| Best team, where does Jackson fit? 10:16 - Jul 30 with 9129 views | Bluefish |
Holy
KVY Chambers Woolf Nydam/Kenlock
Dozzell/Skuse
Downes Huws
Lankester Bishop/El Miz Dobra
Norwood
Considering he was a big cost and still has a resale value he needs to be definite 1st xi
Subs
Sears
Nolan
Dozzell/Skuse
Bishop/El Mizouni
Nydam/Kenlock
Wright/Przybek
Drinan/Morris/Folami/Simpson
Pointless
Nsiala
Edwards
Donacien
Wilson
Judge
[Post edited 30 Jul 2020 10:17]
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:31 - Jul 30 with 2281 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:19 - Jul 30 by clive_baker |
I think that's right as they've had that Clarke on the wing who looked very dangerous for them last season on the occasions I saw him. |
I stand corrected, had a look and it seems they mostly played 4-4-2 though did sometimes vary it with Jackson on the right and Wilks on the left of Kee. So he's played there a bit before and for me he looks to have the attributes to be very effective as a wide forward.
Edit - makes his signing by Hurst all the more baffling though as I don't see where he plays in Hurst's favoured 4-1-4-1 formation. [Post edited 30 Jul 2020 12:33]
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:35 - Jul 30 with 2273 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:19 - Jul 30 by clive_baker |
I think that's right as they've had that Clarke on the wing who looked very dangerous for them last season on the occasions I saw him. |
Yeah Jordan Clark if we are talking about the same guy, he did catch the eye didn't he. I believe he has left Accrington though and is free agent, looking for a 'bigger' move I think. |  |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:35 - Jul 30 with 2274 views | tractordownsouth |
Holy
KVY
Chambers
Woolfenden
New LB
Skuse/ Dozzell
Downes/ New CM
Huws
Jackson
Norwood
Sears
Squad wise, we’re not too far off the top 6 - if we get in a half decent CB, LB and ST we’ll be fine but it’s the management that’s the problem. |  |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:38 - Jul 30 with 2268 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:17 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
Disagree. Jackson has all the attributes to play as a wide forward and in that system you need at least one wide forward rather than a traditional winger otherwise the striker gets isolated. Sears has also played well plenty of times as a wide forward, he struggled more when asked to play wide in a 4-4-2 but when we've played 3 up top he's been very effective as a wide forward. |
I thought you might disagree somehow haha!
What and when have you seen Jackson as a wide forward? and when have you ever seen him productive as wide for forward?
Will he know the role? Will he know the defence duties? will he know about partnerships with his full -backs?
Screams to me that you are trying to shoehorn him in because he's quick. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:41 - Jul 30 with 2257 views | itfcjoe |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:38 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
I thought you might disagree somehow haha!
What and when have you seen Jackson as a wide forward? and when have you ever seen him productive as wide for forward?
Will he know the role? Will he know the defence duties? will he know about partnerships with his full -backs?
Screams to me that you are trying to shoehorn him in because he's quick. |
he spends lots of the game running the flanks, generally from in to iot though - but a number of his assists and chances created were from getting to the byline in a wide forward role, or from deeper
Norwood goal at Southend, Downes diving header, Norwood goal v bristol Rovers at home are all examples of him contributing as effectively a wide foward |  |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:44 - Jul 30 with 2249 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:38 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
I thought you might disagree somehow haha!
What and when have you seen Jackson as a wide forward? and when have you ever seen him productive as wide for forward?
Will he know the role? Will he know the defence duties? will he know about partnerships with his full -backs?
Screams to me that you are trying to shoehorn him in because he's quick. |
I've seen more than enough of him to know he has the attributes needed to play as a wide forward. Most of his best work is in the chanels rather than centrally, his workrate is very good and he tracks back well as it is. A partnership with a full back is something that can be worked on in training. The issue is we've not really tried the system, instead switching mainly from 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 instead. And let's be honest, how many partnerships have we currently got throughout the squad as a result of confused and disjointed selections and tactics? Not many, if any.
