| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West 21:34 - Jul 30 with 27486 views | ElderGrizzly |
And one that will be ignored by those it is imposed on |  | | |  |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:20 - Jul 31 with 5160 views | Libero |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:16 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
You know we have had previous pandemics too? It seems the criteria of when it is tight to travel doesmt belong to global governments or scientists it belongs to a few people from Suffolk.
The numbers of crete are ridiculous in comparison to here, if anything they should not be letting me in but they are happy to test and rely on people acting reasonably. To say that it is riskier there than here amongst the chaos sounds a bit xenophobic, that is probably too strong a word but it seems the fear that foreigners are the carriers |
It's certainly not xenophobic and I think your insinuation is clumsy, inaccurate and poorly placed.
As I said in my last response to you, you do not have to justify your actions to me, I'm simply giving you my opinion because you directly asked for it. |  | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:23 - Jul 31 with 5144 views | mikeybloo88 |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:01 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
Everyone acts selfishly from time to time, maybe just own that rather than being so defensive. |
Not sure why you felt the need to downtick a perfectly reasonable question, but have one back for calling it defensive. If people are allowed to do things AND do them following ALL the prescribed measures to maximise their own and others safety, I just wondered what further criteria would be required for people like Libero and yourself to feel it is acceptable for people to travel. If the answer is complete non existence of the virus then at least we can better understand your viewpoint. |  | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:23 - Jul 31 with 5136 views | Libero |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:10 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
I think you need to consider that there are millions of jobs that are linked to holidays in all parts of the chain (parking, shops in the airport, the airlines, hotels, restaurants, activities etc) and they are pushing a view of the world which is more normalised so that people feel more comfortable to go on a holiday.
I don't feel it's particularly supported by the facts but I do understand why people are made to feel it's acceptable to go away. People working in that sector need to pay for their homes and feed their families and if Europe goes back into lockdown many of those jobs will be gone.
You are clearly correct that holidays aren't needed at this time and they shouldn't be the focus.
SB |
Oh, I'm well aware, it's just absolutely absurd. | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:25 - Jul 31 with 5123 views | Libero |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:23 - Jul 31 by mikeybloo88 |
Not sure why you felt the need to downtick a perfectly reasonable question, but have one back for calling it defensive. If people are allowed to do things AND do them following ALL the prescribed measures to maximise their own and others safety, I just wondered what further criteria would be required for people like Libero and yourself to feel it is acceptable for people to travel. If the answer is complete non existence of the virus then at least we can better understand your viewpoint. |
No, the answer is not "complete non existence of the virus" - but it is very complicated and requires people to not only have a 360 view of their own risk profile and local area but that of everyone they may potentially share space with and their area.
It's essentially unworkable in it's current form, but as Stokie points out, there are forces willing the acceptance of the unacceptable. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:30]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:29 - Jul 31 with 5101 views | Herbivore |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:23 - Jul 31 by mikeybloo88 |
Not sure why you felt the need to downtick a perfectly reasonable question, but have one back for calling it defensive. If people are allowed to do things AND do them following ALL the prescribed measures to maximise their own and others safety, I just wondered what further criteria would be required for people like Libero and yourself to feel it is acceptable for people to travel. If the answer is complete non existence of the virus then at least we can better understand your viewpoint. |
There is never going to be no virus, scientists now say it is endemic and we will just be living with it from now on. For me I think when either we have an effective vaccine (ideally) or effective treatment available that would reassure me, that would be a point at which people wouldn't have to socially distance or wear face masks as we would have medical means of controlling and/or treating the virus. Whilst all we have is trying to avoid transmission I don't think piling on a plane and going to crowded tourist destinations is a great idea. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:31]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:29 - Jul 31 with 5099 views | mikeybloo88 |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:25 - Jul 31 by Libero |
No, the answer is not "complete non existence of the virus" - but it is very complicated and requires people to not only have a 360 view of their own risk profile and local area but that of everyone they may potentially share space with and their area.
It's essentially unworkable in it's current form, but as Stokie points out, there are forces willing the acceptance of the unacceptable. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:30]
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Fair enough, but given that it is impossible that everyone will act responsibly and have that 360 view, there must be a point at which you will accept that to be the case and widen your own boundaries and accept others will widen theirs. I agree it is complicated... | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:32 - Jul 31 with 5078 views | mikeybloo88 |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:29 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
There is never going to be no virus, scientists now say it is endemic and we will just be living with it from now on. For me I think when either we have an effective vaccine (ideally) or effective treatment available that would reassure me, that would be a point at which people wouldn't have to socially distance or wear face masks as we would have medical means of controlling and/or treating the virus. Whilst all we have is trying to avoid transmission I don't think piling on a plane and going to crowded tourist destinations is a great idea. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:31]
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Thank you...you have attempted to clarify your criteria which I appreciate | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:38 - Jul 31 with 5063 views | StokieBlue |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:16 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
You know we have had previous pandemics too? It seems the criteria of when it is tight to travel doesmt belong to global governments or scientists it belongs to a few people from Suffolk.
