| How much trust do you have? 22:58 - Jul 9 with 2955 views | Coastalblue |
About anything? I feel like virtually anything I read now or hear through the media I have to do my own fact checking before I can actually give it any weight. Even stuff said to me by friends and family, who I would have trusted implicitly at one time I now tend to take with a pinch of salt most of the time unless I know where they are getting their information from.
I'm sure I am getting more cynical as I age, but I do feel even ten years ago if I read something there was likely to be at least a semblance of truth or facts involved, now the balance seems to be the other way around.
Is it just me, or do other feel the same? For those over say 30, do you feel it's a lot worse now than it used to be even taking out the obvious fake news and social media cr4p that gets posted as facts?
Maybe I'm just turning into a bitter cynical old man slowly, but it does get a bit wearing at times never being able to ever take anything at face value. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 23:06 - Jul 9 with 2309 views | Libero |
I think you should approach everything with healthy skepticism and always be aware of the authors potential intrinsic bias, politics or employers.
There’s a lot of fake news and disingenuous reporting out there but I think most people with even a low level of critical thinking can cut through the sh1t with relative ease, it’s just absurd that anyone should have too and tedious when you see someone you thought was a good dude posting some kind of nonsense like an antivax influenced conspiracy theory on social media... [Post edited 9 Jul 2020 23:07]
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| How much trust do you have? on 23:30 - Jul 9 with 2258 views | SpruceMoose |
I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly identify with what you're saying.
I think that because of the internet, information gathering these days is fast and cheap, and that alters our relationship to knowledge.
I'm currently reading a book about rewilding, and several times a chapter I'm finding myself Googling an unfamiliar Maaasai word or scientific term I've not come across before, and it literally takes me seconds to do so. This is obviously a wonderful gift to humanity but it comes at a price.
25 years ago, reading a similar book in my teens all these checks would most likely have required me to take a trip to the library to look things up, to broaden my reading, or talk to somebody I thought had more insight than I did. Knowledge was slow to gain, required effort to obtain and, to me, felt more authentic and valuable. You can still carry out research online now obviously, but it's so much easier to take shortcuts and become an armchair expert in a matter of weeks.
I suppose 25 years ago I would have assumed that whoever was writing what I was reading had also had to do the legwork, had done the slow research and had themselves done the reading before synthesising the relevant information for me to consume.
I do believe that convenience impacts the depth of our understanding. A while back I read a paper about the impact of GPS navigation devices on small Inuit communities. Older members of the community continue to navigate through traditional methods, by landmarks and by stories, but the younger members of the community tended to rely on electronic devices, which were efficient and 100% accurate, until the devices get lost, broken or stop working. At that point, there's no underlying foundation for the information the younger members of the community had been hitherto happily been accessing and deploying, so they get lost.
Nowadays any answer to any question is Google-able, but the abundance of information means it's hard to judge the validity, and the fact that any answer can be had with a few clicks means it's easy to parrot information - and even easier to do so in the incorrect context. I myself knowing the answer to so many questions to which I haven't even earned, all I can do is to try an remember that I might know a few facts, but it's still superficial form of knowledge.
We don't have to remember information now either. Instead of storing it in our brains it's now stored in the cloud, ready for whenever we need to repeat it. But it's not stored anywhere that makes knowledge feel valuable, or precious, or earned, or even a part of us.
Everything online these days seems to be treated as fact by default by many people because they can repeat it, and not have to think about it too deeply. Repetition is different to true understanding though. I think it's only natural to doubt everything you read right now.
Edit - after one too many pints in the garden your post has sent me down a wormhole! [Post edited 9 Jul 2020 23:43]
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| How much trust do you have? on 23:31 - Jul 9 with 2264 views | vapour_trail |
I work in charity (though I don’t like to talk about it) and we have witnessed diminishing trust in the sector in recent years.
Edelman have a good measurement index, I go and see them each year when they update, I find it really interesting, but that’s probably a reflection on me.
https://www.edelman.com/trustbarometer |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 00:12 - Jul 10 with 2226 views | jeera |
An old pal of mine has taken to regularly posting 'news' from Spiked onto FB recently.
To the point where he even posted a Spiked article which was based on information lifted from a Guardian article from last week. Of course it had its own added bias but he can't see it.
He called the Guardian a 'far left' paper and went on to say how he admired O'Neil, having heard him talk at some do or other.
So I asked him how he felt about O'Neils' comments on a few things, including child abuse, and he deleted me without further comment. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 00:15 - Jul 10 with 2215 views | Libero |
| How much trust do you have? on 00:12 - Jul 10 by jeera |
An old pal of mine has taken to regularly posting 'news' from Spiked onto FB recently.
