| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader 11:58 - Jul 11 with 2162 views | tractordownsouth |
I didn't have strong views on their leadership contest before, but this is a sensible statement when you contrast it with Layla Moran talking about targeting the Labour vote.
When you consider that 18 of the top 20 Lib Dem targets are Tory held, then Layla Moran's pitch of being untainted by the coalition, whilst a good point, is unlikely to be hold much traction in the areas they need to win. The Lib Dems need to focus on liberal economic Tories who are against the idea of Johnson/Cummings, if they are to maintain electoral relvenace.
Davey also makes the point that in Tory areas, the idea of a Starmer-led govt is likely to be more appealing than a Corbyn administration was to potential tactical voters. I don't think a full-scale pact would work, as the parties have different voter bases, but if they could each stand aside in 2 or 3 seats to defeat high profile Tories in key marginals where the vote was split last time, then that would be beneficial.
Tactical voting worked for the right in 2019, so the centre-left should follow suit. [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 12:01]
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:06 - Jul 11 with 1849 views | Darth_Koont |
Yawn. I've got a distinct sense that we've seen all this jockeying around the centre before.
Here's an idea - why don't the LibDems and Labour stop chasing the vote rightwards and actually spend the next few years promoting healthier, more progressive and more sustainable policies? Then they won't be suckered into playing on Tory home turf. |  |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:15 - Jul 11 with 1809 views | GlasgowBlue |
This will upset those on the lunatic fringe of left wing politics. |  |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:19 - Jul 11 with 1803 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:15 - Jul 11 by GlasgowBlue |
This will upset those on the lunatic fringe of left wing politics. |
Or those who want the alternative of European-style social democracy rather than this weak, watered down nonsense.
This ineffectual posturing will just accelerate Scotland leaving. But the UK as a whole deserves far better. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:19 - Jul 11 with 1795 views | tractordownsouth |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:06 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
Yawn. I've got a distinct sense that we've seen all this jockeying around the centre before.
Here's an idea - why don't the LibDems and Labour stop chasing the vote rightwards and actually spend the next few years promoting healthier, more progressive and more sustainable policies? Then they won't be suckered into playing on Tory home turf. |
Labour can't chase the vote leftwards - we tried that and it ended in the worst defeat since WW2. Besides, Labour are stilll championing progressive policies, it's not an either/or.
And I'm not advocating the Lib Dems move to the right - their last 2 manifestos were centrist ones which attracted support from both sides of the spectrum. Sure, they didn't get nearly enough support as they'll need to make themselves serious contenders again, but if they tagret and eat into the Labour vote then all it does is splits it for the Tories particularly in those areas where a left wing agenda won't win but a centre-left one possibly will. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:26 - Jul 11 with 1766 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:19 - Jul 11 by tractordownsouth |
Labour can't chase the vote leftwards - we tried that and it ended in the worst defeat since WW2. Besides, Labour are stilll championing progressive policies, it's not an either/or.
And I'm not advocating the Lib Dems move to the right - their last 2 manifestos were centrist ones which attracted support from both sides of the spectrum. Sure, they didn't get nearly enough support as they'll need to make themselves serious contenders again, but if they tagret and eat into the Labour vote then all it does is splits it for the Tories particularly in those areas where a left wing agenda won't win but a centre-left one possibly will. |
I'm increasingly unconvinced that Starmer will stick to his progressive policy platform.
This looks like Blair all over again and we'll see the same lip service to structural inequality as the real work will be convincing the Establishment that Labour is a safer pair of hands for their interests than the Tories.
"Better than the Tories" - that's almost certain. But wake me up when they start acting like a 21st century party that understands the real challenges facing the UK and the world. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:59 - Jul 11 with 1721 views | CBBlue |
Hmmm interesting. I'm a paid up member of the LibDems and since Starmer came in I'm seriously thinking about switching my vote next time to Labour to get rid of the Tories (something I just couldn't bring myself to do under Corbyn).
I think this is a good move by Ed, there's no point trying to win Labour voters now they've become a bit more centralist under Starmer. |  |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:07 - Jul 11 with 1687 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 12:26 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
I'm increasingly unconvinced that Starmer will stick to his progressive policy platform.
This looks like Blair all over again and we'll see the same lip service to structural inequality as the real work will be convincing the Establishment that Labour is a safer pair of hands for their interests than the Tories.