The numbers of crete are ridiculous in comparison to here, if anything they should not be letting me in but they are happy to test and rely on people acting reasonably. To say that it is riskier there than here amongst the chaos sounds a bit xenophobic, that is probably too strong a word but it seems the fear that foreigners are the carriers |
"You know we have had previous pandemics too?"
It's simply not true that we've had a pandemic on this scale during the age of quick and cheap international transportation. No virus has ever "enjoyed" such a vector or quick and easy transportation to new areas and hosts.
If that's the starting point for your argument then you're on the wrong track already.
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:39]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:40 - Jul 31 with 5058 views | mikeybloo88 |
Back to he original topic, I think it's perfectly possible for people to partake safely in social activities and visit hospitality establishments and not add to the risk of virus transmission...it's what they do afterwards that matters, and subsequently gathering in large nondistancing social circles or households indoors would not seem to be wise. People really do need to think about what they do after they've had social contact and if they can't change their environment or habits, don't instigate mass social contact in the first place. | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:46 - Jul 31 with 5040 views | Bluefish |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:38 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
"You know we have had previous pandemics too?"
It's simply not true that we've had a pandemic on this scale during the age of quick and cheap international transportation. No virus has ever "enjoyed" such a vector or quick and easy transportation to new areas and hosts.
If that's the starting point for your argument then you're on the wrong track already.
SB [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:39]
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My starting point is that a few hicks on a football board aren't really best placed to overrule global guidance. Many people from suffolk will always be overly fearful of traveling and foreign things, it is why they voted for brexit despite very little immigration around them. |  |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:49 - Jul 31 with 5036 views | Libero |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:29 - Jul 31 by mikeybloo88 |
Fair enough, but given that it is impossible that everyone will act responsibly and have that 360 view, there must be a point at which you will accept that to be the case and widen your own boundaries and accept others will widen theirs. I agree it is complicated... |
I accept it already, I'm just not going to justify or accept other people acting belligerently.
I'll do everything I can to ensure I am doing the right thing and that those around me are safe and following sensible practise.
I am continually "widening my own boundaries" - for example, I was really pleased last week that various family members were able to see my son for his first birthday.
On Wednesday night we went to a friends' house for dinner, he and his family have just moved in over the road, I can't leave my house without walking past his. (both working from home, their son hasn't yet returned to school, house had sat empty for months before they moved in, delayed due to pandemic)
Slowly and steadily my life is returning to a form of "normal" - but if people continue to take the kinds of risks being discussed in this thread then it's only a matter of time until those freedoms are stripped from us again...
I've written this before, so forgive me if you've already read it...
On the NHS Birthday all Sky channels went to Sky news to show a little clap along they were having.
I think I was watching the Simpsons or something but it flicked over to Sky News for it and I couldn't believe what I was hearing!
Not once but twice I heard presenters refer to it being "the end of the pandemic" as well as over meaningless and factually inaccurate statements - this is essentially a blunt and in-eloquent version of the messaging that has been pushed out at the public in recent weeks, the government want us to carry on like nothing has changed while they offer their "guidance" which is so purposefully open to interpretation that it borders on the absurd.
The onus is well and truly on the individual. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 9:50]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:55 - Jul 31 with 5027 views | Libero |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:46 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
My starting point is that a few hicks on a football board aren't really best placed to overrule global guidance. Many people from suffolk will always be overly fearful of traveling and foreign things, it is why they voted for brexit despite very little immigration around them. |
Are you this much of a prat in real life or is it all just an internet persona? | | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:00 - Jul 31 with 5018 views | StokieBlue |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:46 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
My starting point is that a few hicks on a football board aren't really best placed to overrule global guidance. Many people from suffolk will always be overly fearful of traveling and foreign things, it is why they voted for brexit despite very little immigration around them. |
Where someone lives or where they were born are irrelevant to the detail of their argument and the validity of their points. You should treat them on merit not dismiss them using your own preconceptions.
There is no global guidance. Guidance is piecemeal and different for all locations and from all governments. It's also fluid and changing.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:01 - Jul 31 with 5013 views | 26_Paz |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 06:49 - Jul 31 by m14_blue |
That’s rubbish.
No chance of getting the money back through your insurance? |
I don’t have insurance unfortunately, I usually just buy a cheapo policy right before I go. I was being a little, dramatic ... I can get the hotel money back, minus a cancellation fee but not the flights. End up losing about half the money. |  |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:06 - Jul 31 with 4997 views | Herbivore |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:00 - Jul 31 by StokieBlue |
Where someone lives or where they were born are irrelevant to the detail of their argument and the validity of their points. You should treat them on merit not dismiss them using your own preconceptions.
There is no global guidance. Guidance is piecemeal and different for all locations and from all governments. It's also fluid and changing.
