| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet 15:10 - Jun 25 with 19084 views | tractordownsouth |
Decisive action from Mr Starmer
|  |
| |  |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 12:29 - Jun 26 with 1864 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 11:58 - Jun 26 by GlasgowBlue |
So that made the Israelis more responsible for the killing of George Floyd? |
Try answering what I wrote rather than the ever-present bad faith editorialising. |  |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:05 - Jun 26 with 1743 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 12:29 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
Try answering what I wrote rather than the ever-present bad faith editorialising. |
Stephen Bush speaking about the killing of George Floyd asks the question: "Why should Israel’s security services be treated as more responsible for the killing than those of the United Kingdom or France, or any of the countless forces that use aggressive restraint techniques?"
DK in reply: "Because she'd just returned from Palestine and the Israeli police and secuity [sic] forces lead the way in systemic racism and associated techniques.
It's really not that complicated".
[Post edited 26 Jun 2020 13:10]
|  |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:12 - Jun 26 with 1725 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:05 - Jun 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Stephen Bush speaking about the killing of George Floyd asks the question: "Why should Israel’s security services be treated as more responsible for the killing than those of the United Kingdom or France, or any of the countless forces that use aggressive restraint techniques?"
DK in reply: "Because she'd just returned from Palestine and the Israeli police and secuity [sic] forces lead the way in systemic racism and associated techniques.
It's really not that complicated".
[Post edited 26 Jun 2020 13:10]
|
Stephen Bush used the term "more responsible" not me. Which is his subjective judgement of what Peake meant. I was just addressing the why not UK or France angle.
For me it would be more appropriate to say why Israel is top of mind and not the UK and France. It's not complicated: she had recently returned from Palestine and also the Israelis lead the way in systemic racism and suppression tactics.
But keep insinuating that I think "the Jews" are responsible for George Floyd's death. If that gets you where you need to be. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:26 - Jun 26 with 1677 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:12 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
Stephen Bush used the term "more responsible" not me. Which is his subjective judgement of what Peake meant. I was just addressing the why not UK or France angle.
For me it would be more appropriate to say why Israel is top of mind and not the UK and France. It's not complicated: she had recently returned from Palestine and also the Israelis lead the way in systemic racism and suppression tactics.
But keep insinuating that I think "the Jews" are responsible for George Floyd's death. If that gets you where you need to be. |
i don't really know what you think - but, as stephen bush says, the issue here is with the number of people who manage not to see anti-semitism when that'spolitically convenient for them. for some on the left it is really systematic not seeing. well done to starmer for refusing to tolerate it. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:30 - Jun 26 with 1669 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:26 - Jun 26 by lowhouseblue |
i don't really know what you think - but, as stephen bush says, the issue here is with the number of people who manage not to see anti-semitism when that'spolitically convenient for them. for some on the left it is really systematic not seeing. well done to starmer for refusing to tolerate it. |
You've just sidestepped the point you couldn't address to make another baseless insinuation.
And "politically convenient"!?? Coming from you!!??  | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:36 - Jun 26 with 1641 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:30 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
You've just sidestepped the point you couldn't address to make another baseless insinuation.
And "politically convenient"!?? Coming from you!!?? |
you had a point?
long bailey 'didn't see' the anti-semitic conspiracy nonsense.
you as ever don't see a problem. same old same old. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:42 - Jun 26 with 1626 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:36 - Jun 26 by lowhouseblue |
you had a point?
long bailey 'didn't see' the anti-semitic conspiracy nonsense.
you as ever don't see a problem. same old same old. |
I'll repeat: What was the antisemitism conspiracy as expressed in the article? | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:44 - Jun 26 with 1623 views | manchego |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 11:52 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
"Why should Israel’s security services be treated as more responsible for the killing than those of the United Kingdom or France, or any of the countless forces that use aggressive restraint techniques?"
Because she'd just returned from Palestine and the Israeli police and secuity forces lead the way in systemic racism and associated techniques.
