| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... 15:00 - Aug 4 with 29123 views | WeWereZombies |
The next time anyone feels they have to absolutely win an argument, have the last say on a thread, pile in or claim to be piled into, maybe remember this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53607943 |  |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 20:06 - Aug 5 with 3715 views | Ryorry |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 19:35 - Aug 5 by lightuser |
Sorry Rorry . Disagree. I guess that you do not read Private Eye , "get out much". etc.?
"Corruption" is not the preserve of one party.
C-units always gravitate towards money/power.
Nepotism/"old boys networks"/"mates rates" usually being the result.
Right/left/central office, always the same in the end.
At all levels/races of humanity.
My apologies for being such a cynical bastard. ;))
Follow the money... |
It was, err, a light-hearted comment lightuser.
I haven't "got out much" for almost 5 months now, for probably obvious reasons, self-isolating - you got that bit correct ... [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 20:08]
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 20:39 - Aug 5 with 3680 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 19:35 - Aug 5 by lightuser |
Sorry Rorry . Disagree. I guess that you do not read Private Eye , "get out much". etc.?
"Corruption" is not the preserve of one party.
C-units always gravitate towards money/power.
Nepotism/"old boys networks"/"mates rates" usually being the result.
Right/left/central office, always the same in the end.
At all levels/races of humanity.
My apologies for being such a cynical bastard. ;))
Follow the money... |
The problem is that doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny. Those with money and power already tend to do what they can to preserve their position of privilege. Those types tend to gravitate to a particular party and tend to be of a certain class and predominantly they are white. Of course there will be the odd exception to the rule but your broad brush tarring of every individual whatever their station in life is wildly inaccurate. |  |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 21:04 - Aug 5 with 3665 views | lightuser |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 20:06 - Aug 5 by Ryorry |
It was, err, a light-hearted comment lightuser.
I haven't "got out much" for almost 5 months now, for probably obvious reasons, self-isolating - you got that bit correct ... [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 20:08]
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My apologies m'lady...ðŸ˜
We are in India, so in/out of lockdown regulalry. And an absolute arse because the tit of a pm and most hindis are teetotal and so the offies close for the duration.
Luckily, there are plenty of "illegal"l bars...
But remember that we live in the most interesting times ever (well my opinion anyway).
Information and fake info overload. Either the ability/lack of interlect to ignore/mis-interprete/manipulate this info to suit "your" own agenda.
Obviously not aimed at you. 😠|  | | |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 21:43 - Aug 5 with 3636 views | lightuser |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 20:39 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
The problem is that doesn't really stand up to any scrutiny. Those with money and power already tend to do what they can to preserve their position of privilege. Those types tend to gravitate to a particular party and tend to be of a certain class and predominantly they are white. Of course there will be the odd exception to the rule but your broad brush tarring of every individual whatever their station in life is wildly inaccurate. |
YSorry herbs. I normally agree with much of what you say.
But not this time.
I'm 56, retired early last year because of certain cretinious managers at work.
4 people have tried my job, could have been 5 or more but for covid.
I've said before that the greasy pole attracts a certain type of person.
I've always called them out for what they are. To their faces. I retired after 25 years there.
I don't give a feck about a persons "job". You say station.
I worked in warehouses, a factory and cleaning jobs. Don't give a sh*t.
Find it hilarious that when people ask what I did they can't compute that I worked in a factory and as a cleaner, I'm no longer working and they are still out there sucking balls.
They support all parties. They just gravitate towards the money. That is, whoever is in power. Look at Blair/Brown, as well as the current tits in power.
And then look the scandels involving bog standard local councillors.
And they are certainly not all white. That is defintely a falliacy (please withdraw this, people of all races and cultures carry out the most heinious crimes for profit).
My edit... changed "have carried out", to "carry out". [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 21:46]
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:17 - Aug 5 with 3612 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 21:43 - Aug 5 by lightuser |
YSorry herbs. I normally agree with much of what you say.
But not this time.
I'm 56, retired early last year because of certain cretinious managers at work.
4 people have tried my job, could have been 5 or more but for covid.
I've said before that the greasy pole attracts a certain type of person.