It's not about shoehorning him in because he's quick, it's looking at what he does well and thinking about how best to utilise that in a way that also suits the rest of the squad. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:53 - Jul 30 with 2237 views | Horsham |
For me with what we have i’d go assuming (very big if) everyone fit 4-4-2
Holy
KVY. Chambo Woolfie Kenlock
Bishop Skuse Downes Lankester
Jackson Norwood
Bishop would play narrow and have freedom to move inside and KVY the space to run into. Skuse sitting and covering as full backs bomb on.
Old school formation.
In the likely event we lose Bishop, I could see El Miz, Judge or Nolan coveting that role. Dobra and Edwards covering the other wide role.
I’m not against a new keeper competing for Holy’s shirt and can see the logic in a Raggett type CB to take over from Chambo.
Left back looks our weakest position with just Kenlock but I guess now or never for him. Donacian and KVY have both also played LB previously.
Cover up front looks light with only Sears with any experience and we lack physicality across our forward options. I’ve always quite liked Ollie Hawkins who has been released by Pompey. Bit of a classic hold up and back post big centre forward. Think he might be an option (best I admit to not having seen a great deal of him).
Downside is I don’t see Dozzell fitting in anywhere unless he can really get some steel into his games. |  | | |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:54 - Jul 30 with 2235 views | clive_baker |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:35 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Yeah Jordan Clark if we are talking about the same guy, he did catch the eye didn't he. I believe he has left Accrington though and is free agent, looking for a 'bigger' move I think. |
Didn't realise he had left. Would say snap him up Lambert but if he's looking for a bigger move I don't suppose we'll be of much interest nowadays. He did look a good player though, made us look very average in front of the SKY cameras. |  |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:56 - Jul 30 with 2224 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:54 - Jul 30 by clive_baker |
Didn't realise he had left. Would say snap him up Lambert but if he's looking for a bigger move I don't suppose we'll be of much interest nowadays. He did look a good player though, made us look very average in front of the SKY cameras. |
That game was very sobering. They played us off the park in that first half. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:57 - Jul 30 with 2219 views | Coco |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:41 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
he spends lots of the game running the flanks, generally from in to iot though - but a number of his assists and chances created were from getting to the byline in a wide forward role, or from deeper
Norwood goal at Southend, Downes diving header, Norwood goal v bristol Rovers at home are all examples of him contributing as effectively a wide foward |
Even the MOM performance at home to Accrington a lot of his good work came from the right hand side. |  |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:04 - Jul 30 with 2204 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:41 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
he spends lots of the game running the flanks, generally from in to iot though - but a number of his assists and chances created were from getting to the byline in a wide forward role, or from deeper
Norwood goal at Southend, Downes diving header, Norwood goal v bristol Rovers at home are all examples of him contributing as effectively a wide foward |
But that's my point, he's been doing this in a front 2. He uses the gap between the CB and LB/RB well in a front 2. But that is because he is a striker? That's his role, he knows how to perform as a striker in a partner.
Why would we then push him out wide on his own, directly up against a full-back, that's not his role, that's not his job, he doesn't play that position. we'd just be shoehorning him into a wide position. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:05 - Jul 30 with 2202 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:54 - Jul 30 by clive_baker |
Didn't realise he had left. Would say snap him up Lambert but if he's looking for a bigger move I don't suppose we'll be of much interest nowadays. He did look a good player though, made us look very average in front of the SKY cameras. |
He did, we played a back 5 that day, Nsiala and Garbutt down that left side, he constantly got in behind Garbutt and was left 1v1 Nsiala, had him like Bambi on ice. [Post edited 30 Jul 2020 13:06]
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:08 - Jul 30 with 2199 views | PhilTWTD |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 12:41 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
he spends lots of the game running the flanks, generally from in to iot though - but a number of his assists and chances created were from getting to the byline in a wide forward role, or from deeper
Norwood goal at Southend, Downes diving header, Norwood goal v bristol Rovers at home are all examples of him contributing as effectively a wide foward |
He has good composure when it comes to picking people out when in those sorts of positions, the goal at Birmingham, which I think Nolan scored, was the first time that side of his game caught my eye. Overall though I'm not sure he has enough to play at a higher level, hold-up play not good enough and too easily outmuscled.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:09 - Jul 30 with 2191 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:04 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
But that's my point, he's been doing this in a front 2. He uses the gap between the CB and LB/RB well in a front 2. But that is because he is a striker? That's his role, he knows how to perform as a striker in a partner.
