| This is ace too... 09:59 - Jun 13 with 1713 views | artsbossbeard |
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| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| This is ace too... on 10:00 - Jun 13 with 1682 views | factual_blue |
Are those aliens, with scary black heads? |  |
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| This is ace too... on 10:20 - Jun 13 with 1609 views | StokieBlue |
Crowd-sourced map of statues up for consideration:
https://www.toppletheracists.org/
Some of them I don't really understand, Peel for instance where there has been acknowledgement that there was confusion with his father but even though that was wrong it should still be removed under the generic "colonisers " tag (even though he lived all his life in England). He formed the police force and pushed through policies reducing the hours women and children could work and increasing safety requirements for machinery. Perhaps I am missing something in his case though, I am not an expert on him by any means.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53005223
SB |  |
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| This is ace too... on 10:39 - Jun 13 with 1564 views | artsbossbeard |
| This is ace too... on 10:20 - Jun 13 by StokieBlue |
Crowd-sourced map of statues up for consideration:
https://www.toppletheracists.org/
Some of them I don't really understand, Peel for instance where there has been acknowledgement that there was confusion with his father but even though that was wrong it should still be removed under the generic "colonisers " tag (even though he lived all his life in England). He formed the police force and pushed through policies reducing the hours women and children could work and increasing safety requirements for machinery. Perhaps I am missing something in his case though, I am not an expert on him by any means.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53005223
SB |
I had a brief look through xenophobic, hate crime enthusiast and Ipswich MP, Tom Hunt's FB page and someone was getting uppity about lefty Ipswich Council taking down statues and renaming roads.
Maybe the roads but I can't think of an inappropriate statue in the area. Happy to be corrected here.
It's also quite interesting from my non-scientific study that he gets loads and loads of stick on twitter but his FB page is a sycophant's wet dream. | |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| This is ace too... on 11:01 - Jun 13 with 1509 views | TractorWood |
That's a summers day in Whitby. These lads really need football back to channel their frustrations through.
Cook was murdered whilst trying to kidnap local royalty. Definitely needs some context around his endeavours.
I think as I wider point we need to educate people and in schools ensure we don't cherry pick British history but retell it with balance. There are generations of Britain's who think we have never done anything wrong whilst pillaging and murdering ourselves an empire. |  |
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| This is ace too... on 11:02 - Jun 13 with 1492 views | BlueBadger |
| This is ace too... on 10:39 - Jun 13 by artsbossbeard |
I had a brief look through xenophobic, hate crime enthusiast and Ipswich MP, Tom Hunt's FB page and someone was getting uppity about lefty Ipswich Council taking down statues and renaming roads.
Maybe the roads but I can't think of an inappropriate statue in the area. Happy to be corrected here.
It's also quite interesting from my non-scientific study that he gets loads and loads of stick on twitter but his FB page is a sycophant's wet dream. |
Matt Hancock's s similar. It's full of simpering gimps telling him what a good job he's doing. |  |
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| This is ace too... on 11:05 - Jun 13 with 1495 views | Guthrum |
| This is ace too... on 10:20 - Jun 13 by StokieBlue |
Crowd-sourced map of statues up for consideration:
https://www.toppletheracists.org/
Some of them I don't really understand, Peel for instance where there has been acknowledgement that there was confusion with his father but even though that was wrong it should still be removed under the generic "colonisers " tag (even though he lived all his life in England). He formed the police force and pushed through policies reducing the hours women and children could work and increasing safety requirements for machinery. Perhaps I am missing something in his case though, I am not an expert on him by any means.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-53005223
SB |
A fad has developed for pulling down statues.
Colston was justified (a slaver), Rhodes too (one of the less pleasant colonisers), but I think now people are indiscriminately looking for any potential targets near them. There's also a degree of trolling, as in nominating statues just to make people worry about their safety.
If we are to destroy all the memorials to anybody who had racist attitudes, that will have to include the gravestones of our own grandparents and great-grandparents. Those were the times, the understanding of how race worked, the science of the day (only since then disproven by genetics). It was even taught in school.
Fine to dismantle memorials to the most egregious examples of people who should not be honoured (like Colston), but by widening it to virtually everybody it dilutes the message and provokes opposition. |  |
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| This is ace too... on 11:05 - Jun 13 with 1487 views | ericclacton |
| This is ace too... on 10:00 - Jun 13 by factual_blue |
Are those aliens, with scary black heads? |
Know they are Mexican tour wrists.
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| This is ace too... on 11:16 - Jun 13 with 1473 views | Guthrum |
| This is ace too... on 11:01 - Jun 13 by TractorWood |
That's a summers day in Whitby. These lads really need football back to channel their frustrations through.
Cook was murdered whilst trying to kidnap local royalty. Definitely needs some context around his endeavours.
I think as I wider point we need to educate people and in schools ensure we don't cherry pick British history but retell it with balance. There are generations of Britain's who think we have never done anything wrong whilst pillaging and murdering ourselves an empire. |
Nothing is ever entirely simple in historical events. He was trying to kidnap the local royalty to get back stuff their people had nicked.
Other strands of popular history suffer from the same thing. Shaka is celebrated as a great king of the Zulu, not some murderous expansionist who formed a militarised dictatorship, drove neighbouring clans from their lands and turned ritualised tribal warfare into a bloodbath.
