| This is scandalous reading 10:41 - Jun 30 with 2595 views | Mullet |
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/30/headteachers-out-of-pocket-and
That anyone can fall through the cracks in a country as rich as ours is bad enough, but to see headteachers put in this position makes me angry.
No one expects perfection in times like these, but to see yet more evidence of leaving it up to the little people and not joining up the response in any way whatsoever. |  |
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| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 with 1817 views | hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| This is scandalous reading on 10:56 - Jun 30 with 1779 views | Mullet |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |
Are yes, it's the undeserving poor at fault for having no access to food or money alongside those who are paying for meals that are wholly inadequate too.
Silly me. | |
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| This is scandalous reading on 11:07 - Jun 30 with 1737 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |
What you say about nutrition in the home is, in many cases, correct- though I think many know broadly what they are supposed to do but just dont.
However, that doesnt appear to have any bearing on the story in question- or just how unacceptable it is to, for instance, retrospectively change guidelines and stitch up the schools... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
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| This is scandalous reading on 11:34 - Jun 30 with 1692 views | Libero |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |
Whoosh! |  | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 11:42 - Jun 30 with 1685 views | itfc_bucks |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |
On a related note, our neighbour gets a delivery from Olio of unsold food at its sell by date. Its invariably fresh stuff. We have one person we know who gets parcels from the foodbank, so we invited them for first dibs on the delivery.
They rejected it all.
The foodbank is basically beige food, designed to last. The Olio delivery was all good, fresh stuff.
I shake my head. |  | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 11:48 - Jun 30 with 1661 views | Libero |
| This is scandalous reading on 11:42 - Jun 30 by itfc_bucks |
On a related note, our neighbour gets a delivery from Olio of unsold food at its sell by date. Its invariably fresh stuff. We have one person we know who gets parcels from the foodbank, so we invited them for first dibs on the delivery.
They rejected it all.
The foodbank is basically beige food, designed to last. The Olio delivery was all good, fresh stuff.
I shake my head. |
Instead of wobbling your head maybe you could percolate on the subject and consider how this country has managed to get itself into a state where food banks are required and why those who require them appear to be poorly educated and unable to cook basic meals from scratch.
I think to judge the individual in the manner in which it appears you and hampstead are is to completely miss the point. | | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:02 - Jun 30 with 1620 views | Moriarty |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |
I think the welfare of the children should be the primary focus.
Obviously there are different socio economic factors at play which the State can address in different ways but the State must never fail her children. |  |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:07 - Jun 30 with 1605 views | MattinLondon |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:48 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
It might be worth shining a light on the parents.
I doubt they know how to feed the children properly. I mean cooking from fresh. But also how to shop, where and when.
A lot of this will start from the home. If the parents were educated and actually ran their homes properly, the children would be in a much better situation.
Look at the homes and see what you find.
Well done for the Headteacher but he's possibly at the wrong end of the problem. |
Out of interest how much does a household need to earn for you to stop being patronising or condescending regarding their knowledge on how best to feed their children? |  | | |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:19 - Jun 30 with 1565 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:02 - Jun 30 by Moriarty |
I think the welfare of the children should be the primary focus.
Obviously there are different socio economic factors at play which the State can address in different ways but the State must never fail her children. |
Fair comment. The state cannot micro manage or be responsible for parents' every step though. I am unconvinced it is reasonable to blame the state for parents who dont take enough interest / care. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:19 - Jun 30 with 1565 views | Swansea_Blue |
Same old story with outsourcing and private companies providing crap value for money. Throw in a government which is retrospectively changing guidance and it's a bit of a mess. The kids are the ones who suffer of course. Even if they are struggling at home (for whatever reason) the free school meal is an opportunity for them to be eating the rights sorts of foods.
Also a good example of the length some teachers go to for their school and kids. Worth remembering this at this time when teachers are in the crosshairs of a certain type of commentator. |  |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:26 - Jun 30 with 1527 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:19 - Jun 30 by sparks |
Fair comment. The state cannot micro manage or be responsible for parents' every step though. I am unconvinced it is reasonable to blame the state for parents who dont take enough interest / care. |
Maybe not blame the State, but at least demand that the State provides a workable and effective safety net, neither of which appears to be the case here.. |  |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:32 - Jun 30 with 1514 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:19 - Jun 30 by sparks |
Fair comment. The state cannot micro manage or be responsible for parents' every step though. I am unconvinced it is reasonable to blame the state for parents who dont take enough interest / care. |
Largely agree (although I'm sure they could do more to educate). I'd argue free school meals are a minimum safety net though, rather than micro managing.
