| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. 14:30 - Aug 7 with 16415 views | Coco |
Clear route to the first team. Excellent coaching. Clear strategy. Brilliant recruitment.
But we don't. |  |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:43 - Aug 7 with 3683 views | hype313 |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:24 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Not wholly opposed, but... my worry would be that the physical side of the game is totally different from when Burley was last Ipswich boss. Players in 2020 are, generally speaking, expected to be faster, fitter and stronger than they were 20 years ago.
Now, I'm sure that's something you could work around - hire someone to take on that side of the game. But, there are knock on effects on how teams play, how other teams restrict what your team can do, how you identify players. I expect it shapes how you train and set up tactically too. |
I'd say Mogga was/is stronger than Chambers, I'd say Holland was fitter than Skuse, and on a par with Downes, I'd say Stewart was faster, fitter and stronger than any of our front two, Gus was faster and fitter than any of our current right backs, and if you think Clapham wasn't a machine going forward and back then you're mad.
I really don't think Burley would have much to do on that front, and as Libby says, that's all done by the fitness coaches etc. |  |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:45 - Aug 7 with 3674 views | Libero |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:42 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Definitely, but I don't think it'd necessarily fitness plans and sports science stuff that are the problem exactly (like you say, we have people for that), but the way those different levels of fitness bleed into the more conventional aspects of managing/coaching the team.
Do you end up recruiting players whose attitude/fitness would've been fine in 2000, but not now? Do you set up in ways that become a problem when the opposition can physically do things they couldn't do 2 decades ago? [Post edited 7 Aug 2020 15:45]
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As I just said in my response to Dollers, the information will be presented in a digestible way by a member of the department and then it's up to the manager to potentially utilise the information.
I hear you, but again, I repeat, Burley's sides were technically and tactically well ahead of their time. The only other British teams I recall playing 3 at the back during the late 90's early 00's were Spurs under Hoddle and Redknapp's West Ham.
You're getting into a different territory in my opinion, what you're talking about is more about the structure of the club and potentially Lee O'Neils role. I'm not saying it's not up for debate, I'm just saying that it bares very little relevance to if George Burley is or isn't considered a valid candidate. |  | | |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:47 - Aug 7 with 3660 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:32 - Aug 7 by Libero |
salary cap isn't as new to managers used to working on a tight budget (much tighter than limassol, palace, soton, hearts & ipswich!)
The salary cap is literally hours old, don't try and tell me it's not new.
You clearly don't know much about some of the situations George has had to work in, in the past, I'd say he's very well versed in following budgetary constraints.
a young player is on superstar wages now, we couldjn't have kept a dyer/wright etc happy for that long in league one
Sorry? What is your point? Players get paid more? Well yeah, although as we've already established they've just brought in a salary cap...
Which of our young players is on "superstar wages"?
You're quite literally making no sense, the closest thing to logic I can make from your point is that you think that because some of our young players leave at an earlier age than they did in Burley's previous tenure, the job Burley does will be affected?
Well that's the case for all managers...
it's not possible to bring in magics/moggas etc with a salary cap
Magilton wasn't wanted at Wednesday, Mowbray not wanted at Celtic.
Players will still move clubs, even before today's news the transfer market was in turmoil thanks to Covid-19, you cannot say with any authority that it will stop players with a certain profile moving to club X, Y, Z - it's too early, we just don't know what trends will develop yet.
Regardless, Burley's teams were just that, teams. He was a master at piecing a team together and making the whole greater than the sum of it's parts.
tactics/formation, nope just general, older managers generally struggle as time goes by. even a master like mourinho is struggling to adapt despite being in constant employment
Again, spurious b0llocks reinforced by an irrelevant example.
It's a side bar, but I'd say Mourinho's issues are more about his man management and how he relates with players now he is an older gentleman, he is still the astute tactician.
burley had massive backing (too much in the end) from sheepy, he'd not get that from evans. even if it were possible, you can't see evans rescuing us with a stewart type signing.
