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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? 09:17 - Jul 9 with 4293 viewsSteve_M

Almost certainly the stand out member of the cabinet over the last few months, happy to explain his policy proposals in terms of nuance and costs when interviewed today.

That sort of competence is clearly too big a threat to Johnson & Cummings. The contrast with the shambolic approach of the Prime Minister and the not as clever as he thinks he is scheming of Cummings is stark.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:21 - Jul 9 with 2174 viewstractordownsouth

Cummings quite likes him by all accounts, plus I believe all his spads were appointed by Cummings, which is why Javid resigned.

You can see from his social media output that he's lining up a leadership bid though. If I were the Tories, I'd give it a year before launching a challenge and allow Johnson to take the hit with Brexit, Covid etc, so it enables a new leader to disassociate themselves from everything at the next election.
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 9:22]

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:24 - Jul 9 with 2159 viewssparks

I don't think we can assume he is wonderfully competent. He has the huge advantage of being the one to announce and put forward all of the big money policies to try to save the economy. Those are not decisions he is making in isolation, or coming up with on his own. They are doubtless group decisions- and he is simply able to bask in the glory of being the one announcing them, whilst avoiding the problems inherent with being health secretary, or called Boris.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:24 - Jul 9 with 2150 viewshampstead_blue

I read a small essay on the topic of 'Power' a long time ago.

The premise was that the #2 threw a party for the Boss. It was so cool that he got the praise and the Boss was in the shadows.

#2 lost his head.

Rishi is so cool it's a joy.
There is a separate thread on how we get the best into Gov here, but well played for highlighting a wonderful politician.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:27 - Jul 9 with 2143 viewsitfcjoe

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:21 - Jul 9 by tractordownsouth

Cummings quite likes him by all accounts, plus I believe all his spads were appointed by Cummings, which is why Javid resigned.

You can see from his social media output that he's lining up a leadership bid though. If I were the Tories, I'd give it a year before launching a challenge and allow Johnson to take the hit with Brexit, Covid etc, so it enables a new leader to disassociate themselves from everything at the next election.
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 9:22]


I don't think he has been able to build up his own support as yet, has had to take the advisers foisted on him so yet to establish his own power base.

But he has to be the next leader, he's streets ahead of anyone else in the party

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:30 - Jul 9 with 2127 viewsitfcjoe

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:24 - Jul 9 by sparks

I don't think we can assume he is wonderfully competent. He has the huge advantage of being the one to announce and put forward all of the big money policies to try to save the economy. Those are not decisions he is making in isolation, or coming up with on his own. They are doubtless group decisions- and he is simply able to bask in the glory of being the one announcing them, whilst avoiding the problems inherent with being health secretary, or called Boris.


I think that misses the point of it all, obviously it helps that he announces them - but they key point is that he can announce them, can be across all the detail, can speak in the right manner when announcing them, can easily respond to questions and give answers that are so good they feel as though he has scriptwriters in his brain.

It's very reminicsent of Tony Blair for me, a masterful understanding of all the factors involved with being fair, empathetic, light hearted where necessary and just giving comofrt that he knows what he is talking about at all times, and if he doesn't he will say rather than blag it

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:32 - Jul 9 with 2111 viewsWeWereZombies

It's early days, let's wait and see how he rides out the storm that arises from all this borrowing.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:34 - Jul 9 with 2103 viewsbluelagos

The one I think he has messed up on is the VAT reduction. If he thinks that will lead to reduced prices and thus more demand he has more faith in the hospitality sector than I do.

More than a few retailers will simply bank the additional profit and consumers will still pay full whack for a pint/meal/hotel!/coffee in such cases.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:34 - Jul 9 with 2098 viewssparks

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:30 - Jul 9 by itfcjoe

I think that misses the point of it all, obviously it helps that he announces them - but they key point is that he can announce them, can be across all the detail, can speak in the right manner when announcing them, can easily respond to questions and give answers that are so good they feel as though he has scriptwriters in his brain.

It's very reminicsent of Tony Blair for me, a masterful understanding of all the factors involved with being fair, empathetic, light hearted where necessary and just giving comofrt that he knows what he is talking about at all times, and if he doesn't he will say rather than blag it


The ability to know one's subect and speak appropriately ought ot be absolute base level competence for a politician, not something to be lauded!

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:35 - Jul 9 with 2100 viewsgtsb1966

When he has to put up taxes, unemployment reaches its peak and we have more austerity which is inevitable, then we will see, rightly or wrongly, how popular he is. A year is a long time in politics.
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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:35 - Jul 9 with 2096 viewstractordownsouth

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:27 - Jul 9 by itfcjoe

I don't think he has been able to build up his own support as yet, has had to take the advisers foisted on him so yet to establish his own power base.

