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80 years ago today 07:13 - Jul 10 with 1635 viewssolomon

The Battle of Britain started. Another reminder of selfless sacrifice and determination in the face of unfavourable odds. We can still learn at lot from this today.
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80 years ago today on 07:20 - Jul 10 with 1364 viewsMattinLondon

Quite an interesting fact is that Britain ramped up factory production of aircraft and by October 1940 Fighter Command had more fighter planes than the Luftwaffe.
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80 years ago today on 09:14 - Jul 10 with 1289 viewsBlueBadger

LEsson 1: shoot more nazis, make the world better

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80 years ago today on 09:46 - Jul 10 with 1253 viewsPendejo

Radar
Hurricanes
Spitfires
Multinational pilots fighting for freedom

Never, in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few.

uberima fides
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80 years ago today on 09:59 - Jul 10 with 1249 viewsChiefXL

80 years ago today on 09:46 - Jul 10 by Pendejo

Radar
Hurricanes
Spitfires
Multinational pilots fighting for freedom

Never, in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few.


Fighting over your own territory helps too.
RAF pilot parachutes out over Kent? He's back flying the next day.
A Luftwaffe pilot parachutes out over Kent? "Vell for you, Fritz, ze var is over"
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80 years ago today on 10:11 - Jul 10 with 1239 viewsPendejo

80 years ago today on 09:59 - Jul 10 by ChiefXL

Fighting over your own territory helps too.
RAF pilot parachutes out over Kent? He's back flying the next day.
A Luftwaffe pilot parachutes out over Kent? "Vell for you, Fritz, ze var is over"


Should stress not all pilots were Brits were they

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few

Others had already lost their countries - more desire to fight

Many from Empire / Commonwealth countries never in danger from Nazi Germany

uberima fides
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80 years ago today on 10:17 - Jul 10 with 1229 viewsKeno

80 years ago today on 09:46 - Jul 10 by Pendejo

Radar
Hurricanes
Spitfires
Multinational pilots fighting for freedom

Never, in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few.


add Bletchley Park to that list

plus we didn't have an incompetent, self glorifying leadership

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80 years ago today on 10:28 - Jul 10 with 1214 viewsmanchego

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle
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80 years ago today on 10:30 - Jul 10 with 1212 viewsfooters

Whoever said it yesterday had it spot on, we need to move on from the world wars and start looking forward. Nothing wrong in remembering and being thankful for the sacrifices made, but it being such a big part of our national identity is a bit odd.

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80 years ago today on 10:34 - Jul 10 with 1203 viewsBlueBadger

80 years ago today on 10:17 - Jul 10 by Keno

add Bletchley Park to that list

plus we didn't have an incompetent, self glorifying leadership


...and here comes the 15-pager about Churchill...

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80 years ago today on 10:37 - Jul 10 with 1192 viewsKeno

80 years ago today on 10:34 - Jul 10 by BlueBadger

...and here comes the 15-pager about Churchill...


ha!

I wasn't thinking of Churchill when I wrote that

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80 years ago today on 11:03 - Jul 10 with 1163 viewsDarth_Koont

80 years ago today on 10:30 - Jul 10 by footers

Whoever said it yesterday had it spot on, we need to move on from the world wars and start looking forward. Nothing wrong in remembering and being thankful for the sacrifices made, but it being such a big part of our national identity is a bit odd.


Indeed. I actually think the US self-image is slightly healthier than ours - which is saying something.

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80 years ago today on 11:11 - Jul 10 with 1143 viewssolomon

80 years ago today on 10:30 - Jul 10 by footers

Whoever said it yesterday had it spot on, we need to move on from the world wars and start looking forward. Nothing wrong in remembering and being thankful for the sacrifices made, but it being such a big part of our national identity is a bit odd.


Maybe. But what’s more important here than any other conflict is the fight against a truly horrific enemy who’s sole aim was to crush and enslave and exterminate those it considered inferior. If we don’t remind ourselves it will be forgotten only for it to happen again.
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80 years ago today on 11:50 - Jul 10 with 1121 viewsChiefXL

80 years ago today on 10:11 - Jul 10 by Pendejo

Should stress not all pilots were Brits were they

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few

Others had already lost their countries - more desire to fight

Many from Empire / Commonwealth countries never in danger from Nazi Germany


I didn't say they were?
I said RAF pilots
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80 years ago today on 12:34 - Jul 10 with 1073 viewsElephantintheRoom

Or another example of how history is rewritten by the victors.