Premier League demise aside, Burley ran the club with Sheepshanks very, very well. Year on year we would sell a player and replace them with someone who cost less, when we sold Dyer we didn't really go for a like -for-like replacement, I believe McGreal, J.Wright and Croft came in, Stewart arrived later but I believe he was paid for by the Dyer money? Although I also seem to remember having a chat with Phil on here a few months ago where he said otherwise? Either way.
the academy structure is massive. so many of the best young players are stolen away by the category a teams, that it's doubtful whether we could ever get the scowies/wrights/dyers in the first place, let alone hang onto them when they showed any promise (see flores/brown/knight/benyu)
Sorry mate, but you're exposing yourself as a bit out of touch here by putting Benyu in amongst those names, Benyu wasn't considered anywhere near as bright a prospect as the other names mentioned.
I've already answered this point in my previous response anyway...
So yeah, still no really pertinent point that discredits Burley's application.
Any one else got anything? [Post edited 7 Aug 2020 15:33]
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His argument's full of holes when you break it down. And much of it's downright disingenuous. |  |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:51 - Aug 7 with 3651 views | jayessess |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:45 - Aug 7 by Libero |
As I just said in my response to Dollers, the information will be presented in a digestible way by a member of the department and then it's up to the manager to potentially utilise the information.
I hear you, but again, I repeat, Burley's sides were technically and tactically well ahead of their time. The only other British teams I recall playing 3 at the back during the late 90's early 00's were Spurs under Hoddle and Redknapp's West Ham.
You're getting into a different territory in my opinion, what you're talking about is more about the structure of the club and potentially Lee O'Neils role. I'm not saying it's not up for debate, I'm just saying that it bares very little relevance to if George Burley is or isn't considered a valid candidate. |
Like I say, I'm not wholly opposed to the idea. I just don't think it would be without its risks and there are reasons why managers don't tend to disappear for a decade then pop up again and make a great success of things. |  |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:52 - Aug 7 with 3643 views | jayessess |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:43 - Aug 7 by hype313 |
I'd say Mogga was/is stronger than Chambers, I'd say Holland was fitter than Skuse, and on a par with Downes, I'd say Stewart was faster, fitter and stronger than any of our front two, Gus was faster and fitter than any of our current right backs, and if you think Clapham wasn't a machine going forward and back then you're mad.
I really don't think Burley would have much to do on that front, and as Libby says, that's all done by the fitness coaches etc. |
I think it's more or less impossible to do these sorts of comparisons one on one because all of them are playing in different contexts. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:54 - Aug 7 with 3639 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:42 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Definitely, but I don't think it'd necessarily fitness plans and sports science stuff that are the problem exactly (like you say, we have people for that), but the way those different levels of fitness bleed into the more conventional aspects of managing/coaching the team.
Do you end up recruiting players whose attitude/fitness would've been fine in 2000, but not now? Do you set up in ways that become a problem when the opposition can physically do things they couldn't do 2 decades ago? [Post edited 7 Aug 2020 15:45]
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Why are you judging Burley on 20 years ago? And what attitudes are different amongst players now compared to 2000 anyway? I think players were fairly professional in 2000. They weren't exactly having a half time fag! | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:59 - Aug 7 with 3628 views | hype313 |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:52 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
I think it's more or less impossible to do these sorts of comparisons one on one because all of them are playing in different contexts. |
Lets just agree to disagree  | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:59 - Aug 7 with 3627 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:51 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Like I say, I'm not wholly opposed to the idea. I just don't think it would be without its risks and there are reasons why managers don't tend to disappear for a decade then pop up again and make a great success of things. |
What have we got to risk now? We're fooked anyway.
Roll the dice I say. A bit of passion for ITFC might make a difference. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:59 - Aug 7 with 3626 views | jayessess |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:54 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue |
Why are you judging Burley on 20 years ago? And what attitudes are different amongst players now compared to 2000 anyway? I think players were fairly professional in 2000. They weren't exactly having a half time fag! |
Mainly because that was Burley's principle period of success.