I've always called them out for what they are. To their faces. I retired after 25 years there.
I don't give a feck about a persons "job". You say station.
I worked in warehouses, a factory and cleaning jobs. Don't give a sh*t.
Find it hilarious that when people ask what I did they can't compute that I worked in a factory and as a cleaner, I'm no longer working and they are still out there sucking balls.
They support all parties. They just gravitate towards the money. That is, whoever is in power. Look at Blair/Brown, as well as the current tits in power.
And then look the scandels involving bog standard local councillors.
And they are certainly not all white. That is defintely a falliacy (please withdraw this, people of all races and cultures carry out the most heinious crimes for profit).
My edit... changed "have carried out", to "carry out". [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 21:46]
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That is just an utter mess of a post. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:36 - Aug 5 with 3604 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 17:38 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
You have suggested a number of times that you think the fact we exist and have consciousness and so on seems something that is implausible that it happened by chance. If it didn't happen by chance it must have happened by some sort of deliberate act, it's really not much of a step from there to intelligent design. And for life to have genuine meaning, which was the original debate, surely that meaning would need to have been built into it? Otherwise we're back to individuals ascribing meaning and that is something quite different.
The rest of your argument is all over the place. You're comparing man made inventions to your supernatural force that gives meaning to life whilst accusing others of straw manning. Come off it, mate.
The question "why does anything exist?" is misplaced for me. There is no why, it just does. |
No, a deliberate act doesn't remotely mean intelligent design. You've made a huge leap there and misrepresented what I said to try and belittle it. If I throw a lit match into a forest, the resultant fire wasn't intelligently designed by me.
I'm also NOT comparing man made inventions to a supernatural force. I'm comparing 'things that seemed implausible that now exist' to a 'thing that seems implausible.' That's it, but you knew that. Again, you're trying to belittle to win the point (as proven by adding that my argument is all over the place).
You're a bit of an arrogant sod and not easy to debate with, frankly. |  |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:38 - Aug 5 with 3600 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:36 - Aug 5 by BrixtonBlue |
No, a deliberate act doesn't remotely mean intelligent design. You've made a huge leap there and misrepresented what I said to try and belittle it. If I throw a lit match into a forest, the resultant fire wasn't intelligently designed by me.
I'm also NOT comparing man made inventions to a supernatural force. I'm comparing 'things that seemed implausible that now exist' to a 'thing that seems implausible.' That's it, but you knew that. Again, you're trying to belittle to win the point (as proven by adding that my argument is all over the place).
You're a bit of an arrogant sod and not easy to debate with, frankly. |
Toys out the pram again. Shame. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:40 - Aug 5 with 3598 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 17:45 - Aug 5 by StokieBlue |
It depends how you quantify intelligent.
For instance, octopus are very intelligent but due to them evolving in a water-based environment it's unlikely they could ever make the leap into technology similar to ours on even a small scale as most depend on fire at some stage in their development and electricity really doesn't like water.
There are also a other possibilities:
- Civilisations are only detectable for a short period as they move from radio which is imprecise and moves out into space to tight-beam communication which doesn't leave the locality of their planet.
- They might not want to be contacted.
- They signals are not what we are looking for at the moment. Perhaps they use lasers or some other technology. We have just started looking for lasers but if it's something we don't know then we can't spot it.
What do you mean nobody knows what's out there? We have a very good idea what is out there on the larger scales.
SB |
Fair points up to your last 2 sentences. There is a LOT we don't know about what's out there. We've barely scratched the surface. We don't even know if there's life on Mars, which is next door.
You've said yourself there could be all kinds of civilisations out there. How can you possibly attest we have a very good idea what's out there? | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 23:11 - Aug 5 with 3573 views | lightuser |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:17 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
That is just an utter mess of a post. |
Middle class white manager boy.
Enjoy the sucking off until you retire mate . | | | |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 23:23 - Aug 5 with 3563 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 23:11 - Aug 5 by lightuser |
Middle class white manager boy.