It's really not that complicated. |
What did she learn in Palestine that directly links the Israeli Forces, Chauvin (the cop) and George Floyd ?
If there is a link she really should have explained it.
If on the other hand it was a lazy, sweeping, conclusion jumping, mess of a conspiracy then she should have kept quiet.
RLB had to go for being an idiot and not reading the article properly. |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:58 - Jun 26 with 1594 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:44 - Jun 26 by manchego |
What did she learn in Palestine that directly links the Israeli Forces, Chauvin (the cop) and George Floyd ?
If there is a link she really should have explained it.
If on the other hand it was a lazy, sweeping, conclusion jumping, mess of a conspiracy then she should have kept quiet.
RLB had to go for being an idiot and not reading the article properly. |
Peake was talking about systemic racism being a global issue. Israel come into it because she had just come back from Palestine and that struggle is about fighting oppression. Israeli police and security forces are also heavily used by US law enforcement for their "cutting-edge" expertise in suppression policing.
Now, she was wrong or at least has no proof of the kneeling technique being specific to that. So that detail needs to be retracted.
But the overall context still remains and is unchallenged. The underlying cooperation is there and we can of course criticize the Israeli government, police and security forces for their systemic racism. So no "conspiracy theory" and no antisemitism either.
RLB getting sacked for a retweet of an article (where that detail wasn't even connected to the central point and RLB was prepared to issue a partial retraction to cover that error) stinks of the factional bobbins that has poisoned the Labour party over the years. And made it a joke of a supposedly centre-left opposition and alternative. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:59 - Jun 26 with 1589 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:44 - Jun 26 by manchego |
What did she learn in Palestine that directly links the Israeli Forces, Chauvin (the cop) and George Floyd ?
If there is a link she really should have explained it.
If on the other hand it was a lazy, sweeping, conclusion jumping, mess of a conspiracy then she should have kept quiet.
RLB had to go for being an idiot and not reading the article properly. |
If people want to better understand the RLB/ Peake situation, and the wider subject of dangerous antisemitic tropes shared by the far right and far left, they'd do well to read this.
https://cst.org.uk/news/blog/0000/00/00/twin-peakes-how-antisemitic-conspiracy-t [Post edited 26 Jun 2020 14:00]
| |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:13 - Jun 26 with 1547 views | Darth_Koont |
Some dangerous conflations going on there. And the CST makes makes zero allowance for the context in which Peake's statement was made.
It rather assumes that the brutality of the Israeli police isn't top of mind for a Palestinian activist. Casually sliding in "at its heart antisemitism is a constant striving to place Jews and/or Israel at the centre of all that is wrong in the world" is needed to bridge a necessary leap of logic past the simpler and entirely defensible criticism of the Israeli forces and their dubious involvement in US law enforcement training.
Will Peake be suspended and expelled from the Labour Party for antisemitism? Not a chance, I'd say. It's a weak case if you actually look at it in its reported context but mostly in the context of the IHRA guidelines specifically. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:20 - Jun 26 with 1532 views | giant_stow |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:13 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
Some dangerous conflations going on there. And the CST makes makes zero allowance for the context in which Peake's statement was made.
It rather assumes that the brutality of the Israeli police isn't top of mind for a Palestinian activist. Casually sliding in "at its heart antisemitism is a constant striving to place Jews and/or Israel at the centre of all that is wrong in the world" is needed to bridge a necessary leap of logic past the simpler and entirely defensible criticism of the Israeli forces and their dubious involvement in US law enforcement training.
Will Peake be suspended and expelled from the Labour Party for antisemitism? Not a chance, I'd say. It's a weak case if you actually look at it in its reported context but mostly in the context of the IHRA guidelines specifically. |
I actually partly get what you're saying - its not one of the more obvious cases of anti-semiticism, although there is some 'fcking Isrealis always at it' thinking in there.
