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Falling birth rate in interesting 09:13 - Jul 15 with 3321 viewsKeno

especially when coupled with the research recently showing a fall, albeit slight, in longevity

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53409521


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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:19 - Jul 15 with 3295 viewsSteve_M

Yes, and the broad underlying trend - that healthcare and education in many lower income countries has improved so that infant mortality is reduced and women have the choice of using contraception is a good one.

Declining populations, especially in Japan, might be more of an issue especially where populations remain wary of immigration - someone needs to fund welfare states for a population that has a bulge at the top end age-wise.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:23 - Jul 15 with 3272 viewsPrideOfTheEast

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:19 - Jul 15 by Steve_M

Yes, and the broad underlying trend - that healthcare and education in many lower income countries has improved so that infant mortality is reduced and women have the choice of using contraception is a good one.

Declining populations, especially in Japan, might be more of an issue especially where populations remain wary of immigration - someone needs to fund welfare states for a population that has a bulge at the top end age-wise.


There will presumably be mass-demand for immigration in several decades time.
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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:24 - Jul 15 with 3273 viewsKeno

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:19 - Jul 15 by Steve_M

Yes, and the broad underlying trend - that healthcare and education in many lower income countries has improved so that infant mortality is reduced and women have the choice of using contraception is a good one.

Declining populations, especially in Japan, might be more of an issue especially where populations remain wary of immigration - someone needs to fund welfare states for a population that has a bulge at the top end age-wise.


the immigration issue and how it can support an ageing economy is one that often gets overlooked in all the farage, sorry I mean barrage of noise about 'people coming here taking our jobs'

a lot of western European countries, the UK included, would have struggled since WW2 without the influx of various people at various times

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:38 - Jul 15 with 3228 viewsfooters

It's only because I've been in lockdown. Now it's easing up, expect a swift reversal.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:40 - Jul 15 with 3217 viewsKeno

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:38 - Jul 15 by footers

It's only because I've been in lockdown. Now it's easing up, expect a swift reversal.


"Now it's easing up, expect a swift reversal"

I believe you can get treatment for that sort of thing

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:52 - Jul 15 with 3187 viewsKropotkin123

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:19 - Jul 15 by Steve_M

Yes, and the broad underlying trend - that healthcare and education in many lower income countries has improved so that infant mortality is reduced and women have the choice of using contraception is a good one.

Declining populations, especially in Japan, might be more of an issue especially where populations remain wary of immigration - someone needs to fund welfare states for a population that has a bulge at the top end age-wise.


The declining populations is what the article is focusing on.

Frankly, it is an economic issue for the majority of people in their 20s-40s. My partner and I would like to have 2-4 children. Realistically, we'll probably have 2 and that will be a struggle. My boss, of a similar age, is in the same situation.

- Wages have been bad for over a decade
- Job security has been bad for over a decade
- The rental market is horrendous for people trying to save for a home
- When you do get a home nowadays (which happens latter in people's lives) the mortgage is higher.
- Even if you can save the deposit, getting a mortgage is often impossible for people because of the x4.5 ruling most lenders follow.
- Cost of raising a child has massively increased, so you put it off longer.

People can argue against this all they want, but it doesn't change the reality, or more importantly, the perception of this age group. This is evident in the fertility rates, which can't just be passed off as healthcare and education.

It is the same in other nations. In Korea, people in my age group called it a glass ceiling.

Thinking back to when I returned to this country. An estate agent proudly boasted that the landlord owned over 250 properties and could, therefore, get different furniture for me if I preferred. Nobody should be able to own 250 residential properties, it is simply killing futures.

* The rant isn't at you, your statement just provided a nice springboard to express my thoughts.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 9:53]

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:59 - Jul 15 with 3162 viewsKeno

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:52 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123

The declining populations is what the article is focusing on.

Frankly, it is an economic issue for the majority of people in their 20s-40s. My partner and I would like to have 2-4 children. Realistically, we'll probably have 2 and that will be a struggle. My boss, of a similar age, is in the same situation.

- Wages have been bad for over a decade
- Job security has been bad for over a decade
- The rental market is horrendous for people trying to save for a home
- When you do get a home nowadays (which happens latter in people's lives) the mortgage is higher.
- Even if you can save the deposit, getting a mortgage is often impossible for people because of the x4.5 ruling most lenders follow.
- Cost of raising a child has massively increased, so you put it off longer.

People can argue against this all they want, but it doesn't change the reality, or more importantly, the perception of this age group. This is evident in the fertility rates, which can't just be passed off as healthcare and education.

It is the same in other nations. In Korea, people in my age group called it a glass ceiling.

Thinking back to when I returned to this country. An estate agent proudly boasted that the landlord owned over 250 properties and could, therefore, get different furniture for me if I preferred. Nobody should be able to own 250 residential properties, it is simply killing futures.

* The rant isn't at you, your statement just provided a nice springboard to express my thoughts.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 9:53]


that a really interesting take on this, with other factors that may be partly economic and partly social choice coming into play such as more women working rather being 'mums'

and before anyone starts up I'm not having a pop I am stating a factor in the birthrate issue

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:12 - Jul 15 with 3148 viewsDanTheMan

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:52 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123

The declining populations is what the article is focusing on.