Enjoy the sucking off until you retire mate . |
Don't drink and post, mate. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 00:00 - Aug 6 with 3548 views | StokieBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:40 - Aug 5 by BrixtonBlue |
Fair points up to your last 2 sentences. There is a LOT we don't know about what's out there. We've barely scratched the surface. We don't even know if there's life on Mars, which is next door.
You've said yourself there could be all kinds of civilisations out there. How can you possibly attest we have a very good idea what's out there? |
You've not read my post. I said we have a good idea what is out there on the larger scales and you've then specifically cited small scale things. In general we know how the universe works and what large scale structures are at work.
You said this:
"I don't know about you, but I remember the moment when I was a kid and I realised no-one knows what's out there, apart from the relatively near stuff."
What I posted refers to the fact we do know what is out there on the larger scales but not the little things that are out there. You've said we know the near stuff and then said we don't even know about Mars. You need to be more precise in your posts because to be honest, at the moment they are a bit haphazard.
As I said though, good to have you back.
SB [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 0:15]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:31 - Aug 6 with 3502 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 22:38 - Aug 5 by Herbivore |
Toys out the pram again. Shame. |
And you're avoiding the points raised when they're bang on and thus a bit tricky to deal with.
I guess we'll leave it there. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:47 - Aug 6 with 3494 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:31 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
And you're avoiding the points raised when they're bang on and thus a bit tricky to deal with.
I guess we'll leave it there. |
I'm not avoiding anything. I've repeatedly stated my position. I may have missed the odd bit of a post, but you also - as demonstrated by Stokie and myself - have been somewhat selective in your reading of posts. You certainly haven't addressed everything I've raised, you've picked and chosen which bits to respond to. That tends to be how these debates go, Dollers. It's hard to keep up with every single point. Sadly I wouldn't describe a single one of the points you've made thus far "bang on" so if I've not responded to a particular point, please don't take that as evidence that it's so amazingly well made I have no come back. That isn't the case. There's also a certain irony in you calling someone difficult to debate with but there we are.
I'm genuinely not sure how much more clearly I can state my position to you and I feel that myself and the likes of Stokie have addressed your key points. It's clear you still want to believe there may be a meaning of life and a supernatural force behind it all. That's fine. I disagree and think I am on more solid ground with my view than you are with yours. Let's leave it there as you seem to be genuinely upset at me disagreeing with you on this. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 8:53]
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:53 - Aug 6 with 3488 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 00:00 - Aug 6 by StokieBlue |
You've not read my post. I said we have a good idea what is out there on the larger scales and you've then specifically cited small scale things. In general we know how the universe works and what large scale structures are at work.
You said this:
"I don't know about you, but I remember the moment when I was a kid and I realised no-one knows what's out there, apart from the relatively near stuff."
What I posted refers to the fact we do know what is out there on the larger scales but not the little things that are out there. You've said we know the near stuff and then said we don't even know about Mars. You need to be more precise in your posts because to be honest, at the moment they are a bit haphazard.
As I said though, good to have you back.
SB [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 0:15]
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Not really sure why you're not getting this.
I made a simple and general comment (not about either large or small scale) that when I was a kid I realised we don't know what's out there. We know about and have named lots of stars, comets, black holes etc. but we don't know what life might exist in the far reaches of space (we don't even know if there is any evidence of life on Mars, which is why we've just sent another probe).
I didn't say we don't know ANYTHING about what's out there. I just meant there's lots (and lots and lots) we don't know about, because it's too far away to see.
You're a bright lad stokers, I really didn't think I needed to go THIS precise! | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:55 - Aug 6 with 3484 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:53 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
Not really sure why you're not getting this.
I made a simple and general comment (not about either large or small scale) that when I was a kid I realised we don't know what's out there. We know about and have named lots of stars, comets, black holes etc. but we don't know what life might exist in the far reaches of space (we don't even know if there is any evidence of life on Mars, which is why we've just sent another probe).
I didn't say we don't know ANYTHING about what's out there. I just meant there's lots (and lots and lots) we don't know about, because it's too far away to see.
