| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:18 - Jun 23 with 933 views | Libero |
That's some turn around from his previous stance.
I remember when he and Titus put their views across originally Emile Heskey absolutely caned them, and rightly so.
Well done Kieron, well said. |  | |  |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:46 - Jun 23 with 899 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:18 - Jun 23 by Libero |
That's some turn around from his previous stance.
I remember when he and Titus put their views across originally Emile Heskey absolutely caned them, and rightly so.
Well done Kieron, well said. |
listening to the whole thing though, he/they say that the Rooney rule is pretty pointless, due to the loopholes. I think they are right, it becomes a box-ticking exercise.
I personally don't think that the Rooney rule is something that will create a big change. I think the change needs to be cultural and it needs to be from the fans.
I want Dyer to be our next manager because
- He knows the clubs, which should give him an advantage in already knowing things that need to change.
- He competed at the top level, under top managers
- He comes across as intelligent
- He is an Ipswich lad and therefore should be given more freedom to make mistakes.
- He is young and seems to have fresh ideas.
- We are a League one club and I don't think we should be going after expensive managerial journeymen.
- Every manager at this level will have risks, we need a serious DoF to mitigate such risks. Bringing on Dyer should force such a change in structure.
Probably more reasons I can't think of right now. But the reasons aren't the main point. If we want to see change and we believe that Dyer would be great for this club, we as fan need to be consistent and vocal about it. |  |
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| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:52 - Jun 23 with 889 views | Libero |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:46 - Jun 23 by Kropotkin123 |
listening to the whole thing though, he/they say that the Rooney rule is pretty pointless, due to the loopholes. I think they are right, it becomes a box-ticking exercise.
I personally don't think that the Rooney rule is something that will create a big change. I think the change needs to be cultural and it needs to be from the fans.
I want Dyer to be our next manager because
- He knows the clubs, which should give him an advantage in already knowing things that need to change.
- He competed at the top level, under top managers
- He comes across as intelligent
- He is an Ipswich lad and therefore should be given more freedom to make mistakes.
- He is young and seems to have fresh ideas.
- We are a League one club and I don't think we should be going after expensive managerial journeymen.
- Every manager at this level will have risks, we need a serious DoF to mitigate such risks. Bringing on Dyer should force such a change in structure.
Probably more reasons I can't think of right now. But the reasons aren't the main point. If we want to see change and we believe that Dyer would be great for this club, we as fan need to be consistent and vocal about it. |
Ah, I've just read the article, haven't seen the video clip as at work currently. I'll give it a look this evening. | | | |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:06 - Jun 23 with 874 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:52 - Jun 23 by Libero |
Ah, I've just read the article, haven't seen the video clip as at work currently. I'll give it a look this evening. |
The article is right in so much as he would like it because there are big problems, but they then go on to say the Rooney rule has been around for ages and it doesn't make much difference. One person of non-white ethnicity gets an interview, and they don't hire them. Or they don't create a list, they just go after one person (who is white) and don't need to interview someone who isn't white.
It's interesting. There is more on other aspects of race, such as the media's use of discourse to frame black people in different ways to white despite doing the same things, the use of racism within arguments, clubs using non-white players when white players are accused, and more. | |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:08 - Jun 23 with 872 views | Libero |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:06 - Jun 23 by Kropotkin123 |
The article is right in so much as he would like it because there are big problems, but they then go on to say the Rooney rule has been around for ages and it doesn't make much difference. One person of non-white ethnicity gets an interview, and they don't hire them. Or they don't create a list, they just go after one person (who is white) and don't need to interview someone who isn't white.
It's interesting. There is more on other aspects of race, such as the media's use of discourse to frame black people in different ways to white despite doing the same things, the use of racism within arguments, clubs using non-white players when white players are accused, and more. |
Is Laurence McKenna in the video? He might be the sidekick but I enjoy him more than I do True Geordie. | | | |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:30 - Jun 23 with 841 views | sparks |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:06 - Jun 23 by Kropotkin123 |
The article is right in so much as he would like it because there are big problems, but they then go on to say the Rooney rule has been around for ages and it doesn't make much difference. One person of non-white ethnicity gets an interview, and they don't hire them. Or they don't create a list, they just go after one person (who is white) and don't need to interview someone who isn't white.
It's interesting. There is more on other aspects of race, such as the media's use of discourse to frame black people in different ways to white despite doing the same things, the use of racism within arguments, clubs using non-white players when white players are accused, and more. |
KD is an intriguing prospect for next manager and has impressed me in a number of ways.
The whole black managers thing is not straightforward though. When we were discussing this 10 years ago on here- the "long tail" argument was a proper one. Most managers are in their 50s- and you have to compare with players who are now that age- rather than current proportions...