It's interesting to see Germany's approach to this situation. They're giving every child €300 payment (on top of any in-school benefits/spend). That's quite a brave move from a government that's had a traditionally conservative outlook. | |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:36 - Jun 30 with 1496 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:26 - Jun 30 by Ewan_Oozami |
Maybe not blame the State, but at least demand that the State provides a workable and effective safety net, neither of which appears to be the case here.. |
The school meals thing is a different issue to that of parents choosing to buy "brown" food, imo.
Connected but separate. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:43 - Jun 30 with 1460 views | Moriarty |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:19 - Jun 30 by sparks |
Fair comment. The state cannot micro manage or be responsible for parents' every step though. I am unconvinced it is reasonable to blame the state for parents who dont take enough interest / care. |
I agree the State must be guarded about encroaching on the integrity of the family unit but where, for example, the parents aren’t taking enough interest (probably a minefield to try and determine that legal threshold) the State’s first duty must be the welfare of the children. Addressing parental failures follows where required but how and by whom is again, I’d imagine, a complex social and legal issue. | |
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| This is scandalous reading on 12:56 - Jun 30 with 1426 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:32 - Jun 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Largely agree (although I'm sure they could do more to educate). I'd argue free school meals are a minimum safety net though, rather than micro managing.
It's interesting to see Germany's approach to this situation. They're giving every child €300 payment (on top of any in-school benefits/spend). That's quite a brave move from a government that's had a traditionally conservative outlook. |
I dont think more education is needed. People know that endless pizzas are unhealthy, and can find out more about food if they choose to. You can lead a horse to water- but you cant force them down the vegetable isle... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| This is scandalous reading on 13:01 - Jun 30 with 1403 views | Libero |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:56 - Jun 30 by sparks |
I dont think more education is needed. People know that endless pizzas are unhealthy, and can find out more about food if they choose to. You can lead a horse to water- but you cant force them down the vegetable isle... |
I used to think like you, then I worked at a High School and met lots of children's parents. | | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:07 - Jun 30 with 1384 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:01 - Jun 30 by Libero |
I used to think like you, then I worked at a High School and met lots of children's parents. |
And you interrogated these parents such that you could conclude that it was simply complete ignorance, despite the endless tv shows, leaflets, education to the kids etc etc? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| This is scandalous reading on 13:08 - Jun 30 with 1368 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| This is scandalous reading on 12:56 - Jun 30 by sparks |
I dont think more education is needed. People know that endless pizzas are unhealthy, and can find out more about food if they choose to. You can lead a horse to water- but you cant force them down the vegetable isle... |
Who would want to be forced onto a floating turnip or such? Pizza ovens for all. |  |
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| This is scandalous reading on 13:35 - Jun 30 with 1328 views | hampstead_blue |
| This is scandalous reading on 10:56 - Jun 30 by Mullet |
Are yes, it's the undeserving poor at fault for having no access to food or money alongside those who are paying for meals that are wholly inadequate too.
Silly me. |
What?
Are you serious?
Cooking from fresh is cheap, simple, and easy. I doubt very much most of the families sending their children to school poorly fed know how to do it.
My post isn't a slap for these families, it's saying things which have been said so many times before.
Jamie Oliver ran a series on this a while back. Many of the families openly admitted to not knowing how to cook savvy, healthy meals. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| This is scandalous reading on 13:43 - Jun 30 with 1311 views | itfc_bucks |
| This is scandalous reading on 11:48 - Jun 30 by Libero |
Instead of wobbling your head maybe you could percolate on the subject and consider how this country has managed to get itself into a state where food banks are required and why those who require them appear to be poorly educated and unable to cook basic meals from scratch.
I think to judge the individual in the manner in which it appears you and hampstead are is to completely miss the point. |
Given I'm quite closely involved with my local foodbank, I'm rather well acquainted with the issue.
I've posted on numerous fora regarding how (predominantly Tory) MP's seem to quite enjoy popping along to a photo-op at foodbanks. I'd much rather they turn up when we are able to close them down through lack of need.
How do you consider that we've got into a state where people are unable to cook basic meals from scratch? Why do you think it seems to have spiked in recent years?
I await you to educate me on the issue. | | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:53 - Jun 30 with 1289 views | Libero |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:07 - Jun 30 by sparks |
And you interrogated these parents such that you could conclude that it was simply complete ignorance, despite the endless tv shows, leaflets, education to the kids etc etc? |
It doesn't take a lot of "interrogation" to assertain someone's basic understanding of hygiene, food preparation, diet, etc.
