| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference 09:43 - Jun 10 with 5065 views | clive_baker |
And I'm sure this won't be popular, but I've decided I'll be cancelling my season ticket if Lambert isn't removed from his post. What I really think we need is both a new 1st team manager and an experienced DoF in role too. Frankly it's a circus at the moment with Lambert, Taylor and O'Neil. None of them have a pedigree of note to justify their existence in their respective roles. Lambert more so, but his tenure here has never got going, and doesn't threaten to.
The club isn't a charity, and I feel less inclined to treat it as such the less it acts like one. It's been run as a business first and foremost in recent years, balancing financial sustainability with competitiveness in the market, and for that I don't blame Evans one jot. I've said as much in the past, the way of the Derby's of this world isn't responsible football club ownership and it's destined to go pop for a lot of clubs. But that comes with consequences, and it's felt increasingly like a 1 way street for me, by way of loyalty, which wears thin after a while.
The lack of leadership I've witnessed run throughout the club over the past few years is a disgrace, and as much as it pains me I'm not prepared to be a part of it until things change. I'll always support this club, but if we're kicking off next season with the same clowns in charge, I'll feel less compelled to financially support the regime than I ever have before. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 09:57 - Jun 10 with 3850 views | Funge |
Great post - regardless of whether others will share your stance, the arguments put forward are sound, and difficult to counter.
Unsurprisingly, I'm in agreement with you.
I genuinely think that the only way forward for us is 'survival of the fittest'- perhaps, desperately, somehow, our relative parsimony over the last 6-7 years will see us survive post-COVID, as others go bust. Derby are a prime example of all that is wrong with football outside of the Premier League (and thus, by association, all that is wrong with football inside it too).
The question is - is what's going to be left, worth indulging? I don't think it will be. |  | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:29 - Jun 10 with 3754 views | itfcjoe |
I can understand why anyone who doesn't live locally wouldn't bother to commit, it's a very different beast when it is on your doorstep like it is mine.
I just listened to Lambert on the radio and feel so unenthused by it all.
Starting a season when the manager is unpopular, and on a short leash is depressing, you know that any bad result, or blip is going to be seen as a crisis and it's untenable as a situation.
Whatever we say with regards to pedigree of Lee O'Neill, he needs support if he is doing that role. If he has shown Evans enough as Academy Manager to be effectively a DoF then he needs to be replaced as an Academy Manager to allow him to focus on his new role. He's basically doing his old role, Ian Milne's role and a larger role across the footballing side of things.........whatever your capabilities are you aren't going to succeed in that position without support to recruit some help. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:36 - Jun 10 with 3700 views | ArnieM |
I think the coming season ( whenever it starts), will be a watershed for all concerned at ITFC. Get it wrong now ( eg continue to repeat the same old mistakes ), and it’ll be curtains for this once great Club. There will literally be nothing left to support anymore.
Last chance saloon just opened .. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:41 - Jun 10 with 3666 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Im With you CB. Ive said on another post. If he's here for pre season whenever that is. Im off.
I cannot stomach watching this dross anymore. Th club needs a serious restructure and that restructure needs to be explained to us as fans. Just give us some hope. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:45 - Jun 10 with 3646 views | N2_Blue |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 09:57 - Jun 10 by Funge |
Great post - regardless of whether others will share your stance, the arguments put forward are sound, and difficult to counter.
Unsurprisingly, I'm in agreement with you.
I genuinely think that the only way forward for us is 'survival of the fittest'- perhaps, desperately, somehow, our relative parsimony over the last 6-7 years will see us survive post-COVID, as others go bust. Derby are a prime example of all that is wrong with football outside of the Premier League (and thus, by association, all that is wrong with football inside it too).
The question is - is what's going to be left, worth indulging? I don't think it will be. |
I think Town (along with many other clubs) are going to have a shock when it comes to season ticket sales for the next season.
- COVID-19 and the economic situation will strain individuals finances.
