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"Slavery was not genocide, otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks in Africa or in Britain would there?"
David Starkey, one of the most widely known popular 'historians' in the UK who has been a regular fixture on TV and other media for decades. pic.twitter.com/gVeodJakTW
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 17:45 - Jul 2 by matteoblue
Yes that's correct, it is very silly to try and cheapen the word 'genocide' when it is something that seriously damages or wipes out an entire race of people. Starkey is just stating facts here, but what is interesting is attempts by people who want people silenced who are merely voicing intelligent opinions. It was mentioned on this thread that it could be said that there are plenty of Jews around so how could there be a genocide. Well that's really not the case. There were over 16 million Jews in Europe before WW2, and now about 1 million. So it really cannot be compared to a comment like that.
It was cultural genocide at the very least.
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David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 19:02 - Jul 2 with 2245 views
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 17:45 - Jul 2 by matteoblue
Yes that's correct, it is very silly to try and cheapen the word 'genocide' when it is something that seriously damages or wipes out an entire race of people. Starkey is just stating facts here, but what is interesting is attempts by people who want people silenced who are merely voicing intelligent opinions. It was mentioned on this thread that it could be said that there are plenty of Jews around so how could there be a genocide. Well that's really not the case. There were over 16 million Jews in Europe before WW2, and now about 1 million. So it really cannot be compared to a comment like that.
He went a bit further than voicing an intelligent opinion old bean, "otherwise there wouldn't be so many damn blacks"
The language is blatantly racist and is in keeping with his past record.
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 13:17 - Jul 2 by factual_blue
I don't know why they've put historian in inverted commas. Starkey had a long career as an academic.
And to the extent that 'genocide' is a pejorative thrown around willy-nilly, he's correct.
18th century British slavery was systematic and harsh exploitation, not systematic murder of people of a particular colour, nation or creed.
This was my initial thought. Geocide is the deliberate attempt to wipe out a people group.
Slavery was (and still is) abhorrent and treated black people as less than human. However, I don't think there was any element of it that attempted to wipe them out as a race. In fact, the effect of slavery ultimately (and entirely unintentionally) was to speed up the spread of black people into the western world.
Dear @BBCNews, @itvnews, @Channel4News, @channel5_tv, @skynews. Darren Grimes tweeted that David Starkey was his hero AFTER he said slavery wasn't genocide as there are still an awful lot of damn blacks in Britain.
Answer: Because our media has little to no standards left. Journalistic or moral.
He's such a clear and obvious grifter - I'm sure there are plenty of left figures like him but him and Tom Harwood are just such deliberate contrarians they shouldn't be given the time of day let alone a platform
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 14:46 - Jul 2 by WeWereZombies
I remember hearing a snippet on BBC Radio Four some years back that suggested Irish immigrants on Liverpool docks looked longingly at black slaves because the latter were guaranteed food and bedding. Probably bunkum when you consider that transportation from West Africa to the southern states of America or to the Caribbean is unlikely to involve a stop off in Liverpool. But the premise that slaves survived because they had value, it was worthwhile to keep them in good order to maintain that value, and if you could get them to breed then you increased your stock and therefore the value of your chattels. That's capitalism.
I have not found a reliable reference for this but I did come across this interesting update on a point of controversy that makes fascinating reading:
Great insight into a particular area that as an Irish person, I was not aware. I was well aware of Cromwell and his persecution of the Irish and of the later convict transportation to Australia but not of the extent of the transportation to the Caribbean. A form of ethnic cleansing that began with the Plantation of Ulster ( early 1600 ) and continued until the final convict transportation to Australia ( 1868 ) will explain to UK citizens the deep rooted contempt Irish people have for British authority. That being said the Irish themselves were not blameless regarding abuse of slaves and native people of Australia once they gained their own freedom.
Petty's view that 'Why should not insolvent thieves be punished with slavery rather than death. So as being slaves they may be forced to as much labour, and as cheap fare, as nature will endure, and thereby become as two men added to the commonwealth, and not as one taken away from it.’ formed the basis of the Indentured Servant. It was a cynical capitalistic move ( similar to the slavery concept )
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David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 22:59 - Jul 2 with 2040 views
Dear @BBCNews, @itvnews, @Channel4News, @channel5_tv, @skynews. Darren Grimes tweeted that David Starkey was his hero AFTER he said slavery wasn't genocide as there are still an awful lot of damn blacks in Britain.
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 21:30 - Jul 2 by itfcjoe
He's such a clear and obvious grifter - I'm sure there are plenty of left figures like him but him and Tom Harwood are just such deliberate contrarians they shouldn't be given the time of day let alone a platform
Grimes is far worse. Harwood will slavishly defend the Tories and Brexit no matter what the facts are, but he stops short of fascist apologism.
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 23:04 - Jul 2 by tractordownsouth
Grimes is far worse. Harwood will slavishly defend the Tories and Brexit no matter what the facts are, but he stops short of fascist apologism.
He’s got Julia Hartley-Brewer sticking up for him now, accusing those on Twitter of bullying him.
