| Thanks a lot Waghorn 11:35 - Jul 29 with 5721 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
Now I actually miss Mick.
Cheers!
I appreciated the miracles Mick worked, I knew he wouldn't throw Evans under the bus and I knew that he was working on a shoestring but for me the animosity at the end and the boring style of play was too much. It was right to let him go.
It was everything that followed after that was the problem. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 11:39]
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:09 - Jul 29 with 4773 views | Darth_Koont |
Yes and no.
The Waghorn interview really gets me annoyed not only about what followed Mick leaving but also how criminally undervalued McCarthy was by a lot of fans and how awfully he was treated at the end by a vocal minority.
Even with the playing budget being squeezed over his last couple of seasons, Mick continued to make us competitive for the division and most crucially to keep increasing the value of the squad through good signings and bringing through the kids. That was such an important platform for us and the squad potential was way above our spending.
Obviously the football was dull at times but so was what went on before and after and with even worse results. But if we could have been a bit more objective and proud of what we were achieving then perhaps it would have been a lot more enjoyable to be a fan. But I think ultimately Mick and the team were paying the price for doing enough to shield Evans from criticism and 16 or so years in the Championship.
What makes it worse is that the platform and squad value has been utterly p!ssed away since then and fans are starting to see the bigger picture much more clearly as a result. But in the words of Carole King:
And it's too late, baby now, it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Somethin' inside has died, and I can't hide
And I just can't fake it, oh, no, no |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:50 - Jul 29 with 4680 views | BLUEBEAT |
MM was good for the main reason Waghorn stated, getting good players in. If only more were real signings rather than loans. The Waghorn/Garner signings were exciting and brought a missed energy back into the squad. So sad that they were only here for a single season.
This bit made me laugh....
“We played at Brentford away and he was meant to come back on the coach and all the fans were waiting for him to have a go at him and give him a bit of a stick but he’s pulled off in this car on the other side of the stadium.“
That hardly ties in with his tough take-no-sh!t Yorkshireman legend  |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:57 - Jul 29 with 4651 views | Darth_Koont |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:50 - Jul 29 by BLUEBEAT |
MM was good for the main reason Waghorn stated, getting good players in. If only more were real signings rather than loans. The Waghorn/Garner signings were exciting and brought a missed energy back into the squad. So sad that they were only here for a single season.
This bit made me laugh....
“We played at Brentford away and he was meant to come back on the coach and all the fans were waiting for him to have a go at him and give him a bit of a stick but he’s pulled off in this car on the other side of the stadium.“
That hardly ties in with his tough take-no-sh!t Yorkshireman legend |
Never mind relegation to the third tier, the Brentford abuse was the low point in our modern history.
He probably took himself away to avoid tw@tting someone. | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:02 - Jul 29 with 4617 views | PJH |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:57 - Jul 29 by Darth_Koont |
Never mind relegation to the third tier, the Brentford abuse was the low point in our modern history.
He probably took himself away to avoid tw@tting someone. |
Yes he could have gone to the coach to get abused and probably spat at and maybe have things thrown at him by drunken idiots or he could have left by a different method. |  | | |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:03 - Jul 29 with 4615 views | Fixed_It |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:57 - Jul 29 by Darth_Koont |
Never mind relegation to the third tier, the Brentford abuse was the low point in our modern history.
He probably took himself away to avoid tw@tting someone. |
Agreed. All good things come to an end and it was probably time for Mick to go - but the abuse he received was totally OTT and anyone responsible should be thoroughly ashamed. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:07 - Jul 29 with 4600 views | PJH |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:03 - Jul 29 by Fixed_It |
Agreed. All good things come to an end and it was probably time for Mick to go - but the abuse he received was totally OTT and anyone responsible should be thoroughly ashamed. |
The interesting thing is that over the time since that day at Brentford a few people have offered support to the abusers and/or defended them but I do not think that I have actually seen anyone post that THEY were one of those hurling the abuse.