Frankly, it is an economic issue for the majority of people in their 20s-40s. My partner and I would like to have 2-4 children. Realistically, we'll probably have 2 and that will be a struggle. My boss, of a similar age, is in the same situation.

- Wages have been bad for over a decade
- Job security has been bad for over a decade
- The rental market is horrendous for people trying to save for a home
- When you do get a home nowadays (which happens latter in people's lives) the mortgage is higher.
- Even if you can save the deposit, getting a mortgage is often impossible for people because of the x4.5 ruling most lenders follow.
- Cost of raising a child has massively increased, so you put it off longer.

People can argue against this all they want, but it doesn't change the reality, or more importantly, the perception of this age group. This is evident in the fertility rates, which can't just be passed off as healthcare and education.

It is the same in other nations. In Korea, people in my age group called it a glass ceiling.

Thinking back to when I returned to this country. An estate agent proudly boasted that the landlord owned over 250 properties and could, therefore, get different furniture for me if I preferred. Nobody should be able to own 250 residential properties, it is simply killing futures.

* The rant isn't at you, your statement just provided a nice springboard to express my thoughts.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 9:53]


Couldn't have put it better myself.

I'm 30 now, my partner is 25. Realistically if we're gonna have kids, it'll be in the next few years. I don't feel ready, she especially does not. Even then we're talking about having maybe one.

I'm already in a fortunate position in that I have a home and I am in a relatively comfortable position. I could afford to have a child, but it would still be a stretch as my partner does not have a well paying job and is now looking to start her career having finished her OU degree.

I'm told I need to save a lot of money each month in case of the worst, and I need to save more into my pension otherwise I'll be screwed. I'd also, fairly selfishly, would like a little money to actually spend on myself.

I just can't see how in the next 5 years we'll be ready to have one child, let alone two. I see parents with a lot less than me get by though so maybe I'm being an idiot.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:21 - Jul 15 with 3129 viewsfactual_blue

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:40 - Jul 15 by Keno

"Now it's easing up, expect a swift reversal"

I believe you can get treatment for that sort of thing


I would imagine asking for a 'swift reversal' on a first date is likely to lead to a slap round the face.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:27 - Jul 15 with 3119 viewsITFC_Forever

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:52 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123

The declining populations is what the article is focusing on.

Frankly, it is an economic issue for the majority of people in their 20s-40s. My partner and I would like to have 2-4 children. Realistically, we'll probably have 2 and that will be a struggle. My boss, of a similar age, is in the same situation.

- Wages have been bad for over a decade
- Job security has been bad for over a decade
- The rental market is horrendous for people trying to save for a home
- When you do get a home nowadays (which happens latter in people's lives) the mortgage is higher.
- Even if you can save the deposit, getting a mortgage is often impossible for people because of the x4.5 ruling most lenders follow.
- Cost of raising a child has massively increased, so you put it off longer.

People can argue against this all they want, but it doesn't change the reality, or more importantly, the perception of this age group. This is evident in the fertility rates, which can't just be passed off as healthcare and education.

It is the same in other nations. In Korea, people in my age group called it a glass ceiling.

Thinking back to when I returned to this country. An estate agent proudly boasted that the landlord owned over 250 properties and could, therefore, get different furniture for me if I preferred. Nobody should be able to own 250 residential properties, it is simply killing futures.

* The rant isn't at you, your statement just provided a nice springboard to express my thoughts.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 9:53]


Makes me glad I was born when I was - I was 24 in 1999 when I bought my first house, a small three-bedroom semi for £62,500, and it took me a year or so to save the 5% deposit.

That got me on the ladder.

If I was 24 now and looking to buy the same house, the cost of the house and the deposit would be so astronomically high, I wouldn't be able to afford it or get remotely close - I wouldn't even try.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:43 - Jul 15 with 3090 viewsKropotkin123

Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:27 - Jul 15 by ITFC_Forever

Makes me glad I was born when I was - I was 24 in 1999 when I bought my first house, a small three-bedroom semi for £62,500, and it took me a year or so to save the 5% deposit.

That got me on the ladder.

If I was 24 now and looking to buy the same house, the cost of the house and the deposit would be so astronomically high, I wouldn't be able to afford it or get remotely close - I wouldn't even try.


Thank you.

Thank you for openly recognising this and offering up a real-world example of the differences we face.

Too many people in your situation don't get it and simply try and pass it off as not being an issue, something a little graft would solve.

I appreciate it.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:03 - Jul 15 with 3063 viewshomer_123

Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:21 - Jul 15 by factual_blue

I would imagine asking for a 'swift reversal' on a first date is likely to lead to a slap round the face.


Depends on how much you are paying.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:08 - Jul 15 with 3053 viewsjeera

Falling birth rate in interesting on 10:43 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123

Thank you.

Thank you for openly recognising this and offering up a real-world example of the differences we face.

Too many people in your situation don't get it and simply try and pass it off as not being an issue, something a little graft would solve.