Why would we then push him out wide on his own, directly up against a full-back, that's not his role, that's not his job, he doesn't play that position. we'd just be shoehorning him into a wide position. |
He wouldn't be playing up against a full back, you'd still be expecting him to exploit the chanel between the CB and the full back. The wide forward role is not the same as that of a winger in a 4-4-2. I think anyone who has seen him play regularly should be able to see that he has the attributes to be an effective wide forward. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:13 - Jul 30 with 2182 views | itfcjoe |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:08 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
He has good composure when it comes to picking people out when in those sorts of positions, the goal at Birmingham, which I think Nolan scored, was the first time that side of his game caught my eye. Overall though I'm not sure he has enough to play at a higher level, hold-up play not good enough and too easily outmuscled.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
i think if he were to really get his head down as a wide forward it would be best for his long term career and us as a club - he isn't going to go up the chain as a second striker, most bigger better clubs don't play a front 2 like that where one can offer so little back to goal.......if he can play wide in a 3 and score 15 goals and get 10 assists then he will be relatively hot property | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:14 - Jul 30 with 2180 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:08 - Jul 30 by PhilTWTD |
He has good composure when it comes to picking people out when in those sorts of positions, the goal at Birmingham, which I think Nolan scored, was the first time that side of his game caught my eye. Overall though I'm not sure he has enough to play at a higher level, hold-up play not good enough and too easily outmuscled.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Birmingham away, the infamous 2-0 is a dangerous scoreline mantra rolled out.
As a striker running the channels you are naturally higher up the pitch, looking to be on the last man, which Jackson does well as a striker.
As a wide man, you're a little deeper, more defensive duties, the opposing defensive line is more in front of you, rather than you being in behind them, you have to be able to beat your man 1v1. I'm not convinced he would a good wide man. [Post edited 30 Jul 2020 13:16]
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:18 - Jul 30 with 2166 views | PhilTWTD |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:13 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
i think if he were to really get his head down as a wide forward it would be best for his long term career and us as a club - he isn't going to go up the chain as a second striker, most bigger better clubs don't play a front 2 like that where one can offer so little back to goal.......if he can play wide in a 3 and score 15 goals and get 10 assists then he will be relatively hot property |
That is a good point about no one playing front twos the higher you go, Sears was talking about the lack of opportunities to play what's probably his natural role in the game today a while back.Think that's right, wide in a front three is probably the way to go with him long term. | | | |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:19 - Jul 30 with 2164 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:14 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Birmingham away, the infamous 2-0 is a dangerous scoreline mantra rolled out.
As a striker running the channels you are naturally higher up the pitch, looking to be on the last man, which Jackson does well as a striker.
As a wide man, you're a little deeper, more defensive duties, the opposing defensive line is more in front of you, rather than you being in behind them, you have to be able to beat your man 1v1. I'm not convinced he would a good wide man. [Post edited 30 Jul 2020 13:16]
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A wide forward is not the same as a winger in a 4-4-2. You seem to be thinking of him as the latter.
Look at players like Rashford and Greenwood at United. Different class to Jackson of course but they play the kind of role Jackson could play effectively. They aren't wingers, they are forwards who play high up the pitch and get in those chanels between the full back and centre back. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:27 - Jul 30 with 2157 views | Plums |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 11:14 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
Dobra and Lankester have a lot to prove to be ahead of him in the pecking order still, he fits in our best XI for me.
