by generation after generation of BAME people.
One man's freedom fight is another man's terrorist and all that. [Post edited 8 Jun 2020 10:38]
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