SB |
They had a doctor from NZ on the TV this morning earlier. Life there has gone entirely back to normal - full sports stadiums, grandparents hugging their grandchildren - with the exception of foreign travel. They still have quarantine and actually expect people to stick to it. Granted they have a much smaller population than us but they also locked down early and people stuck to lockdown and stuck it out until the virus had effectively been eliminated. We are so desperate to get back to 'notmal' that I can foresee rolling lockdowns being in place for the next year at least. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:11 - Jul 31 with 4983 views | Herbivore |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:46 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
My starting point is that a few hicks on a football board aren't really best placed to overrule global guidance. Many people from suffolk will always be overly fearful of traveling and foreign things, it is why they voted for brexit despite very little immigration around them. |
You live in Derby which also voted heavily in favour of Brexit and is hardly known as a seat of culture and enlightenment. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:13 - Jul 31 with 4976 views | Bluefish |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:11 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
You live in Derby which also voted heavily in favour of Brexit and is hardly known as a seat of culture and enlightenment. |
You think the cultural mix in derby is similar to suffolk? | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:15 - Jul 31 with 4971 views | Libero |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:06 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
They had a doctor from NZ on the TV this morning earlier. Life there has gone entirely back to normal - full sports stadiums, grandparents hugging their grandchildren - with the exception of foreign travel. They still have quarantine and actually expect people to stick to it. Granted they have a much smaller population than us but they also locked down early and people stuck to lockdown and stuck it out until the virus had effectively been eliminated. We are so desperate to get back to 'notmal' that I can foresee rolling lockdowns being in place for the next year at least. |
Sincerely, it appears to be the only viable model of returning to "normal life" without a vaccine.
Unfortunately I just can't see the UK adopting it. [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 10:18]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:20 - Jul 31 with 4956 views | Herbivore |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:13 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
You think the cultural mix in derby is similar to suffolk? |
No, where have I said that? I've said Derby voted leave, which is correct. I've said Derby is hardly known as a seat of culture and enlightenment, which is also correct. Derby looks like it was one the most pro-leave cities in the country, so your superior tone over people living in Suffolk on that issue is rather odd to be honest. I say that as someone who lives in an actual remain voting city. | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:25 - Jul 31 with 4936 views | Bluefish |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:20 - Jul 31 by Herbivore |
No, where have I said that? I've said Derby voted leave, which is correct. I've said Derby is hardly known as a seat of culture and enlightenment, which is also correct. Derby looks like it was one the most pro-leave cities in the country, so your superior tone over people living in Suffolk on that issue is rather odd to be honest. I say that as someone who lives in an actual remain voting city. |
My point was that suffolk people are fearful of things that are foreign despite having little exposure. I lived in suffolk for 32 years and there is a completely different attitude to that of the Midlands | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:25 - Jul 31 with 4935 views | Seablu |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:46 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
My starting point is that a few hicks on a football board aren't really best placed to overrule global guidance. Many people from suffolk will always be overly fearful of traveling and foreign things, it is why they voted for brexit despite very little immigration around them. |
Don’t be an imbecile.
It’s not all to do with xenophobia.
I don’t feel comfortable going abroad because there’s just as good a chance of transmitting it as bringing it back. |  | | |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:26 - Jul 31 with 4929 views | StokieBlue |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:13 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
You think the cultural mix in derby is similar to suffolk? |
It's irrelevant.
Your entire post was an ad-hominem.
Address the facts and the arguments, not the location of the person or their upbringing.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:26 - Jul 31 with 4926 views | footers |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 09:46 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
My starting point is that a few hicks on a football board aren't really best placed to overrule global guidance. Many people from suffolk will always be overly fearful of traveling and foreign things, it is why they voted for brexit despite very little immigration around them. |
"Every village has an idiot and Derbyshire has a lot of villages." [Post edited 31 Jul 2020 10:28]
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:28 - Jul 31 with 4916 views | Herbivore |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:25 - Jul 31 by Bluefish |
My point was that suffolk people are fearful of things that are foreign despite having little exposure. I lived in suffolk for 32 years and there is a completely different attitude to that of the Midlands |
And yet over 57% of your fellow Derby residents voted leave. That's only slightly lower than the leave vote in Suffolk. Does that mean Derby people are knowingly fearful of foreigners but that's okay? | |
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| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:29 - Jul 31 with 4911 views | Bluefish |
| New lockdown restrictions in Greater Manchester and North West on 10:25 - Jul 31 by Seablu |
Don’t be an imbecile.
It’s not all to do with xenophobia.
I don’t feel comfortable going abroad because there’s just as good a chance of transmitting it as bringing it back. |
It is a bizarre take for the worries to be from the country where the virus is more prevalent. For people in the UK to be upset at someone for visiting an island with little to no cases is no based on anything but the thought that foreigners are to blame. My parents are livid that all of our airports weren't closed because the foreigners kept bringing it in and making it worse, they couldn't seem to grasp that once it was here and spreading that it made little difference. The people tbat should be annoyed are those on the island with British people turning up despite the fact we have had a shambles of a lockdown here | |
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