| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:52 - Aug 5 with 2750 views | BlueBadger |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:39 - Aug 5 by ElderGrizzly |
So one phone call then? |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:55 - Aug 5 with 2742 views | itfcjoe |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:51 - Aug 5 by Libero |
Before their off field roles at the club Paul Hurst made 455 professional appearances across the football league, Lee O'Neil failed to make the grade at Ipswich Town, went to uni a couple of times and did P.E lessons for Middle School kids.
If he'd even dared to try to tell Paul Hurst who he should or shouldn't be getting rid of he would have been laughed out of the room.
That aside, he's also isn't the sort of character that's going to make those strong moves. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 14:53]
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The fact he used to be a teacher is utterly irrelevant and such a pointless thing to keep bringing up, he is our Head of Football Operation so should have been in a position to tell Hurst what to do. If he wasn't then, then he certainly is now as his role expands and grows. |  |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:06 - Aug 5 with 2712 views | Libero |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:55 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
The fact he used to be a teacher is utterly irrelevant and such a pointless thing to keep bringing up, he is our Head of Football Operation so should have been in a position to tell Hurst what to do. If he wasn't then, then he certainly is now as his role expands and grows. |
Imagine it though.
You've just been appointed Manager of the club, you have a decade of experience managing teams and a professional career playing for years and years.
If O'Neil was brave enough to conflict with what you're saying you wouldn't take it, would you? Not only do you have significantly more relevant experience but you're the man they've hired to make these hard decisions, you expect their backing!
I would say It worries me that O'Neil may have that kind of clout, but he can't do much worse than Lambert as it stands.
I guess the structure and the power that O'Neil now welds is another reason why the next appointment needs to be an Ipswich man, I can't imagine many managers from outside coming in, looking at O'Neils CV and being happy to be in a situation where he may be able to veto their decision. |  | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:19 - Aug 5 with 2679 views | RegencyBlue |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 13:54 - Aug 5 by Darth_Koont |
Personally, I always thought the 5-point plan was a good over-arching strategy for a club like us.
Problem was that it was going to take time to produce on-field and off-field results simply because it relied on an academy and u23 set-up that didn't really start producing enough of the young players needed until Mick's last year. But nevertheless, Hurst inherited a great platform of young players, significant transfer value in the squad at the same time as the squad was as sustainable as it's ever been in recent years.
So the question is not why is that approach being pushed again, but why did Evans, O'Neill, Hurst and Lambert seemingly abandon it and make all the previous sacrifices worthless? If that's the approach he wants, just why did Evans sign off on that?
I don't get it. |
The much vaunted five point plan always seemed to me to be the bare minimum a club our size should be doing.
It has no real substance and is more of a PR exercise, something to pull out of the hat every time the going gets tough! |  | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:25 - Aug 5 with 2658 views | RegencyBlue |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:05 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
That's the key point, he let Hurst take a wrecking ball to the squad, O'Neill was in the building when all this was going on too - this is the worry |
You obviously have contacts at the club, what do you genuinely think of O’Neill?
As an outsider looking in it looks like he was promoted from within, because he was a cheap option, to take the heat off Evans when required. His public utterances do not fill me with any confidence whatsoever but is that being unfair? | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:31 - Aug 5 with 2638 views | LankHenners |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:06 - Aug 5 by Libero |
Imagine it though.
You've just been appointed Manager of the club, you have a decade of experience managing teams and a professional career playing for years and years.
If O'Neil was brave enough to conflict with what you're saying you wouldn't take it, would you? Not only do you have significantly more relevant experience but you're the man they've hired to make these hard decisions, you expect their backing!
I would say It worries me that O'Neil may have that kind of clout, but he can't do much worse than Lambert as it stands.
I guess the structure and the power that O'Neil now welds is another reason why the next appointment needs to be an Ipswich man, I can't imagine many managers from outside coming in, looking at O'Neils CV and being happy to be in a situation where he may be able to veto their decision. |
It's not like all other sporting directors/heads of football etc. are vastly experienced ex-pros with international caps and multiple trophies to their name. Plenty of them are just some guy who's pretty smart.
It's not particularly unusual to have a situation where the manager has more 'football experience', for want of a better term, than the man above them but the latter is there to look after the club and stop things like Hurst swinging a scythe through the team.