Problem is with the manager we don't know what style he wants us to play, if it is 2 up front then he definitely starts, if it is a front 3 then he starts, if it is a 4231 then more of a question.... |
Turn him into an overlapping right back, he can play every week then. |  |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:49 - Jul 30 with 2130 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:19 - Jul 30 by Herbivore |
A wide forward is not the same as a winger in a 4-4-2. You seem to be thinking of him as the latter.
Look at players like Rashford and Greenwood at United. Different class to Jackson of course but they play the kind of role Jackson could play effectively. They aren't wingers, they are forwards who play high up the pitch and get in those chanels between the full back and centre back. |
Wingers/Widemen, call them what you will, isolated up against a full back, 1v1 ability to beat your man, defensive duties on that full-back.
I haven't seen enough to suggest he could do that. He's very good at what he does, working the channels as partner of a front 2.
No need to shoehorn him into the side otherwise. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 14:00 - Jul 30 with 2119 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:49 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Wingers/Widemen, call them what you will, isolated up against a full back, 1v1 ability to beat your man, defensive duties on that full-back.
I haven't seen enough to suggest he could do that. He's very good at what he does, working the channels as partner of a front 2.
No need to shoehorn him into the side otherwise. |
You've either not read or not understood my last post so I'm not really sure where we go from here. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 14:05 - Jul 30 with 2109 views | itfcjoe |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 13:49 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Wingers/Widemen, call them what you will, isolated up against a full back, 1v1 ability to beat your man, defensive duties on that full-back.
I haven't seen enough to suggest he could do that. He's very good at what he does, working the channels as partner of a front 2.
No need to shoehorn him into the side otherwise. |
Well if we aren't going to play a front 2 then what?
I think you misunderstanding the role anyway, it doesn't shoehorn him in it just plays him from a diffeent starting position with a bit more responsibility going backwards - he isn't a right midfielder or winger, he is part of a front 3 | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 14:28 - Jul 30 with 2088 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 14:05 - Jul 30 by itfcjoe |
Well if we aren't going to play a front 2 then what?
I think you misunderstanding the role anyway, it doesn't shoehorn him in it just plays him from a diffeent starting position with a bit more responsibility going backwards - he isn't a right midfielder or winger, he is part of a front 3 |
Then he doesn't fit into Lambert's style.
I'm almost certainly not misunderstanding the role. If he were at Liverpool you'd be talking about the Salah/Mane role. That is what I am talking about anyway?
It is a different role to playing as central striker in a partnership, which is what he is good at. We are trying to make him fit in a role he has never played for us before, we tried that with Freddie, didn't go well... | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 15:22 - Jul 30 with 2059 views | itfcjoe |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 14:28 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Then he doesn't fit into Lambert's style.
I'm almost certainly not misunderstanding the role. If he were at Liverpool you'd be talking about the Salah/Mane role. That is what I am talking about anyway?
It is a different role to playing as central striker in a partnership, which is what he is good at. We are trying to make him fit in a role he has never played for us before, we tried that with Freddie, didn't go well... |
Players adapt to new roles all the time, it is hardly a big stretch to play out there for someone with his attributes.
Freddie has been fine out there, he's started week in, week out and there is a huge difference between a wide forward and playing on the flank in a 442 (which he had previously done at Col U anyway) as it is
Jack Lankester was a striker until Hurst came in, you have spoken about playing El Mizuni and Dobra on the flanks - that isn't their position, they simply have never played there for the u18s and U23s. | |
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| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 15:41 - Jul 30 with 2031 views | Herbivore |
| Best team, where does Jackson fit? on 14:28 - Jul 30 by TheTrueBlue1878 |
Then he doesn't fit into Lambert's style.
I'm almost certainly not misunderstanding the role. If he were at Liverpool you'd be talking about the Salah/Mane role. That is what I am talking about anyway?
It is a different role to playing as central striker in a partnership, which is what he is good at. We are trying to make him fit in a role he has never played for us before, we tried that with Freddie, didn't go well... |
The same Freddie you've got starting out wide in a different thread?
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