"Better than the Tories" - that's almost certain. But wake me up when they start acting like a 21st century party that understands the real challenges facing the UK and the world. |
If looking like Blair all over again means actually winning an election and implementing policies that improve the lives of millions, then I’ll take that over another crushing defeat and 5 more years of this shower |  |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:14 - Jul 11 with 1666 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:07 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
If looking like Blair all over again means actually winning an election and implementing policies that improve the lives of millions, then I’ll take that over another crushing defeat and 5 more years of this shower |
And a continuation of the same structural inequalities?
Why not have a Tory defeat and a new way forward? Labour has likely 4 years to present a better vision and future for the UK but they worryingly look like they've already given up on that. If that was ever even a goal. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:21 - Jul 11 with 1629 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:14 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
And a continuation of the same structural inequalities?
Why not have a Tory defeat and a new way forward? Labour has likely 4 years to present a better vision and future for the UK but they worryingly look like they've already given up on that. If that was ever even a goal. |
Because it has been proven time and time again to be complete fantasy | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:25 - Jul 11 with 1618 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:21 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Because it has been proven time and time again to be complete fantasy |
How did Labour increase their vote share in 2017 then? How have the SNP obliterated the other mainstream parties in Scotland?
I think your fantasy is actually more of a delusion. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:30 - Jul 11 with 1598 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:25 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
How did Labour increase their vote share in 2017 then? How have the SNP obliterated the other mainstream parties in Scotland?
I think your fantasy is actually more of a delusion. |
1) Because the onset of the social media age has led to politics in this country becoming more of a two horse race than ever before, and an increasing attitude that if you’re not voting for one then you’re voting for the other. This is why just looking at then number of votes massively misses the point
2) By pursuing a populist line to breakaway from the UK bogeyman, much as has happened in England with the EU bogeyman
Agree fully with your last line - your ideas are delusional | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:35 - Jul 11 with 1578 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:30 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
1) Because the onset of the social media age has led to politics in this country becoming more of a two horse race than ever before, and an increasing attitude that if you’re not voting for one then you’re voting for the other. This is why just looking at then number of votes massively misses the point
2) By pursuing a populist line to breakaway from the UK bogeyman, much as has happened in England with the EU bogeyman
Agree fully with your last line - your ideas are delusional |
Pure head in the sand stuff.
Whatever lets you sleep at night. 5 million kids in poverty by 2021, huge regional and income inequality, low productivity, a lack of affordable housing etc. etc.... but sure let's keep playing the same game and expecting a different result.
"Well said Keir" | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:41 - Jul 11 with 1545 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:35 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
Pure head in the sand stuff.
Whatever lets you sleep at night. 5 million kids in poverty by 2021, huge regional and income inequality, low productivity, a lack of affordable housing etc. etc.... but sure let's keep playing the same game and expecting a different result.
"Well said Keir" |
Literally everything you have said their applies to your viewpoint
Labour pursuing the same strategy will lead to another inevitable defeat, more Tory rule and more kids in poverty. It’s been proven time and time again - and yet you accuse others of burying their head in the sand
Whereas under New Labour who actually bothered to try and get elected...
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:49 - Jul 11 with 1523 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:41 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Literally everything you have said their applies to your viewpoint
Labour pursuing the same strategy will lead to another inevitable defeat, more Tory rule and more kids in poverty. It’s been proven time and time again - and yet you accuse others of burying their head in the sand
Whereas under New Labour who actually bothered to try and get elected...
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New Labour was a one-time only deal that capitalised on historic Labour support while courting the centre and centre-right.
It left a void that the SNP walked into and unfortunately in England disillusionment and disenfranchisement that the xenophobes exploited.
Labour isn't getting any of that back without stronger, more transformative policies and giving people a genuine alternative. They made the same unprincipled mistake as the LibDems but on a much bigger scale.
The Labour party going back to courting the establishment isn't going to change that except in a few newspapers. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:03 - Jul 11 with 1481 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 13:49 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
New Labour was a one-time only deal that capitalised on historic Labour support while courting the centre and centre-right.
It left a void that the SNP walked into and unfortunately in England disillusionment and disenfranchisement that the xenophobes exploited.
Labour isn't getting any of that back without stronger, more transformative policies and giving people a genuine alternative. They made the same unprincipled mistake as the LibDems but on a much bigger scale.
The Labour party going back to courting the establishment isn't going to change that except in a few newspapers. |
We’ve been through this before but New Labour did not lose Scotland. Labour received 39% of the Scottish vote in the last election before Blair (1992). In the last election of the New Labour era in 2010 they won 42%. That vote share was haemorrhaged to 27.1% by 2017 and then 18.6% in 2019
I know you’re desperate to pretend it was New Labour that lost Scotland but repeating it over and over again doesn’t make it true [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 14:04]
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:13 - Jul 11 with 1461 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Bit of a suicide note for the LIbs surely?