But he has to be the next leader, he's streets ahead of anyone else in the party


It's not surprising he's got such high approval ratings as he has basically spent his entire time in the job so far chucking money at everyone. However, he's a far better communicator than most of the rest of them, so I'd be worried if he were leader in the next election.

Still think it'll be Sunak v Gove in the next leadership. Will be interesting to see who Cummings backs as I assume he'll want to keep hold of power within Number 10. Obviously he's mates with Gove but he's apparently impressed by Sunak and seems the sort of bloke who would change loyalties for his own benefit.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:36 - Jul 9 with 2083 viewssparks

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:35 - Jul 9 by tractordownsouth

It's not surprising he's got such high approval ratings as he has basically spent his entire time in the job so far chucking money at everyone. However, he's a far better communicator than most of the rest of them, so I'd be worried if he were leader in the next election.

Still think it'll be Sunak v Gove in the next leadership. Will be interesting to see who Cummings backs as I assume he'll want to keep hold of power within Number 10. Obviously he's mates with Gove but he's apparently impressed by Sunak and seems the sort of bloke who would change loyalties for his own benefit.


The very fact that Cummings likes Sunak, ought to be sufficient to put right minded people off...

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:37 - Jul 9 with 2077 viewsStokieBlue

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:30 - Jul 9 by itfcjoe

I think that misses the point of it all, obviously it helps that he announces them - but they key point is that he can announce them, can be across all the detail, can speak in the right manner when announcing them, can easily respond to questions and give answers that are so good they feel as though he has scriptwriters in his brain.

It's very reminicsent of Tony Blair for me, a masterful understanding of all the factors involved with being fair, empathetic, light hearted where necessary and just giving comofrt that he knows what he is talking about at all times, and if he doesn't he will say rather than blag it


Quite a lot of easy angles to attack him with though if he was leader which would play well with some sections of the public even if they aren't really fair or even that relevant:

- Worked at Goldman Sachs pre-2008
- Worked at a hedge fund
- Wife's dad is a billionaire

Can see now the immediate angle of attack would be that he knows nothing about the public even if it's untrue.

As for ousting Boris, I am not sure the public are ready for another leadership merry-go-round at the top of the parties even if he has been awful and hugely incompetent. There are still a large number for whom "Get Brexit Done" is still enough to secure their vote.

SB
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 9:40]

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:39 - Jul 9 with 2069 viewsStokieBlue

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:36 - Jul 9 by sparks

The very fact that Cummings likes Sunak, ought to be sufficient to put right minded people off...


There doesn't have to be correlation between liking someone and them being competent and thus not really fair to judge someone by the people who like him and not the other way round.

SB

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:43 - Jul 9 with 2041 viewsHerbivore

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:37 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue

Quite a lot of easy angles to attack him with though if he was leader which would play well with some sections of the public even if they aren't really fair or even that relevant:

- Worked at Goldman Sachs pre-2008
- Worked at a hedge fund
- Wife's dad is a billionaire

Can see now the immediate angle of attack would be that he knows nothing about the public even if it's untrue.

As for ousting Boris, I am not sure the public are ready for another leadership merry-go-round at the top of the parties even if he has been awful and hugely incompetent. There are still a large number for whom "Get Brexit Done" is still enough to secure their vote.

SB
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 9:40]


In fairness it is hard to see how someone with his kind of life experiences can really know what it feels like to live pay day to pay day. But then that is true of the majority of politicians.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:46 - Jul 9 with 2033 viewsitfcjoe

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:37 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue

Quite a lot of easy angles to attack him with though if he was leader which would play well with some sections of the public even if they aren't really fair or even that relevant:

- Worked at Goldman Sachs pre-2008
- Worked at a hedge fund
- Wife's dad is a billionaire

Can see now the immediate angle of attack would be that he knows nothing about the public even if it's untrue.

As for ousting Boris, I am not sure the public are ready for another leadership merry-go-round at the top of the parties even if he has been awful and hugely incompetent. There are still a large number for whom "Get Brexit Done" is still enough to secure their vote.

SB
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 9:40]


There are easy angles to attack almost any politician, but that's fine it is how they deal with being attacked that is the key. And almost any politician, especially at the very top level has a past that doesn't understand the day to day life.

Some may have it in their long distant past, some may be shaped by it, but no one is going from the shop floor to the leaders office

I don't think Boris will be ousted any time soon, but think next time there is a GE it will be Starmer v Sunak, not Starmer v Boris.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:59 - Jul 9 with 2007 viewsfooters

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:37 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue

Quite a lot of easy angles to attack him with though if he was leader which would play well with some sections of the public even if they aren't really fair or even that relevant:

- Worked at Goldman Sachs pre-2008
- Worked at a hedge fund
- Wife's dad is a billionaire

Can see now the immediate angle of attack would be that he knows nothing about the public even if it's untrue.