The Battle of Britain was a few aerial largely incosequential skirmishes spread out over many months before it petered out at different times, depensing on whether you were German or 'British' as we tend to forget the large number of Europeans, colonials and Americans who bolstered our pitiful number of pilots. The few were never overstretched as so few were ever needed - 90% of RAF fighter pilots shot down 1 plane or less in this mighty conflict.

If Harry Hawker hadn't built the Hurricane as a private venture 'we' would have been countering the wheezing ME109s operating at the limit of their range for upwards of 2 minutes with Gloucester Gladiator biplanes, not to mention the RAF's preference to the Hurricane.... the Bolton Paul Defiant with no forward firing guns.

The French Air force shot down far more German planes in the much shorter but rather more intense 'Battle of France' with hugely inferior planes to the Spitfir and Hurricane.....but when did reality every intrude in our cock-eyed version of WW2?

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80 years ago today on 12:41 - Jul 10 with 1055 viewsRadlett_blue

80 years ago today on 07:20 - Jul 10 by MattinLondon

Quite an interesting fact is that Britain ramped up factory production of aircraft and by October 1940 Fighter Command had more fighter planes than the Luftwaffe.


Shortage of pilots, especially experienced ones, was probably a bigger issue for the Germans for, as the poster above said, if a German pilot bailed out, that was usually game over for him. German pilots obviously had far less time for combat over Britain, given the need to have enough fuel to return across the Channel.

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80 years ago today on 12:58 - Jul 10 with 1027 viewshampstead_blue

80 years ago today on 10:30 - Jul 10 by footers

Whoever said it yesterday had it spot on, we need to move on from the world wars and start looking forward. Nothing wrong in remembering and being thankful for the sacrifices made, but it being such a big part of our national identity is a bit odd.


You make a good point.

In the veterans world there is still so much remorse for the great wars it's annoying.
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Better to remember and support the injured and those who've been affected by recent conflicts than digging-in (pun intended) to the early 20th Century

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80 years ago today on 13:23 - Jul 10 with 1002 viewsChiefXL

80 years ago today on 12:34 - Jul 10 by ElephantintheRoom

Or another example of how history is rewritten by the victors.

The Battle of Britain was a few aerial largely incosequential skirmishes spread out over many months before it petered out at different times, depensing on whether you were German or 'British' as we tend to forget the large number of Europeans, colonials and Americans who bolstered our pitiful number of pilots. The few were never overstretched as so few were ever needed - 90% of RAF fighter pilots shot down 1 plane or less in this mighty conflict.

If Harry Hawker hadn't built the Hurricane as a private venture 'we' would have been countering the wheezing ME109s operating at the limit of their range for upwards of 2 minutes with Gloucester Gladiator biplanes, not to mention the RAF's preference to the Hurricane.... the Bolton Paul Defiant with no forward firing guns.

The French Air force shot down far more German planes in the much shorter but rather more intense 'Battle of France' with hugely inferior planes to the Spitfir and Hurricane.....but when did reality every intrude in our cock-eyed version of WW2?


I don't think generally we do forget the contribution on non-British pilots in the Battle of Britain. Especially when compared to the general idea of WWll as a whole, particularly the period where we 'stood alone' from 1939 to 1942. Yes it was just us and 8 million others from the Dominions. The Battle of Britain for me is the one aspect of the war where the contribution of other nationalities has always been recognised the most. But that is just my experience.

To downplay the Battle seems slightly revisionist to me. Although logistically almost impossible Operation Sea Lion was a very real threat following the fall of France. The RAF prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority and therefore making Sea Lion untenable. With conquest of the UK now impossible Hitler turned his attention eastward and launches Operation Barbarossa against the Soviets which really marks the beginning of the end for the Nazis.

Not really sure about your point towards the Hurricane. It existed by the start of the war so the 'what if' factor seems merely a distraction. Additionally by the Battle of Britain the Spitfire was also in service too.

At the outbreak of WWll France had the world's largest military. far larger than Germany or the UK's. So they should have shot down as many German planes as they did. It's just a shame their army performed so badly against the Wehrmacht and their Blitzkrieg tactics despite having plenty of examples on what to expect from Poland.

And finally, the ME109 had a range that gave them approx. fifteen minutes flying time over England, not two.