The bigger is issue is political competence and moving on from the past trouble. RBL has been immersed in the crisis and should have known this was not content to go anywhere near and once she did, left Starmer with no choice but to sack her and yes, make a show of it. |  |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:29 - Jun 26 with 1513 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:20 - Jun 26 by giant_stow |
I actually partly get what you're saying - its not one of the more obvious cases of anti-semiticism, although there is some 'fcking Isrealis always at it' thinking in there.
The bigger is issue is political competence and moving on from the past trouble. RBL has been immersed in the crisis and should have known this was not content to go anywhere near and once she did, left Starmer with no choice but to sack her and yes, make a show of it. |
Problem is that the "fcking Israelis are always at it" if you're a Palestinian or support their right to better treatment. Generally over the past few decades but increasingly Netanyahu's government, its allies and its supporters are a revolting racist sect.
I have huge sympathy for the ordinary Israeli and especially the Israelis and Jewish Israel supporters around the rest of the world who look on in horror.
The likely annexation in July is only going to make this apartheid system even more entrenched and reprehensible.
Re: The internal politics and optics of RLB's sacking, I don't really care. I'm seeing the Labour Party disappearing in the rearview mirror. What's interesting about BLM, Climate Change activism and other movements recently is that they've marginalised and shown up exactly the type of political game-playing Labour look hell-bent on returning to. [Post edited 26 Jun 2020 15:17]
| |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:41 - Jun 26 with 1484 views | Ryorry |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 12:10 - Jun 26 by BloomBlue |
Don't feel sorry for yourself, it's the context which she said it. There was no need to put 'Israeli Secret Service' in there unless she had actual proof
On LBC the other day they had people phoning in about their own personal racist stories and one of them thought was good from the perspective of this situation
Her story was she was at work and people around her were talking about what they were doing at the weekend and she mentioned her and husband were helping a friend move and they were borrowing an SUV to help as their car was only small. A colleague then replied 'I thought all people like you owned SUV's or big cars by default?' She said it was a few years ago and she brushed it off, she wouldn't now especially given the usage of 'all people like you'. While some people might say he wasn't using racists words in its context its racist and he was clearly thinking in racists terms to even say, all people like you.
Hence as Starmer said "Anti-Semitism takes many different forms and it is important that we all are vigilant against it.” |
That story clearly demonstrates anti-Semitism & is sickening
What the thread's discussing is obviously totally different, and isn't necessarily a "different form" of a-s - it's certainly nothing like as clear-cut - that's the problem. |  |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:44 - Jun 26 with 1469 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:20 - Jun 26 by giant_stow |
I actually partly get what you're saying - its not one of the more obvious cases of anti-semiticism, although there is some 'fcking Isrealis always at it' thinking in there.
The bigger is issue is political competence and moving on from the past trouble. RBL has been immersed in the crisis and should have known this was not content to go anywhere near and once she did, left Starmer with no choice but to sack her and yes, make a show of it. |
I’d go one further than that - I think the sharing of it was an understandable mistake and explanation believable, but to then double-down when the trope was pointed out was ridiculous, and at that point left Starmer no choice |  |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:50 - Jun 26 with 1457 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:44 - Jun 26 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I’d go one further than that - I think the sharing of it was an understandable mistake and explanation believable, but to then double-down when the trope was pointed out was ridiculous, and at that point left Starmer no choice |
She didn't double down though. She clarified it wasn't an endorsement of every detail but she says she was asked to take down the clarification AND the original retweet.
If that is true, that's a worryingly heavy-handed approach from the leadership. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:57 - Jun 26 with 1438 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:50 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
She didn't double down though. She clarified it wasn't an endorsement of every detail but she says she was asked to take down the clarification AND the original retweet.