Now it is possible that nobody on here was one of the several behaving as they did that day but...... | | | |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:55 - Jul 29 with 4451 views | Illinoisblue |
Was the Waghorn fee really 5million? Seems an insane fee, even for Derby. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:02 - Jul 29 with 4426 views | BloomBlue |
I guess it does finally prove what a lot of people knew that if MM had stayed Waghorn would have stayed |  | | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:03 - Jul 29 with 4426 views | bluefunk |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:55 - Jul 29 by Illinoisblue |
Was the Waghorn fee really 5million? Seems an insane fee, even for Derby. |
they havent paid us yet, we get the money from the profit they got on selling the ground to themselves |  | | |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:15 - Jul 29 with 4378 views | Radlett_blue |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:50 - Jul 29 by BLUEBEAT |
MM was good for the main reason Waghorn stated, getting good players in. If only more were real signings rather than loans. The Waghorn/Garner signings were exciting and brought a missed energy back into the squad. So sad that they were only here for a single season.
This bit made me laugh....
“We played at Brentford away and he was meant to come back on the coach and all the fans were waiting for him to have a go at him and give him a bit of a stick but he’s pulled off in this car on the other side of the stadium.“
That hardly ties in with his tough take-no-sh!t Yorkshireman legend |
So he was meant to return on the coach & leave his car in Brentford's car park? |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:21 - Jul 29 with 4357 views | patrickswell |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:15 - Jul 29 by Radlett_blue |
So he was meant to return on the coach & leave his car in Brentford's car park? |
I live just outside Bromley, and was supposed to drop him down while taking a trip to Hounslow on the Sunday, but he texted me not to bother. |  | | |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:36 - Jul 29 with 4309 views | farkenhell |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 13:07 - Jul 29 by PJH |
The interesting thing is that over the time since that day at Brentford a few people have offered support to the abusers and/or defended them but I do not think that I have actually seen anyone post that THEY were one of those hurling the abuse.
Now it is possible that nobody on here was one of the several behaving as they did that day but...... |
...substitute "shameful" for "interesting" | | | |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:09 - Jul 29 with 4240 views | Garv |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:57 - Jul 29 by Darth_Koont |
Never mind relegation to the third tier, the Brentford abuse was the low point in our modern history.
He probably took himself away to avoid tw@tting someone. |
Do you not think you're overdoing it a tad?
I'm not condoning the abuse (I don't really need to say that), but it was a small proportion of our crowd there that day - I was also there - and they were chavy idiots. They didn't and don't represent our fanbase as a whole.
Do you see it as such a low point because of the kind of abuse it was or who it was aimed at? Mick undoubted deserved more respect than that, but then so do most people. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:20 - Jul 29 with 4201 views | Coco |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:09 - Jul 29 by Garv |
Do you not think you're overdoing it a tad?
I'm not condoning the abuse (I don't really need to say that), but it was a small proportion of our crowd there that day - I was also there - and they were chavy idiots. They didn't and don't represent our fanbase as a whole.
Do you see it as such a low point because of the kind of abuse it was or who it was aimed at? Mick undoubted deserved more respect than that, but then so do most people. |
Waghorn started the interview saying how harmless and passive the fans are at Town so i'm not sure Mich was really 'hounded out'. He got some stick yes, some undeserved and some justified - he wasn't very good at receiving criticism but i am absolutely positive he got far worse at Sunderland and Wolves. Let's not rewrite history, Mick is a great man and did well up to a point but we as 'punters' were justified in wanting more. A lot of this is on Evans of course but there was never a long term plan to build just a plan to survive year on year - to maintain the status quo. Both owner and manager were happy to tick along. The choices after Mick leaving are what have destroyed us, that doesn't mean Mick going was a mistake. Mick was soooooo close to cracking it but bottled it after the heavy defeat at Reading when he reverted back to his trusted turgid formula. It's a shame, i liked Mick the man but his style of play was not for me and the does not mean relegation and despair was the only other option.
Also, that interview highlights some of squad mentality. No real connection to the club and no real hunger to succeed. Annoyed me a little tbh. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 15:22]
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:27 - Jul 29 with 4172 views | Illinoisblue |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 14:03 - Jul 29 by bluefunk |
they havent paid us yet, we get the money from the profit they got on selling the ground to themselves |
So technically they owe us Rooney and a Lazio friendly | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:31 - Jul 29 with 4166 views | itfcjoe |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:09 - Jul 29 by Darth_Koont |
Yes and no.