To the point where he even posted a Spiked article which was based on information lifted from a Guardian article from last week. Of course it had its own added bias but he can't see it.
He called the Guardian a 'far left' paper and went on to say how he admired O'Neil, having heard him talk at some do or other.
So I asked him how he felt about O'Neils' comments on a few things, including child abuse, and he deleted me without further comment. |
That’s numberwang. | | | |
| How much trust do you have? on 00:30 - Jul 10 with 2202 views | jeera |
| How much trust do you have? on 00:15 - Jul 10 by Libero |
That’s numberwang. |
That was a bit random admittedly.
I mean that people are getting their 'news' from funny places and if you question anything they say, the default response has become along the lines of, "I suppose you trust msm", as though the more obscure their sources are the more reliable they seem to think they must be.
My sister started sharing and quoting stuff she saw on FB until the likes of her [grown up] kids and I were giving her a regular telling off. She now tends to check things more carefully which is good. At least she took notice.
I've seen so many friends and family doing the same it's scary. They won't believe the BBC but will share some meme from someone they've never met before. [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 0:31]
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| How much trust do you have? on 04:14 - Jul 10 with 2135 views | LittleBoyBlue |
Very little if it's not from an accredited site or source.
A lot depends on the original source of the information given. In the modern world, everything has been "dumbed down" into short soundbites because people's attention spans are half what they were even 20 years ago. Media is saturated with inaccurate information because people don't really care about the truth, they are only there to push a particular agenda or make a financial gain from it.
I have always fact checked any subject matter, in the past it was easier as published materials had to hold to a certain standard, several people or institutions or businesses reputation were at stake if things proved to be wholly inaccurate. The rise of the internet, although it has made access to information easier, has greatly diminished the accuracy of most information.
We live in a world where it's now more important to have an image than to be honest and accurate, people are celebrated just because they can post information to the masses quickly, even when they know what they're writing is a complete fallacy, the masses lap it up as they are so obsessed with trying to be famous themselves they don't care it's all fake.
It's still possible to find accurate information out there, it just sometimes takes a little digging, and reading of several articles, so you can find the truth, but it's still quicker with the internet than it was by referencing several different books or papers, which could often be tiresome to track down copies of them. |  |
| "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." |
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| How much trust do you have? on 07:00 - Jul 10 with 2052 views | WeWereZombies |
| How much trust do you have? on 04:14 - Jul 10 by LittleBoyBlue |
Very little if it's not from an accredited site or source.
A lot depends on the original source of the information given. In the modern world, everything has been "dumbed down" into short soundbites because people's attention spans are half what they were even 20 years ago. Media is saturated with inaccurate information because people don't really care about the truth, they are only there to push a particular agenda or make a financial gain from it.
I have always fact checked any subject matter, in the past it was easier as published materials had to hold to a certain standard, several people or institutions or businesses reputation were at stake if things proved to be wholly inaccurate. The rise of the internet, although it has made access to information easier, has greatly diminished the accuracy of most information.
We live in a world where it's now more important to have an image than to be honest and accurate, people are celebrated just because they can post information to the masses quickly, even when they know what they're writing is a complete fallacy, the masses lap it up as they are so obsessed with trying to be famous themselves they don't care it's all fake.
It's still possible to find accurate information out there, it just sometimes takes a little digging, and reading of several articles, so you can find the truth, but it's still quicker with the internet than it was by referencing several different books or papers, which could often be tiresome to track down copies of them. |
I tend to trust Wikipedia, in part because they make declarations when people contribute to a page and the Wikipedia guidelines are not completely adhered to. I have also had experience of being on the receiving end of a warning message from their legal head, not because what I added to a page was incorrect but because it had been challenged by the subject and I couldn't go back to the source for confirmation as he is now deceased. That being said, on a recent thread I started a link to TruePublica was posted and I could not find a Wikipedia page to ascertain the provenance of this online publication, most of the contributors did not have Wikipedia pages but one that did was branded a conspiracy theorist. However the article that was linked was not by her and did share one or two themes with famous open letter from someone a little further to the right on the political spectrum:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/why-i-have-resigned-from-telegr [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 7:22]
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| How much trust do you have? on 08:45 - Jul 10 with 1945 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
It has got worse, and I feel younger people are quick to believe what they read on social media without question.
Best to get your news from a few trusted sources. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 09:01 - Jul 10 with 1932 views | bluelagos |
Know where you are coming from, but I do think we (me for sure) go to far in not trusting ordinary folk in ordinary times. Couple of weeks back I cycled passed a young lady pushing her pushbike. I stopped to see if she was ok and she had a puncture and was 6 miles from home, on a hot day.
