| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... 16:22 - Jul 10 with 3111 views | SpruceMoose |
...has had an apology from the police.
Rightly so too. It seems the instruction to Flynn to cover her T-shirt and the brief detention to give that direction were indeed unlawful. - despite what some were saying on here!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/10/police-apologise-woman-told-cove [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 16:22]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 16:28 - Jul 10 with 1856 views | BlueBadger |
I'm sure the 'what about my freez peach' crowd will welcome this news. |  |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:10 - Jul 10 with 1800 views | farkenhell |
I have to say this sits very uncomfortably with me. Putting politics, and whether or not you agree with the general tenor of the message, firmly to one side, displaying the words "F**K [insert here]" in a public place surely cannot be right? I would be aggrieved, to say the least, if my impressionable 8-year old boy happened to see someone wearing a T-shirt like this.
What next - a giant-sized banner proclaiming "You're a C**T"? (which might be accurate, but I hope you can see my point!)
Am I missing something?
(Apologies if this has already been discussed here, have no wish to re-open a debate that has already been had) |  | | |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:28 - Jul 10 with 1759 views | sparks |
The points made on here remain entirely fair. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:30 - Jul 10 with 1754 views | SpruceMoose |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:28 - Jul 10 by sparks |
The points made on here remain entirely fair. |
Apart from the points supporting the police. Those ones were all wrong, as the apology demonstrates. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:36 - Jul 10 with 1733 views | SpruceMoose |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:10 - Jul 10 by farkenhell |
I have to say this sits very uncomfortably with me. Putting politics, and whether or not you agree with the general tenor of the message, firmly to one side, displaying the words "F**K [insert here]" in a public place surely cannot be right? I would be aggrieved, to say the least, if my impressionable 8-year old boy happened to see someone wearing a T-shirt like this.
What next - a giant-sized banner proclaiming "You're a C**T"? (which might be accurate, but I hope you can see my point!)
Am I missing something?
(Apologies if this has already been discussed here, have no wish to re-open a debate that has already been had) |
I hear what you're saying, but is it really any worse than many other things a child sees while out in public though? I'm thinking of gambling shops, homelessness, blatant discrimination. Or is it that those things are easier to ignore, or maybe people are just more used to them?
As unpleasant as some people might find it, it could be treated as a learning experience. The things that people should find upsetting are the underlying issues that result in people feeling like they need to wear a T-shirt with a swear word on it. [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 17:37]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:00 - Jul 10 with 1698 views | sparks |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:30 - Jul 10 by SpruceMoose |
Apart from the points supporting the police. Those ones were all wrong, as the apology demonstrates. |
Nope. All opinion.
And we are regrettably in an age of trying to drag apologies out of people for doing their jobs. Which is problematic. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:06 - Jul 10 with 1686 views | SpruceMoose |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:00 - Jul 10 by sparks |
Nope. All opinion.
And we are regrettably in an age of trying to drag apologies out of people for doing their jobs. Which is problematic. |
The police disagree with you.
I know you don't liked being wrong Bully, especially on your self proclaimed specialist subject (no, not Eddie Howe!) but you are human and not a superhero.
So, you can 'nope' all you like, it makes no difference, you were wrong and you should perhaps reconsider your stance as an apologist for police doing their job incorrectly. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:07 - Jul 10 with 1678 views | Darth_Koont |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:00 - Jul 10 by sparks |
Nope. All opinion.
And we are regrettably in an age of trying to drag apologies out of people for doing their jobs. Which is problematic. |
But they literally weren’t doing their job. |  |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:09 - Jul 10 with 1671 views | SpruceMoose |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:07 - Jul 10 by Darth_Koont |
But they literally weren’t doing their job. |
Clearly that's unimportant in comparison to Bully's feelings on the subject. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:10 - Jul 10 with 1664 views | Darth_Koont |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:09 - Jul 10 by SpruceMoose |
Clearly that's unimportant in comparison to Bully's feelings on the subject. |
Too many snowflakes on here clearly. | |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:58 - Jul 10 with 1590 views | WeWereZombies |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:36 - Jul 10 by SpruceMoose |
I hear what you're saying, but is it really any worse than many other things a child sees while out in public though? I'm thinking of gambling shops, homelessness, blatant discrimination. Or is it that those things are easier to ignore, or maybe people are just more used to them?