You're a bright lad stokers, I really didn't think I needed to go THIS precise! |
Yeah, it's definitely Stokie's fault. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:06 - Aug 6 with 3470 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:47 - Aug 6 by Herbivore |
I'm not avoiding anything. I've repeatedly stated my position. I may have missed the odd bit of a post, but you also - as demonstrated by Stokie and myself - have been somewhat selective in your reading of posts. You certainly haven't addressed everything I've raised, you've picked and chosen which bits to respond to. That tends to be how these debates go, Dollers. It's hard to keep up with every single point. Sadly I wouldn't describe a single one of the points you've made thus far "bang on" so if I've not responded to a particular point, please don't take that as evidence that it's so amazingly well made I have no come back. That isn't the case. There's also a certain irony in you calling someone difficult to debate with but there we are.
I'm genuinely not sure how much more clearly I can state my position to you and I feel that myself and the likes of Stokie have addressed your key points. It's clear you still want to believe there may be a meaning of life and a supernatural force behind it all. That's fine. I disagree and think I am on more solid ground with my view than you are with yours. Let's leave it there as you seem to be genuinely upset at me disagreeing with you on this. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 8:53]
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I'm not upset at your point of view, or that you disagree with mine.
What narks me is your arrogant posting style, and the way you twist things and then when that's pointed out you ignore it.
You cite things like intelligent design, I point out it's a straw man because I didn't say anything about intelligent design, you cite something I said which could be construed as intelligent design if you make a huge leap, I prove that's not the case with the match analogy, you clam up - for example.
And I've stated often, but perhaps haven't been clear enough, I don't think it's necessarily a "supernatural" force - that's just easy shorthand - but I do believe something caused it rather than 'it just happened,' which might be nothing more supernatural than magnetism (once we know what it is - magnetism presumably seemed supernatural before people understood it).
In short, if I've got this right, you believe everything just happened - nothing caused it, while I believe there has to have been some cause - some 'thing' we don't know about yet.
Given that pretty much everything we know has some sort of cause, I'm not sure how you can assert you're on more solid ground with your view than I am. That's for others to decide. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:09 - Aug 6 with 3464 views | WeWereZombies |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:06 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
I'm not upset at your point of view, or that you disagree with mine.
What narks me is your arrogant posting style, and the way you twist things and then when that's pointed out you ignore it.
You cite things like intelligent design, I point out it's a straw man because I didn't say anything about intelligent design, you cite something I said which could be construed as intelligent design if you make a huge leap, I prove that's not the case with the match analogy, you clam up - for example.
And I've stated often, but perhaps haven't been clear enough, I don't think it's necessarily a "supernatural" force - that's just easy shorthand - but I do believe something caused it rather than 'it just happened,' which might be nothing more supernatural than magnetism (once we know what it is - magnetism presumably seemed supernatural before people understood it).
In short, if I've got this right, you believe everything just happened - nothing caused it, while I believe there has to have been some cause - some 'thing' we don't know about yet.
Given that pretty much everything we know has some sort of cause, I'm not sure how you can assert you're on more solid ground with your view than I am. That's for others to decide. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmoved_mover | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:10 - Aug 6 with 3464 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 08:55 - Aug 6 by Herbivore |
Yeah, it's definitely Stokie's fault. |
AGAIN putting words in my mouth. If they ever have a 'putting words in mouths' section in the Olympics, you should enter! | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:16 - Aug 6 with 3453 views | BrixtonBlue |
That's very interesting, thanks. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:17 - Aug 6 with 3447 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:06 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
I'm not upset at your point of view, or that you disagree with mine.
What narks me is your arrogant posting style, and the way you twist things and then when that's pointed out you ignore it.
You cite things like intelligent design, I point out it's a straw man because I didn't say anything about intelligent design, you cite something I said which could be construed as intelligent design if you make a huge leap, I prove that's not the case with the match analogy, you clam up - for example.
And I've stated often, but perhaps haven't been clear enough, I don't think it's necessarily a "supernatural" force - that's just easy shorthand - but I do believe something caused it rather than 'it just happened,' which might be nothing more supernatural than magnetism (once we know what it is - magnetism presumably seemed supernatural before people understood it).
In short, if I've got this right, you believe everything just happened - nothing caused it, while I believe there has to have been some cause - some 'thing' we don't know about yet.