So I explained I lived 2 miles up the road and was happy to grab my car, throw her and bike in the back and run her home. She declined my offer for no reason other than she was uncomfortable with accepting an offer of help from a stranger (who could be an axe murderer I guess)
It bugs me how little trust we now have in each other when 99.999% of people are decent people who will help out strangers (hold doors open / carry shopping for an old lady) - we all do it - yet we are still judged as potential axe murderers by those who don't know us.
Sad imho. And I think that lack of trust is partly down to the things you posted about. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 09:05 - Jul 10 with 1925 views | homer_123 |
| How much trust do you have? on 23:06 - Jul 9 by Libero |
I think you should approach everything with healthy skepticism and always be aware of the authors potential intrinsic bias, politics or employers.
There’s a lot of fake news and disingenuous reporting out there but I think most people with even a low level of critical thinking can cut through the sh1t with relative ease, it’s just absurd that anyone should have too and tedious when you see someone you thought was a good dude posting some kind of nonsense like an antivax influenced conspiracy theory on social media... [Post edited 9 Jul 2020 23:07]
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Yeah - don't believe anything Libs tell ya! ;) |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 09:08 - Jul 10 with 1918 views | BlueBadger |
As always, it depends on the source, but generally, I want at at least one thing broadly corroborating it. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 09:11 - Jul 10 with 1910 views | linhdi |
| How much trust do you have? on 23:06 - Jul 9 by Libero |
I think you should approach everything with healthy skepticism and always be aware of the authors potential intrinsic bias, politics or employers.
There’s a lot of fake news and disingenuous reporting out there but I think most people with even a low level of critical thinking can cut through the sh1t with relative ease, it’s just absurd that anyone should have too and tedious when you see someone you thought was a good dude posting some kind of nonsense like an antivax influenced conspiracy theory on social media... [Post edited 9 Jul 2020 23:07]
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My trust is at an all-time low. I have really been boosted by the contributions to this thread, as I realise it isn't just me that feels that way. Private Eye remains my choice source for insight into various activities the powerful get up to that I'd prefer to ignore, but feel I shouldnt. So often, their stories and campaigns become news only some years later, such as the Post Office non-existent fraud scandal that ruined so many lives.
When I hear people say stuff like " it must be true, I read it on FB" (most recently, last week, about 5G and CV), I despair. | | | |
| How much trust do you have? on 09:12 - Jul 10 with 1908 views | Libero |
| How much trust do you have? on 00:30 - Jul 10 by jeera |
That was a bit random admittedly.
I mean that people are getting their 'news' from funny places and if you question anything they say, the default response has become along the lines of, "I suppose you trust msm", as though the more obscure their sources are the more reliable they seem to think they must be.
My sister started sharing and quoting stuff she saw on FB until the likes of her [grown up] kids and I were giving her a regular telling off. She now tends to check things more carefully which is good. At least she took notice.
I've seen so many friends and family doing the same it's scary. They won't believe the BBC but will share some meme from someone they've never met before. [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 0:31]
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Sorry, I think my joke required more explanation.
In my experience in recent months every so often someone you previously considered a perfectly sane and reasonable adult appears on social media or a group chat spouting some kind of misinformation or conspiracy theory, the way in which they randomly pop up reminds me of that numberwang sketch in that it doesn't appear to make any sense but by god do the "winners" keep coming. | | | |
| How much trust do you have? on 09:28 - Jul 10 with 1875 views | GlasgowBlue |
| How much trust do you have? on 23:31 - Jul 9 by vapour_trail |
I work in charity (though I don’t like to talk about it) and we have witnessed diminishing trust in the sector in recent years.
Edelman have a good measurement index, I go and see them each year when they update, I find it really interesting, but that’s probably a reflection on me.
https://www.edelman.com/trustbarometer |
I read somewhere that before the allegations of sexual misconduct against OXFAM were exposed, the charity had a 75% measurement of positive posts on social media and after they were exposed that turned into -88%. I think similar numbers applied to Save The Children.
I have no idea what those numbers are now but do you think that those two scandals eroded some trust in all charities and has it started to return as time has gone on? |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 09:29 - Jul 10 with 1871 views | Libero |
| How much trust do you have? on 09:05 - Jul 10 by homer_123 |
Yeah - don't believe anything Libs tell ya! ;) |
There is certainly a strong little cohort on here that are taking that approach :') | | | |
| How much trust do you have? on 09:54 - Jul 10 with 1843 views | Darth_Koont |
The news media has been increasingly driven by the Internet, which like the Internet itself is both good and bad.