That O'Neill didn't/couldn't shows the club has a structural/organisational problem, which has been evident for years. No-one can confidently say whether he's an objectively good person to have in that position but he's been at the club for years and heavily involved in one of its few successes so can clearly handle himself. If Evans doesn't let him do a job properly (and it be a job rather than several at once), then we'll never know and we'll never get anywhere. |  |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:33 - Aug 5 with 2626 views | Libero |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:31 - Aug 5 by LankHenners |
It's not like all other sporting directors/heads of football etc. are vastly experienced ex-pros with international caps and multiple trophies to their name. Plenty of them are just some guy who's pretty smart.
It's not particularly unusual to have a situation where the manager has more 'football experience', for want of a better term, than the man above them but the latter is there to look after the club and stop things like Hurst swinging a scythe through the team.
That O'Neill didn't/couldn't shows the club has a structural/organisational problem, which has been evident for years. No-one can confidently say whether he's an objectively good person to have in that position but he's been at the club for years and heavily involved in one of its few successes so can clearly handle himself. If Evans doesn't let him do a job properly (and it be a job rather than several at once), then we'll never know and we'll never get anywhere. |
You're not wrong, but I think you're under estimating just how little O'Neil has to him, he's certainly not "some guy who's pretty smart" | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:33 - Aug 5 with 2627 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:25 - Aug 5 by RegencyBlue |
You obviously have contacts at the club, what do you genuinely think of O’Neill?
As an outsider looking in it looks like he was promoted from within, because he was a cheap option, to take the heat off Evans when required. His public utterances do not fill me with any confidence whatsoever but is that being unfair? |
His remit is far too large and he doesn't have enough authority to make decisions. Other clubs employ three people to cover his job spec.
As I've said a million times on this board, Evans biggest failing is not putting a proper structure in place from day one. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 15:36]
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:34 - Aug 5 with 2620 views | Darth_Koont |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:19 - Aug 5 by RegencyBlue |
The much vaunted five point plan always seemed to me to be the bare minimum a club our size should be doing.
It has no real substance and is more of a PR exercise, something to pull out of the hat every time the going gets tough! |
Yes and no.
It needs strategies and KPIs for each point, definitely, but it's a very different approach to say Leeds or Brentford. At its height during Mick's last years it also chimed with us spending far more of our footballing budget on the academy and development players as a proportion of the overall spend.
The plan is sound and a relatively distinctive take on our situation. The continual and focused implementation of it has definitely been poor though, given we've done something different over the last couple of years. |  |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:39 - Aug 5 with 2591 views | LankHenners |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:33 - Aug 5 by Libero |
You're not wrong, but I think you're under estimating just how little O'Neil has to him, he's certainly not "some guy who's pretty smart" |
Well he's more than an 'ex-PE teacher'. | |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:45 - Aug 5 with 2569 views | Libero |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:39 - Aug 5 by LankHenners |
Well he's more than an 'ex-PE teacher'. |
Yes, he's also qualified in Sports Science and did a Business studies degree, that does not make him qualified to take on the clubs player recruitment strategy and various other things that now fall under his broad wingspan.
He literally failed to take us up a category in his job as Academy Manager, that's when it was his only focus at the club too, how in any business does failing to achieve your main objective result in the kind of promotion O'Neil has recieved?
He's there because he's "impressed" Evans with all the b0llocks he talks.
Cynically I think Evans appointed him not only for his "yes man" qualities but because he thought it'd play well with the supporters as O'Neil is a local and former Academy player. | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:59 - Aug 5 with 2550 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:19 - Aug 5 by RegencyBlue |
The much vaunted five point plan always seemed to me to be the bare minimum a club our size should be doing.
It has no real substance and is more of a PR exercise, something to pull out of the hat every time the going gets tough! |
Yep. As an actual plan, it was largely nonsense. It's a hashed together list of the bleeding obvious combined with some vague aspiration. Let's have a look:
1 — ‘To provide a significant ongoing financial commitment to the club’s academy, enabling a steady flow of players into the first-team’.
Well, ok, fair enough. But then any club with an academy is going to have to fund it and then want to see academy players progressing. Are we making a conscious decision to pump more into the academy, or is it just that the amounts needed to run it are seen as "significant" and haven't actually changed?
2 — ‘To provide a sustainable and competitive squad salary budget’
Clearly a failure in terms of competitiveness in Championship. By the time we were relegated we had the 20th lowest wage budget in the league.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdWdE2CWAAEhuMW?format=jpg&name=medium
Sustainable? Maybe it is that. Maybe it was what ME could afford to spend. Slightly different in League 1 of course. We are competitive again, but only due to circumstances not because of the plan.