As unpleasant as some people might find it, it could be treated as a learning experience. The things that people should find upsetting are the underlying issues that result in people feeling like they need to wear a T-shirt with a swear word on it. [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 17:37]
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Isn't this a slippery slope position? You could be accused of being happy to put up with sweary T-shirts and then expected to not do anything about gambling shops, homelessness, blatant discrimination and thousands of other things young eyes might see.
All of those other things should be corrected first I grant you but public sweariness is easier to correct there and then by reminding the alleged perpetrator that their standards are not accepted by all. But not everyone is prepared to comply, are they? |  |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 19:12 - Jul 10 with 1564 views | SpruceMoose |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 18:58 - Jul 10 by WeWereZombies |
Isn't this a slippery slope position? You could be accused of being happy to put up with sweary T-shirts and then expected to not do anything about gambling shops, homelessness, blatant discrimination and thousands of other things young eyes might see.
All of those other things should be corrected first I grant you but public sweariness is easier to correct there and then by reminding the alleged perpetrator that their standards are not accepted by all. But not everyone is prepared to comply, are they? |
I don't think it is. I'm merely pointing out that people often have (to me at least) unusual ideas about what is offensive for children to see when you consider some of the things society is willing to turn a blind eye to.
People are quite welcome and within their rights to remind the wearer of the T-Shirt that what she considers to be acceptable isn't what everyone else finds acceptable, but what they (or the police) don't have the right to do is demand that she cover it up based on some arbitrary taste level they've decided for themselves.
I find Norwich shirts (and Nirvana shirts worn by anyone born after 1990) to be offensive when worn in public, but sadly I can't demand they be banned! [Post edited 10 Jul 2020 19:14]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 19:13 - Jul 10 with 1560 views | TractorWood |
Policemen aren't lawyers. They should be challenged when pursuing trivial things like, for example a t-shirt slogan. |  |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 19:25 - Jul 10 with 1530 views | Libero |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:10 - Jul 10 by farkenhell |
I have to say this sits very uncomfortably with me. Putting politics, and whether or not you agree with the general tenor of the message, firmly to one side, displaying the words "F**K [insert here]" in a public place surely cannot be right? I would be aggrieved, to say the least, if my impressionable 8-year old boy happened to see someone wearing a T-shirt like this.
What next - a giant-sized banner proclaiming "You're a C**T"? (which might be accurate, but I hope you can see my point!)
Am I missing something?
(Apologies if this has already been discussed here, have no wish to re-open a debate that has already been had) |
Your impressionable 8- year old boy happens to hear worse everyday at school, don’t be such a fanny.
Maybe focus on concerning yourself that your child understands context and proportionality instead of going all Mary Whitehouse because someone’s wearing a t-shirt with a naughty word on. |  | | |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 00:56 - Jul 11 with 1396 views | farkenhell |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 19:25 - Jul 10 by Libero |
Your impressionable 8- year old boy happens to hear worse everyday at school, don’t be such a fanny.
Maybe focus on concerning yourself that your child understands context and proportionality instead of going all Mary Whitehouse because someone’s wearing a t-shirt with a naughty word on. |
Thank you for that rational, thoughtful and considered advice. | | | |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:29 - Jul 11 with 1378 views | jeera |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 19:25 - Jul 10 by Libero |
Your impressionable 8- year old boy happens to hear worse everyday at school, don’t be such a fanny.
Maybe focus on concerning yourself that your child understands context and proportionality instead of going all Mary Whitehouse because someone’s wearing a t-shirt with a naughty word on. |
This is one of those unusual occasions I disagree with you, Darth and Spruce.
I'm not interested in other people deciding for me what young members of my family should or shouldn't be subjected to.
If a nearby table in a restaurant were effing in front of my family I would ask them to stop.
It's basic respect - it's not hard.
There are no circumstances why anyone over the age of 14 should want to make some statement on their t-shirt in a public place using swear words. It's not other people who need to grow up there, but her.
That she was even offended by being asked to cover up made her look like a brat to me.
Very 'look at me' for the sake of it and she proved nothing. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 1:31]
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:42 - Jul 11 with 1360 views | SpruceMoose |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:29 - Jul 11 by jeera |
This is one of those unusual occasions I disagree with you, Darth and Spruce.