Everybody likes to promote or do down their own prominent figures. There is no nuanced middle way in which real, rounded (flawed, even) humans act upon a wide variety of motivations - which may have been considered entirely reasonable and rational at the time. | |
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| This is ace too... on 11:22 - Jun 13 with 1434 views | Oldsmoker |
The only thing to fear is fear itself.
When something like this gets into your head then your worst enemy is your own imagination.
I have no sympathy for these good ol' boys. [Post edited 13 Jun 2020 11:23]
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| This is ace too... on 11:43 - Jun 13 with 1380 views | WeWereZombies |
| This is ace too... on 11:16 - Jun 13 by Guthrum |
Nothing is ever entirely simple in historical events. He was trying to kidnap the local royalty to get back stuff their people had nicked.
Other strands of popular history suffer from the same thing. Shaka is celebrated as a great king of the Zulu, not some murderous expansionist who formed a militarised dictatorship, drove neighbouring clans from their lands and turned ritualised tribal warfare into a bloodbath.
Everybody likes to promote or do down their own prominent figures. There is no nuanced middle way in which real, rounded (flawed, even) humans act upon a wide variety of motivations - which may have been considered entirely reasonable and rational at the time. |
The Zulus are an interesting example, some South African historians lay the blame for the demise of the San people firmly at their door rather than at that of the British Empire. Another tribe are still engaged in a sometimes cordial but in the past quite bitter battle with the Zulus over land they assert that they arrived in a mere fifty years later, that tribe of course is the Afrikaners.
Also, be careful not to mention this to Spruce and Brixton et al, there was a West African empire that indulged in quite a lot of slave trading too:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jvqr |  |
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| This is ace too... on 11:44 - Jun 13 with 1378 views | TractorWood |
| This is ace too... on 11:16 - Jun 13 by Guthrum |
Nothing is ever entirely simple in historical events. He was trying to kidnap the local royalty to get back stuff their people had nicked.
Other strands of popular history suffer from the same thing. Shaka is celebrated as a great king of the Zulu, not some murderous expansionist who formed a militarised dictatorship, drove neighbouring clans from their lands and turned ritualised tribal warfare into a bloodbath.
Everybody likes to promote or do down their own prominent figures. There is no nuanced middle way in which real, rounded (flawed, even) humans act upon a wide variety of motivations - which may have been considered entirely reasonable and rational at the time. |
Exactly. Context is important but arguably undermines the veniration in the first place so it's unlikely that a statue will ever get unveiled with a list of caveats.
I suspect there won't be any BoJo statues when he is judged by history. | |
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| This is ace too... on 11:55 - Jun 13 with 1362 views | Swansea_Blue |
Only last week half of this lot were probably wanging on about how people campaign for black people to be treated as equals were wilfully spreading Covid-19. Now look at them swarming over some concrete and brass.
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| This is ace too... on 12:04 - Jun 13 with 1336 views | factual_blue |
| This is ace too... on 11:55 - Jun 13 by Swansea_Blue |
Only last week half of this lot were probably wanging on about how people campaign for black people to be treated as equals were wilfully spreading Covid-19. Now look at them swarming over some concrete and brass.
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Good to see them defending a monument to all our war dead, including those from Crown Colonies and India. | |
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| This is ace too... on 12:10 - Jun 13 with 1308 views | factual_blue |
| This is ace too... on 11:16 - Jun 13 by Guthrum |
Nothing is ever entirely simple in historical events. He was trying to kidnap the local royalty to get back stuff their people had nicked.
Other strands of popular history suffer from the same thing. Shaka is celebrated as a great king of the Zulu, not some murderous expansionist who formed a militarised dictatorship, drove neighbouring clans from their lands and turned ritualised tribal warfare into a bloodbath.
Everybody likes to promote or do down their own prominent figures. There is no nuanced middle way in which real, rounded (flawed, even) humans act upon a wide variety of motivations - which may have been considered entirely reasonable and rational at the time. |
This is what you get from goal-oriented, poorly-research history.
It's the sort of approach that brings you the books by boris and cardinal mogg, whose books (on Churchill and Victorians respectively) were absolutely panned by proper historians. Professor Sir Richard Evans on boris's book is an absolute hoot; 'The book reads as if it was dictated, not written. All the way through we hear Boris's voice; it’s like being cornered in the Drones Club and harangued for hours by Bertie Wooster.' | |
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| This is ace too... on 15:28 - Jun 13 with 1177 views | Guthrum |
| This is ace too... on 11:44 - Jun 13 by TractorWood |
Exactly. Context is important but arguably undermines the veniration in the first place so it's unlikely that a statue will ever get unveiled with a list of caveats.
I suspect there won't be any BoJo statues when he is judged by history. |
Much as in the Roman Republic, statues have been until relatively recently a testament to success and wealth rather than virtue (in the modern sense of the word).
Colston in an interesting example. The statue was not put up until nearly 175 years after his death, by a group of men who used the leverage of his large charitable trusts benefitting the city of Bristol to promote a hagiographic mythology which bore little relation to the real man or his actions. | |
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| This is ace too... on 22:32 - Jun 13 with 1003 views | Melford |
This reminds of me of when I studied history A Level 20 years ago. It was British history from Trafalgar until the end of Queen Victoria in 1901. I was very Wolfie Smith in those days and was vocal in denouncing my country for doing all these awful things to people.
One day my history teacher took me aside for a chat and said don't judge the actions of people back then though the values of today, of course it's wrong by today's standards but back then it was seen as normal and commonplace. That was a big lesson for me and one that's always stuck with me when it comes to things like this. |  |
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