- Those that currently have spare income may decide to prioritise other things in case job is at risk rather than cough up for a ST.
- We have just finished mid-table in third tier of English football, that'll take a few hundred if not thousands off the gate and ST numbers.
- An extended break from football may leave some yearning for it but equally as many (such as myself) have really not missed it at all and i don't feel any great pull to go and watch us currently (sad times).
- We have a larger than average ST support that are not living locally and i get the impression the travel for many long-term fan is becoming less justifiable based on the dire performances year after year no matter what level we drop to.
- We have an owner that many have lost faith in (if they ever had it) to ever get this club upwardly mobile.
- We have a manager who has failed in his two seasons, led us to our lowest finish in 60 odd years and seemingly seems absolutely lost with this squad and tactically inept.
- There is generally no plan or structure around the club to hint at any positivity and further decline is very possible.
Bright lights such as Downes, Wolfenden etc are very much likely not to be lining up in a Town shirt at the start of the next season.
It really would not surprise me if our ST's fell to less than 7 or 8k for next season. If Marcus isn't planning for that he's going to have a nasty shock.
Writing this post makes me generally fear for the club I love. Just when we think it can't get any lower we seem to revel in making a mess of everything. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:50 - Jun 10 with 3598 views | Kieran_Knows |
Like a tw*t, I've just let me ST run over for the new season and for the life of me I can't think why. I haven't enjoyed going for about 3 seasons now (Mick's last, start of Hurst reign, Championship relegation than this sh*t show of a season).
You're right, it is a circus. Whilst it has been a complete shambles on the pitch, with Lambert the sole reason for that, I'm still baffled by Evans & O'Neill. It's as bad off the pitch as on it. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:55 - Jun 10 with 3567 views | BlueBadger |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 10:36 - Jun 10 by ArnieM |
I think the coming season ( whenever it starts), will be a watershed for all concerned at ITFC. Get it wrong now ( eg continue to repeat the same old mistakes ), and it’ll be curtains for this once great Club. There will literally be nothing left to support anymore.
Last chance saloon just opened .. |
One way or another, the going season is the endgame for Evans' current strategy. He'll have to either change or die. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 11:21 - Jun 10 with 3466 views | Guthrum |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 09:57 - Jun 10 by Funge |
Great post - regardless of whether others will share your stance, the arguments put forward are sound, and difficult to counter.
Unsurprisingly, I'm in agreement with you.
I genuinely think that the only way forward for us is 'survival of the fittest'- perhaps, desperately, somehow, our relative parsimony over the last 6-7 years will see us survive post-COVID, as others go bust. Derby are a prime example of all that is wrong with football outside of the Premier League (and thus, by association, all that is wrong with football inside it too).
The question is - is what's going to be left, worth indulging? I don't think it will be. |
With regards to what's left, I'm a litte bit more positive.
We could be seeing a situation where the top Prem and Champ sides sail off into some financially insulated bubble marketed primarily at the Far East, while the rest of football reverts to something more like it was 120 years ago - a largely amateur game with limited mass support.
But that provides its own set of opportunities. Once again, deft and innovative managerial ability can come to the fore rather than the ability to simply buy talent and deploy it. Careful owners of limited means can once again become involved in the sport (people like the Cobbolds could never have done so in recent years). Unfashionable clubs can rise to the top through performances, rather than just having their best players plundered by the wealthy.
Much of football will be diminished, but also have a chance to rebuild the connection with fans who have become disillusioned at the rule of money and the inequality of its distribution. |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 11:36 - Jun 10 with 3411 views | tractorboy1978 |
Second paragraph in particular is spot on and something I've been juggling in my own head for a while. The club seems to be a business when it suits but then also wants to be a charity of sorts when it suits as well. As I mentioned yesterday, they will no doubt be trying to persuade fans to write off ST refunds, saying the money will go directly into the academy or encouraging other forms of compensation shortly.
