| Do we really need another keeper? 11:59 - Jul 3 with 1937 views | Bluefish |
this whole thing of having 2 number 1 keepers seems to be more of a hindrance. Plenty of clubs just go big on the mumber 1 and get a loanee if needed if the number 1 is injured |  |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 12:57 - Jul 3 with 531 views | Chrisd |
If money and playing X amount of games wasn't an issue with the Norris agreement with Wolves then look at the mayhem that caused. Didn't help either him or Holy's confidence much last season. When is the time right to start giving those younger keepers their chance? 'IF' they are good enough then have them involved on the bench for match days at some point the club needs to draw a line, stick with Holy as our No.1, but use the younger keepers as back up. |  |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:02 - Jul 3 with 529 views | Chrisd |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 12:19 - Jul 3 by PhilTWTD |
Need two with some experience in case your main number one gets injured a day after the transfer window closes. Otherwise you'd be stuck with a couple of kids for several months. |
Aren't they given new contracts as they have the ability? No point keep giving them new deals if they haven't got any intention of playing them Phil. There's young goalkeepers around the leagues that are making their debuts as 18/19 year olds, there always has been. Until they are playing in that first team it is all based on potential. Give them the confidence to step up and challenge Holy, as his No.2.Lets not forget, we aren't playing EPL sides week in, week out. [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 13:19]
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:07 - Jul 3 with 525 views | PhilTWTD |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:02 - Jul 3 by Chrisd |
Aren't they given new contracts as they have the ability? No point keep giving them new deals if they haven't got any intention of playing them Phil. There's young goalkeepers around the leagues that are making their debuts as 18/19 year olds, there always has been. Until they are playing in that first team it is all based on potential. Give them the confidence to step up and challenge Holy, as his No.2.Lets not forget, we aren't playing EPL sides week in, week out. [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 13:19]
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I don't disagree that they might benefit from the odd game here and there for us, Leasingcom Trophy etc, but if they're suddenly the de facto first choice for a number of months due to the only senior keeper being injured and things don't go well, then that's probably not going to do either them or the team much good. Both probably need spells out on loan to gain experience. |  | | |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:12 - Jul 3 with 516 views | PhilTWTD |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 12:56 - Jul 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
On the evidence of the past two seasons, I would argue the opposite in terms of the GK position.
I see the GK position as a different situation to most positions.
The top clubs have a pretty clear hierarchy in general when it comes to their Keepers. Most clubs do. |
I think goalkeeper was one area that Mick got right. Two similar profile keepers, Gerken and Bart, with both at times the established number one with the latter ultimately becoming the confirmed first choice.
I think in the last couple of years there's been too much switching around, change for the sake of it, whereas being consistently picked helped Bart and Gerken while they also knew that if their form dropped for a sustained spell the other one would replace them. | | | |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:16 - Jul 3 with 506 views | PhilTWTD |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 12:54 - Jul 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Probably one of the best 5ft10in 'keepers around!! |
Think he was 5ft 9. He and Laurie Sivell had a 'height off' at an Ex-Players' do a couple of years ago, Clive B just had the edge.