I'm not interested in other people deciding for me what young members of my family should or shouldn't be subjected to.
If a nearby table in a restaurant were effing in front of my family I would ask them to stop.
It's basic respect - it's not hard.
There are no circumstances why anyone over the age of 14 should want to make some statement on their t-shirt in a public place using swear words. It's not other people who need to grow up there, but her.
That she was even offended by being asked to cover up made her look like a brat to me.
Very 'look at me' for the sake of it and she proved nothing. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 1:31]
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I don't disagree with you Jeera me old mate. I'd fully support you in telling whoever was effing and jeffing in a restaurant to pipe down. It's not the place for that kind of thing.
I think the situation you describe is different to wearing an item of clothing on the way to/from a political protest though, and I certainly wouldn't support you if you want to call the rozzers to the restaurant to deal with some distasteful language.
I wonder if someone feeling to need to wear this shirt in public is a reflection of the fact that people feel ignored and powerless to push back against the corrupt b'stards in power, and that they feel unable to prevent all these abuses that they see - be it political, judicial, environmental. I see it as a sign of frustration and I can sympathise with doing away with decorum and politeness under those circumstances. Saying that, I can also see why people might think that it's a step too far.
For me it comes down to a) the police had no business being involved and b) the thing being protested being far more offensive than the method of protest. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 1:46]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:52 - Jul 11 with 1349 views | jeera |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:42 - Jul 11 by SpruceMoose |
I don't disagree with you Jeera me old mate. I'd fully support you in telling whoever was effing and jeffing in a restaurant to pipe down. It's not the place for that kind of thing.
I think the situation you describe is different to wearing an item of clothing on the way to/from a political protest though, and I certainly wouldn't support you if you want to call the rozzers to the restaurant to deal with some distasteful language.
I wonder if someone feeling to need to wear this shirt in public is a reflection of the fact that people feel ignored and powerless to push back against the corrupt b'stards in power, and that they feel unable to prevent all these abuses that they see - be it political, judicial, environmental. I see it as a sign of frustration and I can sympathise with doing away with decorum and politeness under those circumstances. Saying that, I can also see why people might think that it's a step too far.
For me it comes down to a) the police had no business being involved and b) the thing being protested being far more offensive than the method of protest. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 1:46]
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"I wonder if someone feeling to need to wear this shirt in public is a reflection of the fact that people feel ignored and powerless to push back against the corrupt b'stards in power, and that they feel unable to prevent all these abuses that they see - be it political, judicial, environmental. I see it as a sign of frustration and I can sympathise with doing away with decorum and politeness under those circumstances. Saying that, I can also see why people might think that it's a step too far."
There's not a word of that I disagree with.
Except direct it at those intended targets on your protest and don't take out your frustrations on people just going about their day with their kids. Her t-shirt wasn't directly relevant to the protest it's important to point out, so there's no confusion.
As an adult she has a responsibility.
Maybe the copper could have asked her instead of attempting to push it when she refused. I'd have been tempted to suggest it to her rather than make it an issue of law.
I'm not even put out or feeling snotty about it, if I were I would say so. I think she came across like a silly girl who wanted to make a big fuss when asked to show a little dignity towards others.
Edit: bit of context from my point of view.
Ex-market trader etc and unfortunately I tend to swear too much at times. But I am conscientious in certain situations, like most people.
Late '80s/early 90s novelty t-shirts were a thing, (yes, I know, not my fault).
We sold so many of those damn things on a Sunday at Felixstowe as a mere side line.
The ruder ones I would place more discreetly than others; they were there for sale and sell they did, but I purposely didn't shove those out the front on full public display. Maybe that's me, but I think there's a time and a place and all that sometimes. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 2:31]
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:59 - Jul 11 with 1336 views | jeera |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:52 - Jul 11 by jeera |
"I wonder if someone feeling to need to wear this shirt in public is a reflection of the fact that people feel ignored and powerless to push back against the corrupt b'stards in power, and that they feel unable to prevent all these abuses that they see - be it political, judicial, environmental. I see it as a sign of frustration and I can sympathise with doing away with decorum and politeness under those circumstances. Saying that, I can also see why people might think that it's a step too far."
There's not a word of that I disagree with.
Except direct it at those intended targets on your protest and don't take out your frustrations on people just going about their day with their kids. Her t-shirt wasn't directly relevant to the protest it's important to point out, so there's no confusion.