3 — ‘To make annual investment funds available to purchase players in the early stages of their career and to assist in their development’
Ok. So this is a contentious one. We obviously don't spend a lot of money on transfers https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdWdHWLXoAA8fER?format=jpg&name=medium
So given limited funds, we want to spend those on younger players with room to develop.
We've done fairly well against this aim in fairness. The only transfer fee last summer was for KVY, who could turn out to be a great bit of business.
The year before, players we paid for were 25 or younger (Jackson, Harrison and Edwards). There were a few older ones picked up on frees. The problem there though was that most were also poor and show no sign of improving. As usual, ME's focus is on the money and not the quality.
4 — ‘Maintaining a stable management and coaching team’
We're not set up to do this. Every time we change manager (each of who has different ideas about how to play) we change the core management and coaching team around them. Personally, I don't think this point has any purpose in how ME's set it out. If he was to put a structure in place from youth, coaching, recruitment, to operate in a certain way and provide stability to cope better with manager change (e.g. as Brentford have), that would be a different matter. Let's face it, not many managers stay for long. At our level if we have a very successful manager, he'll be gone after a season. We have to plan to cope with those changes. Planning to avoid them is destined to fail and then also slows down change when it is needed (like now).
5 — ‘To develop a team to play attractive and exciting football’
Simply a wish, with no plan behind it. As proven by performances and some of the players we've signed, who can barely pass water let alone a football. Meaningless piffle to try to appeal to some of the fanbase. |  |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:01 - Aug 5 with 2543 views | LankHenners |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 15:45 - Aug 5 by Libero |
Yes, he's also qualified in Sports Science and did a Business studies degree, that does not make him qualified to take on the clubs player recruitment strategy and various other things that now fall under his broad wingspan.
He literally failed to take us up a category in his job as Academy Manager, that's when it was his only focus at the club too, how in any business does failing to achieve your main objective result in the kind of promotion O'Neil has recieved?
He's there because he's "impressed" Evans with all the b0llocks he talks.
Cynically I think Evans appointed him not only for his "yes man" qualities but because he thought it'd play well with the supporters as O'Neil is a local and former Academy player. |
Evans probably did appoint him because it was a fairly easy and presumably cheap(er) option, but iirc the not getting to Category A was reacted to with bemusement by pretty much everyone wasn't it? Didn't the club miss out by a fraction of a percent despite doing everything they'd been told to do to achieve Cat A?
I do think he's not a particularly convincing public speaker which works against him, although to give him his due I'm not sure many people could stand there and reassuringly defend the club on most issues.
I'll tell you what though, if he and Lambert genuinely believe that last season's problems were down to "a couple of bad months" then we're pretty fcked. | |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:04 - Aug 5 with 2523 views | Libero |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:01 - Aug 5 by LankHenners |
Evans probably did appoint him because it was a fairly easy and presumably cheap(er) option, but iirc the not getting to Category A was reacted to with bemusement by pretty much everyone wasn't it? Didn't the club miss out by a fraction of a percent despite doing everything they'd been told to do to achieve Cat A?
I do think he's not a particularly convincing public speaker which works against him, although to give him his due I'm not sure many people could stand there and reassuringly defend the club on most issues.
I'll tell you what though, if he and Lambert genuinely believe that last season's problems were down to "a couple of bad months" then we're pretty fcked. |
They missed out multiple times with O'Neil in charge. | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:07 - Aug 5 with 2504 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 14:55 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
The fact he used to be a teacher is utterly irrelevant and such a pointless thing to keep bringing up, he is our Head of Football Operation so should have been in a position to tell Hurst what to do. If he wasn't then, then he certainly is now as his role expands and grows. |
He wasn't appointed to that role until after Hurst had been sacked. And, as I understand it, managers work to Evans, not to Lee or in the past, Milne or Clegg.
As I think we've both said in the past, a chief executive/sporting director role, who the manager works to, would be a better structure than the one we have at present. |  | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:11 - Aug 5 with 2487 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:04 - Aug 5 by Libero |
They missed out multiple times with O'Neil in charge. |
As far as I'm aware they applied for cat one once, in 2014 when Bryan Klug was the academy director. | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:13 - Aug 5 with 2483 views | BryanPlug |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:07 - Aug 5 by PhilTWTD |
He wasn't appointed to that role until after Hurst had been sacked. And, as I understand it, managers work to Evans, not to Lee or in the past, Milne or Clegg.