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:18 - Jul 3 with 501 views | Chrisd |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:07 - Jul 3 by PhilTWTD |
I don't disagree that they might benefit from the odd game here and there for us, Leasingcom Trophy etc, but if they're suddenly the de facto first choice for a number of months due to the only senior keeper being injured and things don't go well, then that's probably not going to do either them or the team much good. Both probably need spells out on loan to gain experience. |
Understand you're point completely Phil, but it also could go very well too. I remember Steve Simonsen making his debut for Tranmere Rovers, he was 17 and within 2 years and 35 first team appearances later he was signed by Everton. Until they are in that first team you just don't know how they are going to react. So if we are giving them new deals, give them the opportunity. Wright is going to be 22 in November, we aren't talking about a really young kid. [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 13:20]
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:26 - Jul 3 with 475 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:18 - Jul 3 by Chrisd |
Understand you're point completely Phil, but it also could go very well too. I remember Steve Simonsen making his debut for Tranmere Rovers, he was 17 and within 2 years and 35 first team appearances later he was signed by Everton. Until they are in that first team you just don't know how they are going to react. So if we are giving them new deals, give them the opportunity. Wright is going to be 22 in November, we aren't talking about a really young kid. [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 13:20]
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His dad probably had 200 first team appearances at that age! |  |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:28 - Jul 3 with 471 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 12:44 - Jul 3 by clive_baker |
You definitely need a number 2 who isn't shaking like he needs a number 2 at the prospect of starting away at Oxford. There needs to be a clear pecking order though, a defined #1 and a deputy. That deputy needs to have sufficient experience to play 10 games or so if called upon I would say. The kind of Wright / Branaghan set up was perfect, and a good experienced pro for Plug to learn from. Gerken to Bart. ALB to Fulop. Etc. |
Finding an experienced, competent keeper willing to sit and be a designated #2 in L1 probably isn't easy. | | | |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:34 - Jul 3 with 462 views | PJH |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:26 - Jul 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
His dad probably had 200 first team appearances at that age! |
He had, I checked that a few minutes ago and was going to post it but didn't. |  | | |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:34 - Jul 3 with 461 views | Chrisd |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:26 - Jul 3 by Marshalls_Mullet |
His dad probably had 200 first team appearances at that age! |
Very true MM. I didn't want to use him as an example as that wasn't a fair comparison as Wright snr was a top end quality keeper at that age. Making your debut as a teenager in the EPL, is incredible really especially in the side we had at that time. The following season, I remember him and Shay Given, who was on loan at Sunderland at the time, two exception young keepers playing regular first team football......just found that mind blowing. | |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:45 - Jul 3 with 444 views | clive_baker |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:28 - Jul 3 by tractorboy1978 |
Finding an experienced, competent keeper willing to sit and be a designated #2 in L1 probably isn't easy. |
Yeah maybe, but I don't think we need a world beater.
Ben Alnwick for example, 33, left Bolton and still without a club. Vastly experienced in Championship / L1, perhaps offers him a route into coaching too.
Stockdale is available on a free, played for us before of course. He was on loan at Wycombe last season. Getting on a bit but is more than capable as a deputy to Holy.
Depends on circumstances whether these guys would be happy to be #2 at a club but in the Autumn of a career it's not necessarily a problem if you can get some wider benefits like coaching badges etc. |  |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:05 - Jul 3 with 419 views | PhilTWTD |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:18 - Jul 3 by Chrisd |
Understand you're point completely Phil, but it also could go very well too. I remember Steve Simonsen making his debut for Tranmere Rovers, he was 17 and within 2 years and 35 first team appearances later he was signed by Everton. Until they are in that first team you just don't know how they are going to react. So if we are giving them new deals, give them the opportunity. Wright is going to be 22 in November, we aren't talking about a really young kid. [Post edited 3 Jul 2020 13:20]
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You're right, it could go well but I think, in the current era with no provision for signing a loan player, if it doesn't you have to have two senior keepers. If Wright or Przybek impress in the games they get in the cups or on loan or whatever then their chances in the league will eventually come. I do agree re Wright's age. I think but for missing most of last season with injury he would have gone out on loan if a club had been interested in taking him. | | | |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:18 - Jul 3 with 400 views | Mullet |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 13:45 - Jul 3 by clive_baker |
Yeah maybe, but I don't think we need a world beater.
Ben Alnwick for example, 33, left Bolton and still without a club. Vastly experienced in Championship / L1, perhaps offers him a route into coaching too.
Stockdale is available on a free, played for us before of course. He was on loan at Wycombe last season. Getting on a bit but is more than capable as a deputy to Holy.
Depends on circumstances whether these guys would be happy to be #2 at a club but in the Autumn of a career it's not necessarily a problem if you can get some wider benefits like coaching badges etc. |
I think Alnwick prefers being up here but he's the sort we'd want.
I liked Norris a lot but the situation became a joke, like much of our first team stuff. I wonder if he sees it as a season wasted or not? He really probably expected to dominate appearances and kick on for a Championship loan this season I'd assume. |  |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:20 - Jul 3 with 399 views | GeoffSentence |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:05 - Jul 3 by PhilTWTD |
You're right, it could go well but I think, in the current era with no provision for signing a loan player, if it doesn't you have to have two senior keepers. If Wright or Przybek impress in the games they get in the cups or on loan or whatever then their chances in the league will eventually come. I do agree re Wright's age. I think but for missing most of last season with injury he would have gone out on loan if a club had been interested in taking him. |
With two senior keepers it is difficult to give the younger keepers game time either because you need to keep both senior ones happy, or simply keep them sharp.