We haven't had numbers announced yet but a lot of fans have dug into their pockets and started paying DD's for next season too - with no idea what format that season will take. This is at the same time that as far as I am aware the players/management team have taken no pay cut/deferral. |  | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 11:46 - Jun 10 with 3380 views | BrixtonBlue |
I fully understand your position and why you feel this way. Can I ask, do you think everyone should do the same? |  |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:07 - Jun 10 with 3315 views | rfretwell |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 11:46 - Jun 10 by BrixtonBlue |
I fully understand your position and why you feel this way. Can I ask, do you think everyone should do the same? |
Valid thoughts of course but I'm amazed that there are quite a few here on TWTD who dont seem to have the Town in their hearts. They make the effort to come on here, presumably read through various threads then say they haven't missed football during the lockdown! Cant get my head around it personally. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:10 - Jun 10 with 3303 views | portmanking |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:07 - Jun 10 by rfretwell |
Valid thoughts of course but I'm amazed that there are quite a few here on TWTD who dont seem to have the Town in their hearts. They make the effort to come on here, presumably read through various threads then say they haven't missed football during the lockdown! Cant get my head around it personally. |
How long do you go on letting your heart rule your head though? A lot of us are reaching a tipping point. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:22 - Jun 10 with 3257 views | rfretwell |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:10 - Jun 10 by portmanking |
How long do you go on letting your heart rule your head though? A lot of us are reaching a tipping point. |
Well what's the end game? We all give up on the club ? Just let it die? PL is absolutely correct on one thing - the club needs the fans backing. Who knows when we will rise again? Wolves fans must have felt even worse when they were in div 4. Div 4!!! It seems unbelievable now. But they signed Steve Bull, he scored for fun all through the divisions and brought the good times back. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:29 - Jun 10 with 3231 views | portmanking |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:22 - Jun 10 by rfretwell |
Well what's the end game? We all give up on the club ? Just let it die? PL is absolutely correct on one thing - the club needs the fans backing. Who knows when we will rise again? Wolves fans must have felt even worse when they were in div 4. Div 4!!! It seems unbelievable now. But they signed Steve Bull, he scored for fun all through the divisions and brought the good times back. |
Sorry, but it's very naive to hark back to the late 1980s. The game as it was then was just that - a game. You could build a team over several years without the threat of vultures circling. Now, it's a business. There's no going back from this for football. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:42 - Jun 10 with 3182 views | Sarge |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:07 - Jun 10 by rfretwell |
Valid thoughts of course but I'm amazed that there are quite a few here on TWTD who dont seem to have the Town in their hearts. They make the effort to come on here, presumably read through various threads then say they haven't missed football during the lockdown! Cant get my head around it personally. |
Believe me it’s easier when you weren’t born for any of the club’s past successes. That coupled with not living in the town and having only witnessed us finish in the top 6 of any league once in my life it becomes pretty easy to disregard football. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:50 - Jun 10 with 3145 views | rfretwell |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:29 - Jun 10 by portmanking |
Sorry, but it's very naive to hark back to the late 1980s. The game as it was then was just that - a game. You could build a team over several years without the threat of vultures circling. Now, it's a business. There's no going back from this for football. |
The vultures have always been out there. Look at Brentford. They lose first teamers season after season but are fantastic at recruitment to replace them. We completely ballsed that up after MM left. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:51 - Jun 10 with 3146 views | clive_baker |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 11:46 - Jun 10 by BrixtonBlue |
I fully understand your position and why you feel this way. Can I ask, do you think everyone should do the same? |
I think everyone should do how they see fit. Everyone's circumstances are different.
If I lived next door maybe I would feel different, but you're talking the best part of a £100 expense per game for me when you factor in travel, which I do c. 25 times a season home & away. Couple that with the fact it takes up a lot of my Saturdays, and with a little one now it doesn't have the appeal it did. The apathy that the mismanagement has helped to create is a factor, but not the only one. | |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:51 - Jun 10 with 3142 views | Funge |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:22 - Jun 10 by rfretwell |
Well what's the end game? We all give up on the club ? Just let it die? PL is absolutely correct on one thing - the club needs the fans backing. Who knows when we will rise again? Wolves fans must have felt even worse when they were in div 4. Div 4!!! It seems unbelievable now. But they signed Steve Bull, he scored for fun all through the divisions and brought the good times back. |
I admire your optimism, and wish I shared it - truly, I wish I do.