As I think we've both said in the past, a chief executive/sporting director role, who the manager works to, would be a better structure than the one we have at present. |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:17 - Aug 5 with 2472 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:13 - Aug 5 by BryanPlug |
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That I don't know. But I'm not sure he'd be suited to that sort of role anyway, it's more of a football business sort of position than a footballing one as such and George is more a tracksuit manager.
The only ex-player I can think of off the top of my head with that sort of experience is Frank Yallop in his role at Fresno and he's now a head coach at Las Vegas Lights I've just discovered. Jason de Vos maybe has the sort of relevant experience behind a desk as well but he's got a bigger job with the Canadian Soccer Association. | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:29 - Aug 5 with 2438 views | itfcjoe |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:07 - Aug 5 by PhilTWTD |
He wasn't appointed to that role until after Hurst had been sacked. And, as I understand it, managers work to Evans, not to Lee or in the past, Milne or Clegg.
As I think we've both said in the past, a chief executive/sporting director role, who the manager works to, would be a better structure than the one we have at present. |
But LON is the only one of those 3 with relevant experience and ability to get involved in things like recruitment, whilst also being eyes and ears at the club for Evans.
That’s my greatest concern, that he was in situ when the Huest disaster unfolded and wasn’t able to get into Evans ear quicker or more effectively. Is he capable of standing up to Evans? | |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:37 - Aug 5 with 2413 views | patrickswell |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:29 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
But LON is the only one of those 3 with relevant experience and ability to get involved in things like recruitment, whilst also being eyes and ears at the club for Evans.
That’s my greatest concern, that he was in situ when the Huest disaster unfolded and wasn’t able to get into Evans ear quicker or more effectively. Is he capable of standing up to Evans? |
Was his brief not different during Hurst’s tenure? If he was more connected to the Academy, and one of their concerns was that Hurst was sidelining them rather than engaging with them, then he may have been able to point this out as part of his remit at the time. |  | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:40 - Aug 5 with 2401 views | itfcjoe |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:37 - Aug 5 by patrickswell |
Was his brief not different during Hurst’s tenure? If he was more connected to the Academy, and one of their concerns was that Hurst was sidelining them rather than engaging with them, then he may have been able to point this out as part of his remit at the time. |
Possibly, we don’t truly know what it was unofficially but from what I understand he very much had MEs ear at that point | |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:49 - Aug 5 with 2375 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:29 - Aug 5 by itfcjoe |
But LON is the only one of those 3 with relevant experience and ability to get involved in things like recruitment, whilst also being eyes and ears at the club for Evans.
That’s my greatest concern, that he was in situ when the Huest disaster unfolded and wasn’t able to get into Evans ear quicker or more effectively. Is he capable of standing up to Evans? |
Lee was appointed to his role after Lambert took over but would have been part of the circle so to speak when Hurst was here, although wasn't really his job to raise concerns as the academy manager. I know others did - I think we both heard similar around that time - but whether he did I don't know.
As I understand it, Lee's role means he has taken on some of what was Marcus's domain - liaising with agents etc - some of Ian Milne's - media, face of the club type stuff, overall running of the off-field aspects - and some of the off-field elements of the manager's job.
Like PL he works to ME. I can't say how the dynamic works, certainly in the position between the owner and the manager, the incumbent has to have the confidence to give his honest opinion to the owner regardless of the owner's thoughts, which I assume is what you're saying. | | | |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:51 - Aug 5 with 2368 views | PhilTWTD |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 16:37 - Aug 5 by patrickswell |
Was his brief not different during Hurst’s tenure? If he was more connected to the Academy, and one of their concerns was that Hurst was sidelining them rather than engaging with them, then he may have been able to point this out as part of his remit at the time. |
Bridging the gap between the academy and the first team was something he talked about when he was appointed to the new role. I think that had been something which had been talked about when Mick was here, so not just a reaction to Hurst.
 O'Neill: Shareholders' Frustrations Understandable 4th Dec 2018 22:42New general manager of football operations Lee O’Neill admitted he understood the frustrations expressed by some shareholders at this evening’s PLC AGM held in the Sir Bobby Robson Suite at Portman Road.  31
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 19:09 - Aug 5 with 2273 views | Chrisd |
For this week. I wonder what the new ones will be come September?! | |
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| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 22:13 - Aug 5 with 2204 views | RegencyBlue |
| Evans stresses core principles to staff and players on 13:54 - Aug 5 by DanTheMan |
There's a plan!? |
A five point one apparently! | | | |
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