The Waghorn interview really gets me annoyed not only about what followed Mick leaving but also how criminally undervalued McCarthy was by a lot of fans and how awfully he was treated at the end by a vocal minority.
Even with the playing budget being squeezed over his last couple of seasons, Mick continued to make us competitive for the division and most crucially to keep increasing the value of the squad through good signings and bringing through the kids. That was such an important platform for us and the squad potential was way above our spending.
Obviously the football was dull at times but so was what went on before and after and with even worse results. But if we could have been a bit more objective and proud of what we were achieving then perhaps it would have been a lot more enjoyable to be a fan. But I think ultimately Mick and the team were paying the price for doing enough to shield Evans from criticism and 16 or so years in the Championship.
What makes it worse is that the platform and squad value has been utterly p!ssed away since then and fans are starting to see the bigger picture much more clearly as a result. But in the words of Carole King:
And it's too late, baby now, it's too late
Though we really did try to make it
Somethin' inside has died, and I can't hide
And I just can't fake it, oh, no, no |
It's a massive failure from Evans to have not supported Mick enough - not really in financial terms - but to explain to the fanbase how good a job Mick was doing under the circumstances that he was putting him in.
And also to manage Mick to ensure that he didn't keep biting back and stepping out of line - Evans managing expectations and reigning Mick in to an extent could have been very beneficial rather than getting to untenable.
Ironic that even after Mick left, it was his business continuing to bring money in last summer after relegation with the sell on fees from players he'd spotted like Mings and Webster. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:43 - Jul 29 with 4125 views | BlueBadger |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:50 - Jul 29 by BLUEBEAT |
MM was good for the main reason Waghorn stated, getting good players in. If only more were real signings rather than loans. The Waghorn/Garner signings were exciting and brought a missed energy back into the squad. So sad that they were only here for a single season.
This bit made me laugh....
“We played at Brentford away and he was meant to come back on the coach and all the fans were waiting for him to have a go at him and give him a bit of a stick but he’s pulled off in this car on the other side of the stadium.“
That hardly ties in with his tough take-no-sh!t Yorkshireman legend |
I think we could all live without a bunch virgins bellowing 'you touch kids' at us, regardless of how hard we are, in all fairness. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:54 - Jul 29 with 4092 views | Darth_Koont |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:09 - Jul 29 by Garv |
Do you not think you're overdoing it a tad?
I'm not condoning the abuse (I don't really need to say that), but it was a small proportion of our crowd there that day - I was also there - and they were chavy idiots. They didn't and don't represent our fanbase as a whole.
Do you see it as such a low point because of the kind of abuse it was or who it was aimed at? Mick undoubted deserved more respect than that, but then so do most people. |
I also thought singing against the team at Carrow Road and jeering youngsters at Portman Road was also bad. I accept that it was a small minority at Brentford but that's what had been enabled by that stage. | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 16:08 - Jul 29 with 4040 views | BLUEBEAT |
Also....
“....he’s pulled off in this car on the other side of the stadium.”
If you did this in the street you’d get arrested. | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 16:15 - Jul 29 with 4010 views | jeera |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 12:50 - Jul 29 by BLUEBEAT |
MM was good for the main reason Waghorn stated, getting good players in. If only more were real signings rather than loans. The Waghorn/Garner signings were exciting and brought a missed energy back into the squad. So sad that they were only here for a single season.
This bit made me laugh....
“We played at Brentford away and he was meant to come back on the coach and all the fans were waiting for him to have a go at him and give him a bit of a stick but he’s pulled off in this car on the other side of the stadium.“
That hardly ties in with his tough take-no-sh!t Yorkshireman legend |
I don't understand this either.
Why would an old boy feel the need to face abuse from a load of younger men/kids/whatever they were?