As for ousting Boris, I am not sure the public are ready for another leadership merry-go-round at the top of the parties even if he has been awful and hugely incompetent. There are still a large number for whom "Get Brexit Done" is still enough to secure their vote.

SB
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 9:40]


He wasn't even a very good hedge fund manager, was he? From what I recall, his City life was hardly glittering.

And no way would the usual suspects use that as a line of attack when JRM and 'boris' are lionised as men of the people!

Suspect you're right on 'boris' though. People don't mind having a clown as PM so long as they get their beloved brexit.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:59 - Jul 9 with 2009 viewsfactual_blue

He's the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind.

Great piece on hancock in The Guardian yesterday, using a Macbeth analogy, saying how hancock is being eaten away from the inside by the rubbish he's forced to spout defending johnson. But, as they also pointed out, at least the end of the daily televised press briefing stop his twice-weekly cringe-making TV appearances.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:00 - Jul 9 with 2003 viewssparks

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:39 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue

There doesn't have to be correlation between liking someone and them being competent and thus not really fair to judge someone by the people who like him and not the other way round.

SB


I think that if Cummings thinks he is suitable and can be relied upon- that suggests they are of a similar mind on a number of things, and perhaps also on issues of integrity... Cummings would not support someone liable to stand up and say "this is wrong- not on my watch" against the party line.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:01 - Jul 9 with 2000 viewsSteve_M

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:34 - Jul 9 by sparks

The ability to know one's subect and speak appropriately ought ot be absolute base level competence for a politician, not something to be lauded!


It is but, as with your competence point earlier in the thread, it stands out enormously in this cabinet of utter mediocrity.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:04 - Jul 9 with 1982 viewsBloomBlue

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:24 - Jul 9 by sparks

I don't think we can assume he is wonderfully competent. He has the huge advantage of being the one to announce and put forward all of the big money policies to try to save the economy. Those are not decisions he is making in isolation, or coming up with on his own. They are doubtless group decisions- and he is simply able to bask in the glory of being the one announcing them, whilst avoiding the problems inherent with being health secretary, or called Boris.


But isn't that the same with all Governments, its decisions / ideas from groups of people behind MP's.
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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:05 - Jul 9 with 1978 viewsgordon

Sunak obviously has a decent head for figures and is able to communicate well on finance/economics, but I'd be a bit wary of a politician who's only shown competence in one area - tories were generally pleased when Theresa May became PM, and look how that turned out.

I'd add that he also hasn't done an awful lot to suggest he has a good grasp of how as chancellor his decisions could contribute to addressing broader societal challenges.

Having said that, demonstrating a fairly narrow competence in one area puts him streets ahead of the current PM.

Also worth noting that he supported Brexit, which means he can't be that smart.
[Post edited 9 Jul 2020 10:10]
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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:06 - Jul 9 with 1974 viewsDarth_Koont

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 09:32 - Jul 9 by WeWereZombies

It's early days, let's wait and see how he rides out the storm that arises from all this borrowing.


Indeed. He's got the most popular job in the UK when it's about giving money away.

The real test will be whether he supports public services and local authorities over time - or is complicit in the continued dismantling of society's structures.

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:10 - Jul 9 with 1952 viewsStokieBlue

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:00 - Jul 9 by sparks

I think that if Cummings thinks he is suitable and can be relied upon- that suggests they are of a similar mind on a number of things, and perhaps also on issues of integrity... Cummings would not support someone liable to stand up and say "this is wrong- not on my watch" against the party line.


I'm not sure you would accept that form of argument on other subjects.

Because A likes B that doesn't mean that B likes A or even thinks like him. There can be many reasons why A might like B though.

You are essentially eliminating a candidate by proxy. You might well be totally correct about Sunak but it's not a fair way to evaluate him.

SB

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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:11 - Jul 9 with 1936 viewsgordon

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:10 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue

I'm not sure you would accept that form of argument on other subjects.

Because A likes B that doesn't mean that B likes A or even thinks like him. There can be many reasons why A might like B though.

You are essentially eliminating a candidate by proxy. You might well be totally correct about Sunak but it's not a fair way to evaluate him.

SB


Brave post! :)
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When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:11 - Jul 9 with 1935 viewssparks

When will Rishi Sunak get pushed out? on 10:10 - Jul 9 by StokieBlue

I'm not sure you would accept that form of argument on other subjects.

Because A likes B that doesn't mean that B likes A or even thinks like him. There can be many reasons why A might like B though.

You are essentially eliminating a candidate by proxy. You might well be totally correct about Sunak but it's not a fair way to evaluate him.

SB


The endorsement of someone who operates as Cummings does ought to be a concern- surely?

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