But other than that, bang on x
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80 years ago today on 16:12 - Jul 10 with 942 viewsElephantintheRoom

80 years ago today on 13:23 - Jul 10 by ChiefXL

I don't think generally we do forget the contribution on non-British pilots in the Battle of Britain. Especially when compared to the general idea of WWll as a whole, particularly the period where we 'stood alone' from 1939 to 1942. Yes it was just us and 8 million others from the Dominions. The Battle of Britain for me is the one aspect of the war where the contribution of other nationalities has always been recognised the most. But that is just my experience.

To downplay the Battle seems slightly revisionist to me. Although logistically almost impossible Operation Sea Lion was a very real threat following the fall of France. The RAF prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority and therefore making Sea Lion untenable. With conquest of the UK now impossible Hitler turned his attention eastward and launches Operation Barbarossa against the Soviets which really marks the beginning of the end for the Nazis.

Not really sure about your point towards the Hurricane. It existed by the start of the war so the 'what if' factor seems merely a distraction. Additionally by the Battle of Britain the Spitfire was also in service too.

At the outbreak of WWll France had the world's largest military. far larger than Germany or the UK's. So they should have shot down as many German planes as they did. It's just a shame their army performed so badly against the Wehrmacht and their Blitzkrieg tactics despite having plenty of examples on what to expect from Poland.

And finally, the ME109 had a range that gave them approx. fifteen minutes flying time over England, not two.

But other than that, bang on x


The recent anniversary of VE Day was interesting around here. In an area saturated with airfields, including Duxford, where the USAAF and assorted Poles and Czechs were stationed, not to mention the plethora of 8th Air Force Bases, there was no bunting of any sort other than Union Jacks.

The French also had a powerful fleet.... shelled wthout warning by their British allies whilst in port in Algeria. The resultant casualties from this war crime were not far short of the American losses at Pearl Harbour.... not much mention of this in our glorious history either

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80 years ago today on 16:17 - Jul 10 with 936 viewsSpruceMoose

80 years ago today on 12:34 - Jul 10 by ElephantintheRoom

Or another example of how history is rewritten by the victors.

The Battle of Britain was a few aerial largely incosequential skirmishes spread out over many months before it petered out at different times, depensing on whether you were German or 'British' as we tend to forget the large number of Europeans, colonials and Americans who bolstered our pitiful number of pilots. The few were never overstretched as so few were ever needed - 90% of RAF fighter pilots shot down 1 plane or less in this mighty conflict.

If Harry Hawker hadn't built the Hurricane as a private venture 'we' would have been countering the wheezing ME109s operating at the limit of their range for upwards of 2 minutes with Gloucester Gladiator biplanes, not to mention the RAF's preference to the Hurricane.... the Bolton Paul Defiant with no forward firing guns.

The French Air force shot down far more German planes in the much shorter but rather more intense 'Battle of France' with hugely inferior planes to the Spitfir and Hurricane.....but when did reality every intrude in our cock-eyed version of WW2?


Good god. Is there anything you don't feel the need to be contrary about? I'm surprised you haven't PM'd me yet to tell me that my name should be SpruceElk.

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80 years ago today on 16:21 - Jul 10 with 927 viewsEdwardStone

80 years ago today on 16:12 - Jul 10 by ElephantintheRoom

The recent anniversary of VE Day was interesting around here. In an area saturated with airfields, including Duxford, where the USAAF and assorted Poles and Czechs were stationed, not to mention the plethora of 8th Air Force Bases, there was no bunting of any sort other than Union Jacks.

The French also had a powerful fleet.... shelled wthout warning by their British allies whilst in port in Algeria. The resultant casualties from this war crime were not far short of the American losses at Pearl Harbour.... not much mention of this in our glorious history either


The French Navy at Oran were given ample time and multiple opportunities to join the British fleet or hand over their ships, or indeed scuttle them to put them beyond use by the Germans

The French repeatedly refused to meet or speak with our representatives who were busting a gut to prevent bloodshed

Because of French intransigence bloodshed ensued
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80 years ago today on 17:01 - Jul 10 with 897 viewsChiefXL

80 years ago today on 16:12 - Jul 10 by ElephantintheRoom

The recent anniversary of VE Day was interesting around here. In an area saturated with airfields, including Duxford, where the USAAF and assorted Poles and Czechs were stationed, not to mention the plethora of 8th Air Force Bases, there was no bunting of any sort other than Union Jacks.