Not exactly brave on their part you should mean, surely. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 17:12 - Jul 29 with 3887 views | patrickswell |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 15:20 - Jul 29 by Coco |
Waghorn started the interview saying how harmless and passive the fans are at Town so i'm not sure Mich was really 'hounded out'. He got some stick yes, some undeserved and some justified - he wasn't very good at receiving criticism but i am absolutely positive he got far worse at Sunderland and Wolves. Let's not rewrite history, Mick is a great man and did well up to a point but we as 'punters' were justified in wanting more. A lot of this is on Evans of course but there was never a long term plan to build just a plan to survive year on year - to maintain the status quo. Both owner and manager were happy to tick along. The choices after Mick leaving are what have destroyed us, that doesn't mean Mick going was a mistake. Mick was soooooo close to cracking it but bottled it after the heavy defeat at Reading when he reverted back to his trusted turgid formula. It's a shame, i liked Mick the man but his style of play was not for me and the does not mean relegation and despair was the only other option.
Also, that interview highlights some of squad mentality. No real connection to the club and no real hunger to succeed. Annoyed me a little tbh. [Post edited 29 Jul 2020 15:22]
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I know what you mean in terms of the "Hi Martyn, it's Frank Lampard here" "I'm out of here, where do I sign" stuff. 99.9% of me completely understands his motivations and it's further evidence that whatever Hurst considered his remit to be, inspiring players clearly wasn't part of it.
But there's 0.01% of me that's peed off at the whole "Thanks for the opportunity, I'm off now. Good luck with these lads from Accrington and Bristol Rovers...you'll need it" vibe towards the end.
1 year of Waggy and 3 years of Jackson. Those are screwed up numbers.... | | | |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 17:41 - Jul 29 with 3824 views | hype313 |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 17:12 - Jul 29 by patrickswell |
I know what you mean in terms of the "Hi Martyn, it's Frank Lampard here" "I'm out of here, where do I sign" stuff. 99.9% of me completely understands his motivations and it's further evidence that whatever Hurst considered his remit to be, inspiring players clearly wasn't part of it.
But there's 0.01% of me that's peed off at the whole "Thanks for the opportunity, I'm off now. Good luck with these lads from Accrington and Bristol Rovers...you'll need it" vibe towards the end.
1 year of Waggy and 3 years of Jackson. Those are screwed up numbers.... |
I think his motivations were more along the line of a 20k uplift in his weekly wage.
He also witnessed the ship sinking and jumped, can't say I blame him, going from Mick to some unknown bloke from Shrewsbury. |  |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 20:29 - Jul 29 with 3692 views | Garv |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 17:41 - Jul 29 by hype313 |
I think his motivations were more along the line of a 20k uplift in his weekly wage.
He also witnessed the ship sinking and jumped, can't say I blame him, going from Mick to some unknown bloke from Shrewsbury. |
That in itself is a bad attitude.
It's still frustrating that the players never bought into what Hurst was trying to do. Yes, he wasn't the most inspiring bloke, but that he was an unknown from Shrewsbury wasn't an excuse. | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 20:49 - Jul 29 with 3658 views | itfcjoe |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 20:29 - Jul 29 by Garv |
That in itself is a bad attitude.
It's still frustrating that the players never bought into what Hurst was trying to do. Yes, he wasn't the most inspiring bloke, but that he was an unknown from Shrewsbury wasn't an excuse. |
Hurst was just as happy for them to go, it allowed him to shape the squad in his image quicker - that big sale opened the door to complete the deals for Nsiala, Nolan and Jackson | |
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| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 22:02 - Jul 29 with 3554 views | Darth_Koont |
| Thanks a lot Waghorn on 20:29 - Jul 29 by Garv |
That in itself is a bad attitude.
It's still frustrating that the players never bought into what Hurst was trying to do. Yes, he wasn't the most inspiring bloke, but that he was an unknown from Shrewsbury wasn't an excuse. |
Hurst had more leeway in that window than anyone apart from perhaps Jewell or Keane 10 years ago.
But we ended up bringing in players who were overvalued, sidelining our own kids and creating a bloated squad.
It feels like he pretty much demolished the position he inherited to make a point and set his stamp on the club. | |
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