(TBC- need to work)
That position is shifting- though it is worth noting that even now we are looking at the early 2000s and 90s for typical manager age players. There were certainly fewer black players then than now.
Further, many of them are foreign imports- many of whom do not stay in the country forever. And many of the managers, especially at top echelons are not English, or British- and are coming from other countries. To simply compare numbers of managers with numbers of players is problematic.
[Post edited 23 Jun 2020 13:34]
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| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:41 - Jun 23 with 825 views | Stu_Magoo |
Weirdly, this cropped up whilst chatting with my GF about the wider BLM movement.
Is it actually the business world that holds the ingrained racism here and not the football world?
Coaches have no problem picking BAME players whatsoever but when it comes to getting a managers job, you're not dealing with the football men anymore per se but the CEO/Directors and other business people. In the business world they're used to dealing with people who look like them and so it flows through to the football world (which is usually just part of their wider business anyway) |  |
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| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 14:10 - Jun 23 with 773 views | Darth_Koont |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 13:30 - Jun 23 by sparks |
KD is an intriguing prospect for next manager and has impressed me in a number of ways.
The whole black managers thing is not straightforward though. When we were discussing this 10 years ago on here- the "long tail" argument was a proper one. Most managers are in their 50s- and you have to compare with players who are now that age- rather than current proportions...
(TBC- need to work)
That position is shifting- though it is worth noting that even now we are looking at the early 2000s and 90s for typical manager age players. There were certainly fewer black players then than now.
Further, many of them are foreign imports- many of whom do not stay in the country forever. And many of the managers, especially at top echelons are not English, or British- and are coming from other countries. To simply compare numbers of managers with numbers of players is problematic.
[Post edited 23 Jun 2020 13:34]
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You're sticking to your guns on this but you've been saying the same thing for 10 years - and you would probably have said the same 20 years ago certainly about coaches.
There was a big discrepancy then and there is a massive one now. Which points to perception issues and obstacles (subconscious not necessarily direct racist ones) rather than certain demographic slants. [Post edited 23 Jun 2020 14:11]
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| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 14:44 - Jun 23 with 731 views | rickw |
There are very few ex top players currently managing black or white, so I thought I'd work out exactly how many, so I've had a look at ex Premier league players currently managing who've got their first managerial job in the past decade.
I found 13 of them, 2 black:
Chelsea - Lampard, uncle Harry is influential in him getting Derby job, then Chelsea's transfer ban....
Arsenal - Arteta, ex player and worked with Guardiola
Shef Wed - Monk, Swansea club-man
Shrewsbury - Sam Ricketts, started in non league with Wrexham
Cheltenham - Michael Duff, Burnley academy coach first
Southend - Campbell, top player started a lot lower than his level
Fleetwood - Barton, good player started a lot lower than his level
Fulham - Parker, player who finished his career at a smaller club
Milwall - Rowett, player who finished his career at a smaller club - Burton
MK Dons - Russel Martin, player who finished his career at a smaller club
Charlton - Lee Bowyer, worked his way through the ranks at 1st club
Doncaster - Darren Moore, WBA club-man - worked his way through the ranks
Colchester - McGreal, worked his way through the ranks.
Most of these are just people who were in the right place at the right time, a well thought of big name retiring at a smaller club, then the job becomes available, or coaches who worked up through the ranks at a club.
Dyer has positive links to us and Newcastle, Some other clubs seem to fast-track ex players coaching career, where-as here they've seemed to just go on coaching experience.
I think any ex player given a manger job is a rarity, however the percentage does still look low [Post edited 23 Jun 2020 14:44]
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| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 15:05 - Jun 23 with 700 views | Ryorry |
| Dyer: Lack of Opportunities for Black Coaches a Massive Problem on 12:46 - Jun 23 by Kropotkin123 |
listening to the whole thing though, he/they say that the Rooney rule is pretty pointless, due to the loopholes. I think they are right, it becomes a box-ticking exercise.
I personally don't think that the Rooney rule is something that will create a big change. I think the change needs to be cultural and it needs to be from the fans.
I want Dyer to be our next manager because
- He knows the clubs, which should give him an advantage in already knowing things that need to change.
- He competed at the top level, under top managers
- He comes across as intelligent
- He is an Ipswich lad and therefore should be given more freedom to make mistakes.
- He is young and seems to have fresh ideas.
- We are a League one club and I don't think we should be going after expensive managerial journeymen.
- Every manager at this level will have risks, we need a serious DoF to mitigate such risks. Bringing on Dyer should force such a change in structure.
Probably more reasons I can't think of right now. But the reasons aren't the main point. If we want to see change and we believe that Dyer would be great for this club, we as fan need to be consistent and vocal about it. |
Well if we can't/won't do it here and now in our situation, it's pretty depressing.
Over to you ME - chance for you to show the world & do the right thing! [Post edited 23 Jun 2020 15:08]
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