If that is true, that's a worryingly heavy-handed approach from the leadership. |
She left the original retweet there and the thrust of her second tweet was praise for the author. At no point did she acknowledge that there was an anti-semitic allegation in the article nor apologise for it
The retweet of the article is still there | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:04 - Jun 26 with 1424 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 14:57 - Jun 26 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
She left the original retweet there and the thrust of her second tweet was praise for the author. At no point did she acknowledge that there was an anti-semitic allegation in the article nor apologise for it
The retweet of the article is still there |
There was an unproven statement but not sure an actual apology was warranted certainly as an antisemitic allegation. That initial clarification of not endorsing every detail was also apparently agreed with the leadership office.
FWIW I'm yet to see anyone make a convincing case that it was antisemitic without removing all context and bringing in new ones instead. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:05 - Jun 26 with 1416 views | Ryorry |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:36 - Jun 26 by lowhouseblue |
you had a point?
long bailey 'didn't see' the anti-semitic conspiracy nonsense.
you as ever don't see a problem. same old same old. |
Tbh Lowhouse, I don't see it either, and you know that I'm usually one of the first to join you & GB in condemning anti-semitism on these threads.
I just don't see how protesting against abhorrent decisions by politicians of any country, in this case the State of Israel, which are then carried out by their police/military/special forces (if they were,) can be deemed racist or anti-semitic. Large numbers of Jewish people all over the world who are not Israelis, are amongst those who frequently & vociferously criticise the abominable behaviour of hawkish Israeli governments. Appalling R-wing politicians gonna be appalling R-wing politicians all over the globe.
And it's human nature to refer specifically to a country you've just been visiting when discussing anything really, it wouldn't seem necessary to reference other countries. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:15 - Jun 26 with 1384 views | Bluefish |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:04 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
There was an unproven statement but not sure an actual apology was warranted certainly as an antisemitic allegation. That initial clarification of not endorsing every detail was also apparently agreed with the leadership office.
FWIW I'm yet to see anyone make a convincing case that it was antisemitic without removing all context and bringing in new ones instead. |
keep going.... |  |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:15 - Jun 26 with 1384 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 13:42 - Jun 26 by Darth_Koont |
I'll repeat: What was the antisemitism conspiracy as expressed in the article? |
an entirely made up link between israel and the death of george floyd. the world's one jewish state has to be connected into everything bad. but of course you can't see it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:23 - Jun 26 with 1369 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:15 - Jun 26 by lowhouseblue |
an entirely made up link between israel and the death of george floyd. the world's one jewish state has to be connected into everything bad. but of course you can't see it. |
You've editorialised that to make it fit. Which is my point.
It's not entirely made up for starters. But the link isn't direct I admit.
| |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:26 - Jun 26 with 1361 views | Ryorry |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:15 - Jun 26 by lowhouseblue |
an entirely made up link between israel and the death of george floyd. the world's one jewish state has to be connected into everything bad. but of course you can't see it. |
I thought it had always been previously accepted that criticising Israel as a country does not mean people who do that are criticising Jewish people as a whole?
It's the old conflation problem, not sure why it's apparently being re-defined now? | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:27 - Jun 26 with 1358 views | Darth_Koont |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:15 - Jun 26 by Bluefish |
keep going.... |
Thanks. I can't tell you how much that means. | |
| |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:36 - Jun 26 with 1344 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Rebecca Long Bailey sacked from Shadow Cabinet on 15:26 - Jun 26 by Ryorry |
I thought it had always been previously accepted that criticising Israel as a country does not mean people who do that are criticising Jewish people as a whole?
It's the old conflation problem, not sure why it's apparently being re-defined now? |
Legitimate criticism of the actions of the State of Israel = Fine
Constantly linking the world's only Jewish state to every evil act in the world, despite having no evidence = antisemitic
As the CAA said "But the linkage of Mr Floyd’s death to Israel is not criticism of Israeli policy. It is criticism of American police brutality or systemic racism in the United States that unnecessarily – and, as we have seen, baselessly – blames the Jewish state for that evil. It has nothing to do with Israel or Israeli policy and serves only (and deliberately) to tarnish Israel by attaching it to a foreign evil entirely unrelated to it. [Post edited 26 Jun 2020 15:39]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