Given that pretty much everything we know has some sort of cause, I'm not sure how you can assert you're on more solid ground with your view than I am. That's for others to decide. |
So what about the meaning of life, which you think there may be? How can there be a meaning of life unless this has been built into the universe? You can't create meaning without some degree of will or sentience. That was what sparked this debate, your belief that there may be a meaning of life in contrast to me asserting that there isn't a meaning of life. I am interested in how you get to your assertion without some force having built such meaning into the universe. Otherwise we are left with the subjective meaning that individuals ascribe to life, which isn't the same thing.
That is why I cited intelligent design - as one small part of my argument by the way, which you've latched on to - as intelligent design is what would give life purpose and meaning. A bland and unspecified, possibly natural cause couldn't do that. You thoughtlessly tossing a match into a fire doesn't give meaning to that forest fire, you burning it down to create fertile land to feed your family does. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:32 - Aug 6 with 3435 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:17 - Aug 6 by Herbivore |
So what about the meaning of life, which you think there may be? How can there be a meaning of life unless this has been built into the universe? You can't create meaning without some degree of will or sentience. That was what sparked this debate, your belief that there may be a meaning of life in contrast to me asserting that there isn't a meaning of life. I am interested in how you get to your assertion without some force having built such meaning into the universe. Otherwise we are left with the subjective meaning that individuals ascribe to life, which isn't the same thing.
That is why I cited intelligent design - as one small part of my argument by the way, which you've latched on to - as intelligent design is what would give life purpose and meaning. A bland and unspecified, possibly natural cause couldn't do that. You thoughtlessly tossing a match into a fire doesn't give meaning to that forest fire, you burning it down to create fertile land to feed your family does. |
Ok, excellent post, thanks.
I guess we've been at crossed-purposes about the meaning of meaning!
You're right, meaning requires will or sentience - so that meaning must either come from us or some other being (which, by our standards, would mean supernatural).
I see nothing wrong with the meaning of life coming from us - if it fits with the laws and makes sense of the world/the universe/life. Perhaps the theory of everything, if it's ever discovered, will give life meaning. It will make sense, in the way an equation makes sense.
BTW, although I said I don't NECESSARILY think there could be what we'd describe as a "supernatural" creator, I wouldn't 100% rule it out either. I find it hard to explain what I mean sometimes, but there could be something which isn't NECESSARILY supernatural but would SEEM supernatural to us, merely because we have no frame of reference for it.
I think the best example I could use is that my cat has no concept of the internet. The internet is very real, nevertheless; there's nothing supernatural about it.
You might argue, why do we need to invent this thing when the easier explanation is 'stuff just happened'? I'd take it back to what I've always said - I don't think 'stuff just happened' is an adequate answer to the complexity around us. And the fact that pretty much everything we know has a cause.
I might be wrong, but some kind of cause (and perhaps also meaning) makes more sense to me than it all just happened out of nothing. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 9:43]
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 10:01 - Aug 6 with 3410 views | Herbivore |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:32 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
Ok, excellent post, thanks.
I guess we've been at crossed-purposes about the meaning of meaning!
You're right, meaning requires will or sentience - so that meaning must either come from us or some other being (which, by our standards, would mean supernatural).
I see nothing wrong with the meaning of life coming from us - if it fits with the laws and makes sense of the world/the universe/life. Perhaps the theory of everything, if it's ever discovered, will give life meaning. It will make sense, in the way an equation makes sense.
BTW, although I said I don't NECESSARILY think there could be what we'd describe as a "supernatural" creator, I wouldn't 100% rule it out either. I find it hard to explain what I mean sometimes, but there could be something which isn't NECESSARILY supernatural but would SEEM supernatural to us, merely because we have no frame of reference for it.
I think the best example I could use is that my cat has no concept of the internet. The internet is very real, nevertheless; there's nothing supernatural about it.
You might argue, why do we need to invent this thing when the easier explanation is 'stuff just happened'? I'd take it back to what I've always said - I don't think 'stuff just happened' is an adequate answer to the complexity around us. And the fact that pretty much everything we know has a cause.