However, I don't know if the Wolves analogy is apt. To apply it here - ITFC would look to build a team around Flynn Downes, Woolfenden and KVY; we would have a genuine 5-year plan centred around these 3 excellent young players, and look to grow and build around them; like Wolves did with Bull.
The reality, however, is that Downes will go to the PL for £3m shortly, Woolf will follow him for £1.5m, and KVY will probably depart at the next transfer window for a few million more.
Meanwhile, we are left with dear old Chambo, Jon Nolan and Freddie Sears - erstwhile players, certainly, but not the future. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:54 - Jun 10 with 3115 views | Funge |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 11:46 - Jun 10 by BrixtonBlue |
I fully understand your position and why you feel this way. Can I ask, do you think everyone should do the same? |
FWIW, people can spend their money however they like, I think.
That said, I can completely understand why, after the remarkable season we've just had, and O'Neill's comments yesterday, that this would be the latest watershed for a section of our fanbase to say 'Enough's enough'.
It's a horrid place to be, but, let's face it, we've been travelling here for a while.
I take no pleasure in airing my viewpoint here. [Post edited 10 Jun 2020 12:58]
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:04 - Jun 10 with 3058 views | RegencyBlue |
Lambert has been a massive disappointment, to say the least, but for me it won’t ultimately make any difference who’s in the dugout.
Evans is the problem. Over nearly 13 years he’s shown that he doesn’t have a clue how to run a football club on or off the pitch. It’s his club, he bought it so he can do what he wants with it, but I decided I was no longer prepared to pay for the privilege of watching it being destroyed.
That’s why I’ve cancelled my season tickets and why I won’t be back until Evans is gone. |  | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:11 - Jun 10 with 3022 views | BrixtonBlue |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:51 - Jun 10 by clive_baker |
I think everyone should do how they see fit. Everyone's circumstances are different.
If I lived next door maybe I would feel different, but you're talking the best part of a £100 expense per game for me when you factor in travel, which I do c. 25 times a season home & away. Couple that with the fact it takes up a lot of my Saturdays, and with a little one now it doesn't have the appeal it did. The apathy that the mismanagement has helped to create is a factor, but not the only one. |
Fair enough, it's hard to disagree with any of your points.
I want to make a point but I'm trying hard not to start rows anymore. This isn't an attack on you personally, and as I've said, your points are all very good ones. But it's fair to say, is it not, that you're basically expecting the rest of us to fund the club while you're gone, then you'll come back again when/if success returns?
I mean, I don't know what the answer is because nothing you've said is wrong, and you're of course entitled to do whatever you want with your time and money, but my point is true as well isn't it?
I'd probably be more in your camp as well if it weren't for the fact that my main friendship group, people who I've known for decades and have been on holidays with, are my footy mates. If it weren't for them I'm sure I'd be a lot less inclined to go myself. So I can totally see where you're coming from. | |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:14 - Jun 10 with 2995 views | BrixtonBlue |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 12:29 - Jun 10 by portmanking |
Sorry, but it's very naive to hark back to the late 1980s. The game as it was then was just that - a game. You could build a team over several years without the threat of vultures circling. Now, it's a business. There's no going back from this for football. |
It's not just the 80s. Teams like Bournemouth, Sheffield Utd and Southampton have worked their way up the leagues. | |
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:29 - Jun 10 with 2959 views | clive_baker |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:11 - Jun 10 by BrixtonBlue |
Fair enough, it's hard to disagree with any of your points.
I want to make a point but I'm trying hard not to start rows anymore. This isn't an attack on you personally, and as I've said, your points are all very good ones. But it's fair to say, is it not, that you're basically expecting the rest of us to fund the club while you're gone, then you'll come back again when/if success returns?