The party is still labouring under the millstone it saddled itself with by alligning itself with Tory austerity, tuition fees etc... just so their leader could enjoy a short lived ego trip.
To make the same mistake again, so soon, albeit by piggybacking on an apparently sensible Labour leader whilst the Tories double down on their idiocy is - erm.... idiotic. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:16 - Jul 11 with 1453 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:03 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
We’ve been through this before but New Labour did not lose Scotland. Labour received 39% of the Scottish vote in the last election before Blair (1992). In the last election of the New Labour era in 2010 they won 42%. That vote share was haemorrhaged to 27.1% by 2017 and then 18.6% in 2019
I know you’re desperate to pretend it was New Labour that lost Scotland but repeating it over and over again doesn’t make it true [Post edited 11 Jul 2020 14:04]
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You’re still denying there was a void to walk into.
Never mind. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:20 - Jul 11 with 1439 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:16 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
You’re still denying there was a void to walk into.
Never mind. |
It’s funny how that void was only walked into after New Labour were finally voted out, and not the 13 years they were in power, isn’t it? | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:04 - Jul 11 with 1307 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 14:20 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It’s funny how that void was only walked into after New Labour were finally voted out, and not the 13 years they were in power, isn’t it? |
It just occurred to me you know nothing about Scotland and the various Scottish elections.
Apologies. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:46 - Jul 11 with 1265 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:04 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
It just occurred to me you know nothing about Scotland and the various Scottish elections.
Apologies. |
Haha...‘I don’t have any way of backing up my point so I’m just going to resort to pithy put downs’. Standard Darth
Abuse to follow I expect | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:50 - Jul 11 with 1263 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:46 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Haha...‘I don’t have any way of backing up my point so I’m just going to resort to pithy put downs’. Standard Darth
Abuse to follow I expect |
No.
Have a gander at the Scottish parliament elections. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:58 - Jul 11 with 1244 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:50 - Jul 11 by Darth_Koont |
No.
Have a gander at the Scottish parliament elections. |
Thank you for at least making a point this time but again it looks wide of the mark
Labour unsurprisingly did very well in 1999 when New Labour was fully in its pomp but even with a drop from there the vote share remained fairly strong. It was only in the first elections after New Labour were voted out that the SNP gained a majority government for the first time, and then Labour’s vote share collapsed by the next election
6/10 for effort though | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 00:03 - Jul 12 with 1233 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 23:58 - Jul 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Thank you for at least making a point this time but again it looks wide of the mark
Labour unsurprisingly did very well in 1999 when New Labour was fully in its pomp but even with a drop from there the vote share remained fairly strong. It was only in the first elections after New Labour were voted out that the SNP gained a majority government for the first time, and then Labour’s vote share collapsed by the next election
6/10 for effort though |
That was just noise.
Address the fact that Labour support was eroding. | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 00:14 - Jul 12 with 1218 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 00:03 - Jul 12 by Darth_Koont |
That was just noise.
Address the fact that Labour support was eroding. |
It wasn’t really though, was it?
I mean I have actually addressed that twice via 2 different type of elections, but to expand on the point further the support for Labour in general elections took a massive jump in 1997 when New Labour was fresh and in its pomp. That naturally reverted a bit over time but was still higher in 2010 than the election that preceded its onset. The parliament elections don’t offer a ‘before’ point but it stands to reason that the 1999 election carried a similar wave. Yes that support receded a bit but was still strong in the last election of the New Labour era. It was only after that it dropped significantly and the SNP were able to seize a majority
Now do you actually have a counter point or are we back at pithy responses? | |
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| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 00:15 - Jul 12 with 1216 views | Darth_Koont |
| Ed Davey offers to work with Labour if elected Lib Dem leader on 00:14 - Jul 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It wasn’t really though, was it?
I mean I have actually addressed that twice via 2 different type of elections, but to expand on the point further the support for Labour in general elections took a massive jump in 1997 when New Labour was fresh and in its pomp. That naturally reverted a bit over time but was still higher in 2010 than the election that preceded its onset. The parliament elections don’t offer a ‘before’ point but it stands to reason that the 1999 election carried a similar wave. Yes that support receded a bit but was still strong in the last election of the New Labour era. It was only after that it dropped significantly and the SNP were able to seize a majority
Now do you actually have a counter point or are we back at pithy responses? |
More words. Less point. | |
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