I was teaching a part of what used to be an ASDAN course called "life skills" - it soon became obvious that a good deal of the parents of the children on the course could have done with being enrolled also. | | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:56 - Jun 30 with 1282 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:53 - Jun 30 by Libero |
It doesn't take a lot of "interrogation" to assertain someone's basic understanding of hygiene, food preparation, diet, etc.
I was teaching a part of what used to be an ASDAN course called "life skills" - it soon became obvious that a good deal of the parents of the children on the course could have done with being enrolled also. |
No problem with making courses available. But you reach only those who are interested. I dont doubt that many lack the skills or knowledge. But there is a big overlap with lack of interest.
Clearly we cannot police people's kitchens or grocery shopping- and when people suggest things like paying benefits in vouchers for healthy foods, that understandably is seen as overbearing and innappropriate.
It is near impossible to have not seen or had the opportunity to see how to do basic cooking if someone can be bothered to do so. Stick the telly on for an afternoon- its endless. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| This is scandalous reading on 13:57 - Jun 30 with 1281 views | Mullet |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:35 - Jun 30 by hampstead_blue |
What?
Are you serious?
Cooking from fresh is cheap, simple, and easy. I doubt very much most of the families sending their children to school poorly fed know how to do it.
My post isn't a slap for these families, it's saying things which have been said so many times before.
Jamie Oliver ran a series on this a while back. Many of the families openly admitted to not knowing how to cook savvy, healthy meals. |
Yes I'm serious. Read the article.
Jamie Oliver handpicking people for a TV show is nothing to do with the massive failings of the government here. Or the indication of their consistent approach to only being interested in praise and votes.
Read it and try again. | |
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| This is scandalous reading on 14:47 - Jun 30 with 1246 views | Libero |
| This is scandalous reading on 13:56 - Jun 30 by sparks |
No problem with making courses available. But you reach only those who are interested. I dont doubt that many lack the skills or knowledge. But there is a big overlap with lack of interest.
Clearly we cannot police people's kitchens or grocery shopping- and when people suggest things like paying benefits in vouchers for healthy foods, that understandably is seen as overbearing and innappropriate.
It is near impossible to have not seen or had the opportunity to see how to do basic cooking if someone can be bothered to do so. Stick the telly on for an afternoon- its endless. |
I think you're missing the point.
Why might these people not be interested? Easily swayed by advertising, poor self control, a skepticism of the value of education due to repeated poor experiences not just with education but with educated people? Maybe it just doesn't occur to them that the food they eat, their parents eat and that their grand parents eat may not be very good for them.
Not everyone has the intellectual capacity to grasp some of this stuff.
I think ultimately we just have a difference in ideology.
- I see a family who eat nothing but microwave meals and takeaways and I feel like there have been failings to lead them to this extreme point and that we should be actively making the effort to enable them to live better lives and make better choices.
- You see a family who eat nothing but microwave meals and takeaways and feel like there is an inherent level of disinterest in living a better life and that they should have the gumption to pull themselves out of their own ignorance.
I get what you're saying about cooking shows on TV but that's really not relevant to a lot of the kinds of parents being discussed, you need to enable people to access these skills, that means making them available widely through a variety of means. Help improve knowledge, not sneer at people because they repeatedly make poor choices. | | | |
| This is scandalous reading on 14:52 - Jun 30 with 1242 views | sparks |
| This is scandalous reading on 14:47 - Jun 30 by Libero |
I think you're missing the point.
Why might these people not be interested? Easily swayed by advertising, poor self control, a skepticism of the value of education due to repeated poor experiences not just with education but with educated people? Maybe it just doesn't occur to them that the food they eat, their parents eat and that their grand parents eat may not be very good for them.
Not everyone has the intellectual capacity to grasp some of this stuff.
I think ultimately we just have a difference in ideology.
- I see a family who eat nothing but microwave meals and takeaways and I feel like there have been failings to lead them to this extreme point and that we should be actively making the effort to enable them to live better lives and make better choices.
- You see a family who eat nothing but microwave meals and takeaways and feel like there is an inherent level of disinterest in living a better life and that they should have the gumption to pull themselves out of their own ignorance.
I get what you're saying about cooking shows on TV but that's really not relevant to a lot of the kinds of parents being discussed, you need to enable people to access these skills, that means making them available widely through a variety of means. Help improve knowledge, not sneer at people because they repeatedly make poor choices. |
Sometimes you have to actual credit people with some level of agency, rather than blame the rest of society.
There is a huge amount of education and information available on this subject, at the touch of a button, flick of a remote control, the lifting of a page on a kid's school book etc.
I can fully see the argument that something has failed in getting to that point- but just how much can society do about every aspect of family life? And at what point do you say that people will always make their own choices, often driven by their own propensities and failings, as well as those of the society they live in. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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