I mean, I don't know what the answer is because nothing you've said is wrong, and you're of course entitled to do whatever you want with your time and money, but my point is true as well isn't it?
I'd probably be more in your camp as well if it weren't for the fact that my main friendship group, people who I've known for decades and have been on holidays with, are my footy mates. If it weren't for them I'm sure I'd be a lot less inclined to go myself. So I can totally see where you're coming from. |
Mate, don't worry about offending me, it's not easy to do! I like open and honest discussion, its healthy and you've always struck me as one of the good ones on here.
I think it depends how people view the club. Ultimately, it's not a charity, and the less it behaves like one and a valuable community asset, the less I feel compelled to treat it like one. It's a strange one because there's obviously a loyalty there that I don't have with any other 'business', if you look at it in the crudest sense. If Tesco annoyed me I would go to Sainsbury's. In any other walk of life the club would've died from its mismanagement. It's still here because a group of c. 10,000 people are loyal to it and support it for other reasons, which I've done in bucket loads. But it has to feel mutual, or it start to take its toll. If I donate to a charity that's close to my heart, I know it's doing some good. I'm at a point now where I don't really feel that, nor do I really enjoy the 'product'. It's neither one nor the other. Accepting last seasons failures and rewarding them with yet another chance, and funding another year of excuses and spiky press conferences is the straw to break the camels back for me. As I said, it's only 1 factor, and perhaps coupled with wider circumstances I'm now in has all come together at the same time.
I would rather people don't feel like I do to be fair, because selfishly of course I would miss the club if it's not there. There's a middle ground where frankly I would rather write the club a cheque for £200 a year and not go, but that feels like a bit of a joke when it's owner appears on the Rich List. [Post edited 10 Jun 2020 13:30]
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| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:51 - Jun 10 with 2901 views | ronnyd |
That's a good and measured post CB. Whether anyone feels the same is purely a personal decision on a number of issues, finances, time constraints, travel, etc. I'm sure an upturn in the goods on offer would, perhaps, bring a change of heart from you and others of a like mind to return at a later date. A bit like after MM left. | | | |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:52 - Jun 10 with 2894 views | JDB23 |
| I don't expect this thread to make a jot of difference on 13:11 - Jun 10 by BrixtonBlue |
Fair enough, it's hard to disagree with any of your points.
I want to make a point but I'm trying hard not to start rows anymore. This isn't an attack on you personally, and as I've said, your points are all very good ones. But it's fair to say, is it not, that you're basically expecting the rest of us to fund the club while you're gone, then you'll come back again when/if success returns?
I mean, I don't know what the answer is because nothing you've said is wrong, and you're of course entitled to do whatever you want with your time and money, but my point is true as well isn't it?
I'd probably be more in your camp as well if it weren't for the fact that my main friendship group, people who I've known for decades and have been on holidays with, are my footy mates. If it weren't for them I'm sure I'd be a lot less inclined to go myself. So I can totally see where you're coming from. |
You make some valid points but I guess it depends what your view is on whether funding this current administration is actually good for the club or not.
On the face of it, of course giving the club money is a good thing and helps towards running costs, I think there are other angles for consideration. If everyone just carried on attending games every year no matter what then surely that is giving the message to Evans that we are happy with that position? That we are happy for him to continue on like he has done the past 13 years, for him to continue handing out ludicrous contracts to failed manages etc. If he sees fans leaving in their droves then maybe that will be the spark for him to either make a fundamental change to the structure of the club or look to actively sell? That could be the thing that starts to get us finally moving in an upward direction. Is that not more beneficial for the club than giving a joke of a manager an extra million pounds transfer budget?
Of course none of those things I mentioned could actually happen and we could carry on sliding down the leagues, no one has a crystal ball and all the right answers, other than Fishers. I just don't think it's as simple as "supporting your club financially is always the best thing to do no matter what". | | | |
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