The EFLT would have been the ideal competition in which to give Przybek a chance to impress. We played 5 games in it and he only got one game, in which he did alright as I recall, impressing in the shootout. Holy and Norris both got two each.
I'd rather we had just the one senior keeper and gave the younger ones their chance to impress when it came around. |  |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:24 - Jul 3 with 390 views | PhilTWTD |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:20 - Jul 3 by GeoffSentence |
With two senior keepers it is difficult to give the younger keepers game time either because you need to keep both senior ones happy, or simply keep them sharp.
The EFLT would have been the ideal competition in which to give Przybek a chance to impress. We played 5 games in it and he only got one game, in which he did alright as I recall, impressing in the shootout. Holy and Norris both got two each.
I'd rather we had just the one senior keeper and gave the younger ones their chance to impress when it came around. |
Jimmy Walker said the plan was to play him at Colchester as well but I think he was away with the Wales U21s and the same might have been the case with some of the other games as I think they were in international weeks as well. | | | |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 15:20 - Jul 3 with 357 views | Chrisd |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 14:18 - Jul 3 by Mullet |
I think Alnwick prefers being up here but he's the sort we'd want.
I liked Norris a lot but the situation became a joke, like much of our first team stuff. I wonder if he sees it as a season wasted or not? He really probably expected to dominate appearances and kick on for a Championship loan this season I'd assume. |
All about opinions I know, but I wasn't convinced by Norris, although the situation where he was constantly in and out of the side surely didn't help his confidence or mindset. Although he could make some very decent saves and looked calm, he's wasn't great with the ball at his feet, he was indecisive coming off his line to collect through balls and wasn't that confident in dealing with balls into the box from crosses. Nevertheless, I might be doing Norris a disservice in the way he was being managed, which no doubt had a negative impact. There's a good reason he's a Wolves player, after all. | |
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| Do we really need another keeper? on 16:18 - Jul 3 with 327 views | hadleighboyblue |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 12:13 - Jul 3 by clive_baker |
I agree. I really like Norris, I think he's a tidy keeper despite a couple of clangers last season. I've followed him for a while and a good friend of mine who worked with him previously really thinks the world of him. Holy made a couple of clangers too but by and large did well, you're always going to get that at this level.
The issue is we didn't just have 2 capable keepers, but there was no real pecking order between them. I think i'm right in saying we had Holy first, which made the Norris signing a bit odd, when he was never evidently number 1. We need one #1 keeper who you can sit down, blow a bit of smoke up them, given them the squad number 1 and they can make it their own, with a deputy on the bench either in the early or latter stages of their career IMO.
The formula associated with successful sides is about continuity, consistency and knowing each others game. The most successful sides generally have that, you can pretty much name the Arsenal back 5 from their 'invincible' side, or United sides under Fergie, despite not supporting them. Of course you need depth and cover, but you really do need a defined number 1 in goal. It felt like in trying to keep both players (and Wolves) happy, we compromised all of that.
I'm a ST holder and I still couldn't tell you how Lambert would line us up in a playoff final tomorrow. If you asked 10 people on here you would get 10 different sides, different formations, different defence, even different keepers FFS. And that's after 18 months in charge. It's been a utter shambles. |
The rotating last season was a complete mess .
Holy had started the season well and as our own player should have kept his place . The problem was of our own making because we signed a keeper that expected to play and it's pretty certain that his parent club put pressure on us to make sure he played .
In that sort of situation , it's not a worthwhile loan for either clubs , .....it means we end up playing someone else's player , rather than our own player and any senior club loaning a player out expects them to get games .
So basically , the signing was a mistake . | | | |
| Do we really need another keeper? on 16:29 - Jul 3 with 320 views | itfcjoe |
I think there always has to be a number 1, and in League 1 you just can't afford the luxury of having a cup goalkeeper on a similar footing to your main man.
Przybek should be in a position to step up as a number 2 and him and Wright can battle it out.
The constant chopping and changing of keepers did nothing to help things, I think Norris was nowhere near as bad as made out by some fans, but his presence here didn't help. |  |
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