I’d suggest declaring a racist as your hero is probably an issue
So if you’re one of the people making vicious personal attacks on @darrengrimes_ for something horrible and racist that HE DIDN’T SAY - and does not for one moment condone - then that just makes you a bully. Hope you can sleep at night.
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 23:33 - Jul 2 by ElderGrizzly
He’s got Julia Hartley-Brewer sticking up for him now, accusing those on Twitter of bullying him.
I’d suggest declaring a racist as your hero is probably an issue
So if you’re one of the people making vicious personal attacks on @darrengrimes_ for something horrible and racist that HE DIDN’T SAY - and does not for one moment condone - then that just makes you a bully. Hope you can sleep at night.
If anyone's making personal attacks then that's wrong of course, but it seems the first resort for these tribal right wingers is to accuse people of bullying if they dare to ask them some difficult questions
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 23:33 - Jul 2 by ElderGrizzly
He’s got Julia Hartley-Brewer sticking up for him now, accusing those on Twitter of bullying him.
I’d suggest declaring a racist as your hero is probably an issue
So if you’re one of the people making vicious personal attacks on @darrengrimes_ for something horrible and racist that HE DIDN’T SAY - and does not for one moment condone - then that just makes you a bully. Hope you can sleep at night.
Presumably this will just divide opinion according to the existing social media culture war, what with him being one of the proponents of it in the first place. He'll have plenty of support from the JHBs, SYLs, Hopkins, etc.
" 'Scandalous! The Tabloid that Changed America' A Storyville documentary about how the National Enquirer became the most infamous tabloid in America by pumping out salacious stories and blurring the lines between truth and fiction."
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 23:51 - Jul 2 by Swansea_Blue
Presumably this will just divide opinion according to the existing social media culture war, what with him being one of the proponents of it in the first place. He'll have plenty of support from the JHBs, SYLs, Hopkins, etc.
His go to deflection line appears to be he is ‘common’ and ‘thick’ so the media feel threatened by him.
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David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 08:39 - Jul 3 with 1831 views
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 07:24 - Jul 3 by ElderGrizzly
His go to deflection line appears to be he is ‘common’ and ‘thick’ so the media feel threatened by him.
When did Darren Grimes become a thing? I’d vaguely heard about him with regards to the electoral commission but since he was cleared he seems to be all over my Twitter feed like a rash. Usually with half my feed condemning him and the other half retweeting him.
Oh and even though Starkey was factually correct re genocide, using the words “damn blacks” isracist and appalling.
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 08:39 - Jul 3 by GlasgowBlue
When did Darren Grimes become a thing? I’d vaguely heard about him with regards to the electoral commission but since he was cleared he seems to be all over my Twitter feed like a rash. Usually with half my feed condemning him and the other half retweeting him.
Oh and even though Starkey was factually correct re genocide, using the words “damn blacks” isracist and appalling.
[Post edited 3 Jul 2020 8:48]
He’s gone to reporting the BBC to Ofcom now after they called out his new venture for what it is
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 08:39 - Jul 3 by GlasgowBlue
When did Darren Grimes become a thing? I’d vaguely heard about him with regards to the electoral commission but since he was cleared he seems to be all over my Twitter feed like a rash. Usually with half my feed condemning him and the other half retweeting him.
Oh and even though Starkey was factually correct re genocide, using the words “damn blacks” isracist and appalling.
[Post edited 3 Jul 2020 8:48]
He used to be a Lib Dem until he decided he wasn’t getting enough attention
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 09:14 - Jul 3 by ElderGrizzly
He seems to be a new breed of vacant mouthpieces, such as Harwood, Emily Hewertson etc
Say something vaguely controversial, but not illegal and get invited on numerous shows to peddle your nonsense.
Then you dig behind who is funding their ventures and it all gets more sinister
One of my uni mates is friends with Hewertson. He’s a Tory but thinks her views are a bit Faragist at times, although she’s apparently a nice person. I did laugh when I saw her suggest Priti Patel and Liz Truss future PMs mind!!
I would be interested to know where the funding for someone like Grimes comes from. Of course everyone (especially young people) is allowed to change their views, but going from a Lib Dem remainer to a hardcore Brexiteer in 9 months suggests there may be some questionable activity going on.
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 13:17 - Jul 2 by LankHenners
I loathe to say anything that comes close to a defence of the tw@t but a lot of people are getting excited about this when various US military insignia, among other things, carries the eagle (the US national symbol after all) in this position.
As for Starkey, not really surprising, unfortunately, that he has this view, and arguably less surprising to see Darren Grimes nodding in agreement with it.
I thought the eagle used on the Great Seal, and on other regalia and insignia faced to the left...
Just one small problem; sell their houses to who, Ben? Fcking Aquaman?
David Starkey - there wouldn't be so many damn blacks... on 09:27 - Jul 3 by tractordownsouth
One of my uni mates is friends with Hewertson. He’s a Tory but thinks her views are a bit Faragist at times, although she’s apparently a nice person. I did laugh when I saw her suggest Priti Patel and Liz Truss future PMs mind!!
I would be interested to know where the funding for someone like Grimes comes from. Of course everyone (especially young people) is allowed to change their views, but going from a Lib Dem remainer to a hardcore Brexiteer in 9 months suggests there may be some questionable activity going on.
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