I might be wrong, but some kind of cause (and perhaps also meaning) makes more sense to me than it all just happened out of nothing. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 9:43]
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All fair enough, Dollers. This feels like a good point to pull things to a close. I like you Dollers and I'm glad you're back, even if we do have the odd bit of back and forth. Have a good day. | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 11:13 - Aug 6 with 3388 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 10:01 - Aug 6 by Herbivore |
All fair enough, Dollers. This feels like a good point to pull things to a close. I like you Dollers and I'm glad you're back, even if we do have the odd bit of back and forth. Have a good day. |
Likewise. May your god go with you! | |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 12:33 - Aug 6 with 3361 views | Darth_Koont |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 09:32 - Aug 6 by BrixtonBlue |
Ok, excellent post, thanks.
I guess we've been at crossed-purposes about the meaning of meaning!
You're right, meaning requires will or sentience - so that meaning must either come from us or some other being (which, by our standards, would mean supernatural).
I see nothing wrong with the meaning of life coming from us - if it fits with the laws and makes sense of the world/the universe/life. Perhaps the theory of everything, if it's ever discovered, will give life meaning. It will make sense, in the way an equation makes sense.
BTW, although I said I don't NECESSARILY think there could be what we'd describe as a "supernatural" creator, I wouldn't 100% rule it out either. I find it hard to explain what I mean sometimes, but there could be something which isn't NECESSARILY supernatural but would SEEM supernatural to us, merely because we have no frame of reference for it.
I think the best example I could use is that my cat has no concept of the internet. The internet is very real, nevertheless; there's nothing supernatural about it.
You might argue, why do we need to invent this thing when the easier explanation is 'stuff just happened'? I'd take it back to what I've always said - I don't think 'stuff just happened' is an adequate answer to the complexity around us. And the fact that pretty much everything we know has a cause.
I might be wrong, but some kind of cause (and perhaps also meaning) makes more sense to me than it all just happened out of nothing. [Post edited 6 Aug 2020 9:43]
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"You might argue, why do we need to invent this thing when the easier explanation is 'stuff just happened'? I'd take it back to what I've always said - I don't think 'stuff just happened' is an adequate answer to the complexity around us. And the fact that pretty much everything we know has a cause."
You're right about causes but:
Physics causes chemistry.
Chemistry causes biochemistry.
Biochemistry causes biology.
Biology causes us.
That's a massive chain which over billions of years creates enormous variation and complexity. But all of these steps are repeatable in the lab.
Our only struggle is to understand how the initial seed of energy (matter is essentially the same thing) was planted that everything came from. But that could be as random as a spark and itself doesn't suggest any plan or design. |  |
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| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 12:55 - Aug 6 with 3338 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nothing really matters, anyone can see, nothing really matters much... on 12:33 - Aug 6 by Darth_Koont |
"You might argue, why do we need to invent this thing when the easier explanation is 'stuff just happened'? I'd take it back to what I've always said - I don't think 'stuff just happened' is an adequate answer to the complexity around us. And the fact that pretty much everything we know has a cause."
You're right about causes but:
Physics causes chemistry.
Chemistry causes biochemistry.
Biochemistry causes biology.
Biology causes us.
That's a massive chain which over billions of years creates enormous variation and complexity. But all of these steps are repeatable in the lab.
Our only struggle is to understand how the initial seed of energy (matter is essentially the same thing) was planted that everything came from. But that could be as random as a spark and itself doesn't suggest any plan or design. |
1. You reckon you could create a human in a lab? Hello Mr. Frankenstein, I didn't know you were a Town fan!
2. Where did the spark come from? Everything in the physical realm has a source. Even particles that just randomly pop into existence have come from somewhere.
The paradox of there can't have been a time when there was nothing (because something can't just come from nothing) but there MUST have been a time when there was nothing (in anything physical you always have a beginning) suggests that our universe - the big bang - must've come from somewhere else. Somewhere not governed by the same rules and laws (and either can create things from nothing or doesn't require a beginning, i.e. it's eternal).
You could argue our universe was created in another universe, and even THAT universe was created in another universe and so on, but eventually you get to a point of "what was the first one created from?"
It MUST be from somewhere not governed by the same laws, surely? | |
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