As an adult she has a responsibility.
Maybe the copper could have asked her instead of attempting to push it when she refused. I'd have been tempted to suggest it to her rather than make it an issue of law.
I'm not even put out or feeling snotty about it, if I were I would say so. I think she came across like a silly girl who wanted to make a big fuss when asked to show a little dignity towards others.
Edit: bit of context from my point of view.
Ex-market trader etc and unfortunately I tend to swear too much at times. But I am conscientious in certain situations, like most people.
Late '80s/early 90s novelty t-shirts were a thing, (yes, I know, not my fault).
We sold so many of those damn things on a Sunday at Felixstowe as a mere side line.
The ruder ones I would place more discreetly than others; they were there for sale and sell they did, but I purposely didn't shove those out the front on full public display. Maybe that's me, but I think there's a time and a place and all that sometimes. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 2:31]
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 07:24 - Jul 11 with 1249 views | Herbivore |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 17:10 - Jul 10 by farkenhell |
I have to say this sits very uncomfortably with me. Putting politics, and whether or not you agree with the general tenor of the message, firmly to one side, displaying the words "F**K [insert here]" in a public place surely cannot be right? I would be aggrieved, to say the least, if my impressionable 8-year old boy happened to see someone wearing a T-shirt like this.
What next - a giant-sized banner proclaiming "You're a C**T"? (which might be accurate, but I hope you can see my point!)
Am I missing something?
(Apologies if this has already been discussed here, have no wish to re-open a debate that has already been had) |
I hate to break this to you, but your 8 year old already knows the word f*ck. |  |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 08:08 - Jul 11 with 1214 views | BlueRaider |
I think the police were right to intervene given the obscenity on her T-shirt, if it had said something like 'I hate Boris', then no problem | |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 08:23 - Jul 11 with 1192 views | Kropotkin123 |
I get both side of the discussion. My personal viewpoint is that if the police had simply said "could you cover the profanity on you t-shirt, as you are away from the rally now" then it would be okay. Even if you think it is an overreaction, the request is not a bad one.
But the big issue for me is the police quoting whatever laws they want to try and apply undue and unreasonable pressure. To threaten her with arrest is a massive breach of power and they should be held to account for it, as they have.
It is part of a wider issue of policing around protests. For example using anti-terrorism laws to limit the scope of protests when we all know protestors aren't terrorists. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 8:43]
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 12:36 - Jul 11 with 1068 views | Darth_Koont |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:59 - Jul 11 by jeera |
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Upvoted for one of my favourite cartoons ever. | |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 12:43 - Jul 11 with 1055 views | Darth_Koont |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 01:42 - Jul 11 by SpruceMoose |
I don't disagree with you Jeera me old mate. I'd fully support you in telling whoever was effing and jeffing in a restaurant to pipe down. It's not the place for that kind of thing.
I think the situation you describe is different to wearing an item of clothing on the way to/from a political protest though, and I certainly wouldn't support you if you want to call the rozzers to the restaurant to deal with some distasteful language.
I wonder if someone feeling to need to wear this shirt in public is a reflection of the fact that people feel ignored and powerless to push back against the corrupt b'stards in power, and that they feel unable to prevent all these abuses that they see - be it political, judicial, environmental. I see it as a sign of frustration and I can sympathise with doing away with decorum and politeness under those circumstances. Saying that, I can also see why people might think that it's a step too far.
For me it comes down to a) the police had no business being involved and b) the thing being protested being far more offensive than the method of protest. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 1:46]
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Yep. Same here.
I agree that social responsibility starts and ends with all of us so as individuals we should never hesitate to speak out about what we find unacceptable. I've spoken out if someone drops litter, swears in the wrong public context or doesn't respect other people's space and rights.
The issue for me is that this particular area just isn't the police's job. But I certainly think the protestor could have been less of an @rse about it too. | |
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| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 15:03 - Jul 11 with 988 views | jeera |
| I see the woman who was told by police to cover up her anti-Johnson T-Shirt... on 12:36 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
Upvoted for one of my favourite cartoons ever. |
I loved this as a kid but it often springs to mind when I'm on here.
You know, the logging in and the disagreements start!
Log off and it's done.
We all have a role to play! | |
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