On one hand, there's the opportunity to report on anything and, in principle, transmit information and knowledge far and wide. Events on the other side of the world and niche stuff get covered like never before.
But on the other hand that reliance on far and wide 24/7 content means there's little digging by mainstream journalists and there's a tendency to replace facts with opinions to fill the space. These false appeals to authority put the messengers in charge whether they're politicians, think tank lobbyists, companies etc.That these opinions are generally more extreme and more click-baity is also good for the media business. And it's no surprise that their own "leading journalists" follow that pattern of being opinionated gobshytes who are less interested in the boring, objective truth.
So yes, unfortunately, we now have to do a lot of journalism's work for them by checking and cross-referencing sources. And unfortunately the UK's media is one of the worst and least trustworthy so we have our work cut out. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 09:58 - Jul 10 with 1838 views | Darth_Koont |
| How much trust do you have? on 08:45 - Jul 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
It has got worse, and I feel younger people are quick to believe what they read on social media without question.
Best to get your news from a few trusted sources. |
I think that's the older people actually.
They seem to be much more credulous and unprepared for fake news than the kids who've grown up with it. | |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:04 - Jul 10 with 1830 views | ipswich78 |
| How much trust do you have? on 08:45 - Jul 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
It has got worse, and I feel younger people are quick to believe what they read on social media without question.
Best to get your news from a few trusted sources. |
My experience tend to be the opposite, I find the older generation worse based on what I see them sharing on FB (not all older folk obviously). |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:07 - Jul 10 with 1818 views | Libero |
| How much trust do you have? on 09:58 - Jul 10 by Darth_Koont |
I think that's the older people actually.
They seem to be much more credulous and unprepared for fake news than the kids who've grown up with it. |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:15 - Jul 10 with 1812 views | Keno |
One of factors that has created this 'trust' issue, which I am well aware of. is the extent to which rolling new coverage has changed how the news media deal with stories
Going back a few year on the TV you would have a maybe 30 minutes new programme in which the facts of stories were simply reported
Now you dont get factual reporting as much elongated interpretations of new stories, endless Vox pops and the that the news media has to fill means that they are desperate for any attention seeking publicity whore they can get to come to give us their interpretation of the facts as they see them. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:26 - Jul 10 with 1800 views | ipswich78 |
| How much trust do you have? on 10:15 - Jul 10 by Keno |
One of factors that has created this 'trust' issue, which I am well aware of. is the extent to which rolling new coverage has changed how the news media deal with stories
Going back a few year on the TV you would have a maybe 30 minutes new programme in which the facts of stories were simply reported
Now you dont get factual reporting as much elongated interpretations of new stories, endless Vox pops and the that the news media has to fill means that they are desperate for any attention seeking publicity whore they can get to come to give us their interpretation of the facts as they see them. |
Clickbait headlines are the problem as well. I've argued for a long time news is no longer 'news'. All the interest seems to be nowadays is clicks and shares, which increases visibility thus potentially leading more people to their website this viewing or clicking on ads = increased revenue.
It's not unusual to see a headline, then when you actually read the article it doesn't exactly tally up! Everything has to be sensationalised now. | |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:41 - Jul 10 with 1770 views | Pinewoodblue |
| How much trust do you have? on 09:58 - Jul 10 by Darth_Koont |
I think that's the older people actually.
They seem to be much more credulous and unprepared for fake news than the kids who've grown up with it. |
Think people tend to fact check through reliable sources. Which means going to a source that is likely to reinforce any opinion they already hold. |  |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:43 - Jul 10 with 1763 views | Darth_Koont |
| How much trust do you have? on 10:26 - Jul 10 by ipswich78 |
Clickbait headlines are the problem as well. I've argued for a long time news is no longer 'news'. All the interest seems to be nowadays is clicks and shares, which increases visibility thus potentially leading more people to their website this viewing or clicking on ads = increased revenue.
It's not unusual to see a headline, then when you actually read the article it doesn't exactly tally up! Everything has to be sensationalised now. |
Indeed. It's depressing to see the BBC and others use the exaggerated headline angle straight from the tabloid toolbox.
That's in addition to the general slackness of their coverage. I genuinely can't remember the BBC being so poor before. | |
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| How much trust do you have? on 10:43 - Jul 10 with 1755 views | Libero |
| How much trust do you have? on 10:43 - Jul 10 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. It's depressing to see the BBC and others use the exaggerated headline angle straight from the tabloid toolbox.
That's in addition to the general slackness of their coverage. I genuinely can't remember the BBC being so poor before. |
Some of the headlines lower down on the website often make me roll my eyes.
I then read the article and it's a perfectly fine article more often than not, I think they're just trying to adapt to the landscape unfortunately. | | | |
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