I appreciate it.


I fully understand and am in your position only 20 years older.

I had to sell my house through poor health, had to fight tooth and nail to get any kind of support and will never be able to start again in this country.

So I figured to be realistic and face up to the fact that if I ever wanted my own house again it would need to be in maybe France, Spain or Bulgaria. Fully accepted that.

Then we voted to leave the EU.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 11:46]

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:13 - Jul 15 with 3054 viewsSteve_M

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:52 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123

The declining populations is what the article is focusing on.

Frankly, it is an economic issue for the majority of people in their 20s-40s. My partner and I would like to have 2-4 children. Realistically, we'll probably have 2 and that will be a struggle. My boss, of a similar age, is in the same situation.

- Wages have been bad for over a decade
- Job security has been bad for over a decade
- The rental market is horrendous for people trying to save for a home
- When you do get a home nowadays (which happens latter in people's lives) the mortgage is higher.
- Even if you can save the deposit, getting a mortgage is often impossible for people because of the x4.5 ruling most lenders follow.
- Cost of raising a child has massively increased, so you put it off longer.

People can argue against this all they want, but it doesn't change the reality, or more importantly, the perception of this age group. This is evident in the fertility rates, which can't just be passed off as healthcare and education.

It is the same in other nations. In Korea, people in my age group called it a glass ceiling.

Thinking back to when I returned to this country. An estate agent proudly boasted that the landlord owned over 250 properties and could, therefore, get different furniture for me if I preferred. Nobody should be able to own 250 residential properties, it is simply killing futures.

* The rant isn't at you, your statement just provided a nice springboard to express my thoughts.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 9:53]


I didn't take that as aimed as me, even without your caveat.

It's true and I'm very glad that I'm not a decade younger and was able to get into a reasonably paid job by my mid 20s and have worked up to a something fairly well paid over the years since (i'm early 40s now). Despite that, living in London, I still suffer from the housing situation, which is acute in London where the intrinsic value of a property is so far below the market value.

Your landlord example is rent-seeking in both the literal and economic sense. It's why Help to Buy has been such a con, especially given the knock on effect on the stock of social housing held by councils. The Jenrick (non-) scandal seems to have blown over despite it being exemplary into how incentives for government and developers are misaligned with the general interests of the population.

Brexit and covid have just unleashed a great wave of cronyism in the UK, that on top of the existing government habit of channelling money to management consultants for just about anything.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:42 - Jul 15 with 3015 viewsKropotkin123

Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:08 - Jul 15 by jeera

I fully understand and am in your position only 20 years older.

I had to sell my house through poor health, had to fight tooth and nail to get any kind of support and will never be able to start again in this country.

So I figured to be realistic and face up to the fact that if I ever wanted my own house again it would need to be in maybe France, Spain or Bulgaria. Fully accepted that.

Then we voted to leave the EU.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 11:46]


It's sad that this is the reality and in my age generalisations I obviously miss situations like yours.

For me, I'm saving to live outside of the country too. Canada in my case. I've lived abroad for 2+ years before and in less than 5 years I'll be gone for good.

To be completely transparent, my family unit (grandparents, parents, and siblings) have all permanently left the UK. So it is not as if I'd even be leaving anyone behind at this point.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:45 - Jul 15 with 2999 viewsNthQldITFC

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:23 - Jul 15 by PrideOfTheEast

There will presumably be mass-demand for immigration in several decades time.


Only if we persist with / can still operate an expansionist system.

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:51 - Jul 15 with 2986 viewsjeera

Falling birth rate in interesting on 11:42 - Jul 15 by Kropotkin123

It's sad that this is the reality and in my age generalisations I obviously miss situations like yours.

For me, I'm saving to live outside of the country too. Canada in my case. I've lived abroad for 2+ years before and in less than 5 years I'll be gone for good.

To be completely transparent, my family unit (grandparents, parents, and siblings) have all permanently left the UK. So it is not as if I'd even be leaving anyone behind at this point.


A lot of people found themselves in difficulty following the 2008 financial crisis and never had the chance to recover.

The low interest rate that was introduced to help came ridiculously too late for many thousands so adding them to your scenario, meaning more competition for the rental market and another false property hike. Troubling for many like you say, whilst some people have cleaned up by preying on the situation.

There could be answers, but no conservatively minded government would implement them.
[Post edited 15 Jul 2020 12:01]

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 16:43 - Jul 15 with 2892 viewsflimflam

Falling birth rate in interesting on 09:24 - Jul 15 by Keno

the immigration issue and how it can support an ageing economy is one that often gets overlooked in all the farage, sorry I mean barrage of noise about 'people coming here taking our jobs'

a lot of western European countries, the UK included, would have struggled since WW2 without the influx of various people at various times


So I am guessing this influx of people since WW2 do not grow old?

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Falling birth rate in interesting on 16:57 - Jul 15 with 2879 viewsKeno

Falling birth rate in interesting on 16:43 - Jul 15 by flimflam

So I am guessing this influx of people since WW2 do not grow old?


Yes and so the solution becomes the problem

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