The French also had a powerful fleet.... shelled wthout warning by their British allies whilst in port in Algeria. The resultant casualties from this war crime were not far short of the American losses at Pearl Harbour.... not much mention of this in our glorious history either


Without warning?
Do you want to go away and do some research about that then come back and retract your statement or is this the hill you're choosing to die on?
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80 years ago today on 17:03 - Jul 10 with 897 viewsChiefXL

80 years ago today on 16:17 - Jul 10 by SpruceMoose

Good god. Is there anything you don't feel the need to be contrary about? I'm surprised you haven't PM'd me yet to tell me that my name should be SpruceElk.


As someone who is a crusty, contrary old swine myself I have no issue with someone else acting the same way.
But some of these statements are wildly inaccurate and frankly ludicrous.
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80 years ago today on 17:35 - Jul 10 with 859 viewsKievthegreat

80 years ago today on 13:23 - Jul 10 by ChiefXL

I don't think generally we do forget the contribution on non-British pilots in the Battle of Britain. Especially when compared to the general idea of WWll as a whole, particularly the period where we 'stood alone' from 1939 to 1942. Yes it was just us and 8 million others from the Dominions. The Battle of Britain for me is the one aspect of the war where the contribution of other nationalities has always been recognised the most. But that is just my experience.

To downplay the Battle seems slightly revisionist to me. Although logistically almost impossible Operation Sea Lion was a very real threat following the fall of France. The RAF prevented the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority and therefore making Sea Lion untenable. With conquest of the UK now impossible Hitler turned his attention eastward and launches Operation Barbarossa against the Soviets which really marks the beginning of the end for the Nazis.

Not really sure about your point towards the Hurricane. It existed by the start of the war so the 'what if' factor seems merely a distraction. Additionally by the Battle of Britain the Spitfire was also in service too.

At the outbreak of WWll France had the world's largest military. far larger than Germany or the UK's. So they should have shot down as many German planes as they did. It's just a shame their army performed so badly against the Wehrmacht and their Blitzkrieg tactics despite having plenty of examples on what to expect from Poland.

And finally, the ME109 had a range that gave them approx. fifteen minutes flying time over England, not two.

But other than that, bang on x


And more German planes were lost in the battle of Britain than the battle of France. I think near enough every "fact" was wrong.
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80 years ago today on 18:16 - Jul 10 with 840 viewsWeWereZombies

80 years ago today on 16:21 - Jul 10 by EdwardStone

The French Navy at Oran were given ample time and multiple opportunities to join the British fleet or hand over their ships, or indeed scuttle them to put them beyond use by the Germans

The French repeatedly refused to meet or speak with our representatives who were busting a gut to prevent bloodshed

Because of French intransigence bloodshed ensued


The attack on Mers-el-Kébir was not comparable to Pearl Harbour in the way 'Elephant_in_the_Room' insinuated (two dead compared to sixty four for instance, still two too many but...), however it should also be borne in mind that there was a power struggle within French government that filtered down into their forces so I think we should draw short of levelling the charge of intransigence at all of France. And this was the event that led to the decision at Vichy five days later.

It is worth bearing in mind also that the French did scuttle their ships at Toulon a couple of years later when the Nazis and Italians attempted to undermine the tacit truce between Britain and France in the Mediterranean.

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80 years ago today on 18:39 - Jul 10 with 823 viewsEdwardStone

80 years ago today on 18:16 - Jul 10 by WeWereZombies

The attack on Mers-el-Kébir was not comparable to Pearl Harbour in the way 'Elephant_in_the_Room' insinuated (two dead compared to sixty four for instance, still two too many but...), however it should also be borne in mind that there was a power struggle within French government that filtered down into their forces so I think we should draw short of levelling the charge of intransigence at all of France. And this was the event that led to the decision at Vichy five days later.

It is worth bearing in mind also that the French did scuttle their ships at Toulon a couple of years later when the Nazis and Italians attempted to undermine the tacit truce between Britain and France in the Mediterranean.


Not all of France, but their High Command made some pitiful choices in July 1940

As a slight side effect, it is alleged that the decision to shell the French fleet helped to convince the US Government to join in the War....it showed that we were prepared to kill our Allies in order to achieve best outcome, or possibly least worst outcome, we weren't just going to roll over

A truly regrettable episode in the war....highly preventable and yet it still happened due to poor judgement

See also the invasion of Madagascar 1942.
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