They might not have been having a half time fag, but I think we massively under-estimate how much the game has changed since then. There are very few bosses who were successful then and are still successful now, even fewer who came back after a long period out of the game. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:00 - Aug 7 with 3620 views | hadleighboyblue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 14:39 - Aug 7 by Libero |
Right here, right now, Burley's the only man for the job.
Tony Mowbray would also be a good fit, but why would he want to come here?
When Lambert is sacked I really, really, really hope they give it to George, let's just hope it happens before we lose all identity as a club. |
Burley with some good coaches in sounds a lot better than the current set up . Still think any manager needs a good assistant / coach . Not sure we have anyone here now that can pull things together , sad to say ITFC have become a mess on and off the field . We have no plan or strategy .
Can't believe we have the same manager and coach as last season after such an underachievement . |  | | |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:00 - Aug 7 with 3620 views | positivity |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:47 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue |
His argument's full of holes when you break it down. And much of it's downright disingenuous. |
you're blue-tinted spectacles are bolted firmly on, so logic isn't going to get through!
the jist of my argument is i'd rather have someone like burley in 1995 (an up-an-coming forward -thinking coach) rather than a 64-year old, who's not had a job in football for a decade (unless you count the limassol debacle) and hasn't been been a successful club manager for nearly 15.
the only manager anyone can think of who's had the best part of a decade off and come back as a success is kenny dalglish a decade ago and he was out of the game by choice rather than serial sackings.
we don't need to limit our pool of managers to those with a link to itfc. without that we'd never have had sir bobby. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:00 - Aug 7 with 3619 views | hype313 |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:59 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Mainly because that was Burley's principle period of success.
They might not have been having a half time fag, but I think we massively under-estimate how much the game has changed since then. There are very few bosses who were successful then and are still successful now, even fewer who came back after a long period out of the game. |
That's because most were in their late fourties/early fifties so have long since retired. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:01 - Aug 7 with 3616 views | Libero |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:51 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Like I say, I'm not wholly opposed to the idea. I just don't think it would be without its risks and there are reasons why managers don't tend to disappear for a decade then pop up again and make a great success of things. |
I understand your point of view, but you've got to look at where we are as a club currently.
We're really struggling and have spent the best part of half a decade (some would argue, more) straying further and further from the ideals of the likes of SAF, SBR, GB that have made Ipswich Town the club we love and brought us so many fabulous memories.
We have limited resources and more and more restrictions on how we can use these resources, the jewel in our crown and saving grace is the Academy, which despite modern trends still manages to produce a good number of players of first team quality.
We need a man who knows this club from top to bottom, who can utilise the little we do have and understands what it means to the local area, was here in better times and as such holds the players/staff/club to higher standards.
I want our Ipswich back, there's a great opportunity for Burley to come in, reinstall our values/philosophy and steady the ship while simultaneously preparing for succession with Dyer.
Another appointment like Hurst or Lambert would absolutely kill us, someone said earlier how shocking it is that we're as close to the Conference as we are the Premier League.
Something needs to change drastically and in my opinion it needs to be a man who bleeds blue and white to do it. | | | |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:03 - Aug 7 with 3612 views | positivity |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:00 - Aug 7 by hadleighboyblue |
Burley with some good coaches in sounds a lot better than the current set up . Still think any manager needs a good assistant / coach . Not sure we have anyone here now that can pull things together , sad to say ITFC have become a mess on and off the field . We have no plan or strategy .
Can't believe we have the same manager and coach as last season after such an underachievement . |
one positive of the salary cap is that we *should* (if i understand the rules correctly) have more money for things outside the player wages.
in my view this means that we should invest heavily in the academy, coaching, analysis, sports science etc etc and it also means we should have some spare cash to pay off lambert (even with the daft 5 year contract) | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:03 - Aug 7 with 3611 views | hype313 |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:01 - Aug 7 by Libero |
I understand your point of view, but you've got to look at where we are as a club currently.
We're really struggling and have spent the best part of half a decade (some would argue, more) straying further and further from the ideals of the likes of SAF, SBR, GB that have made Ipswich Town the club we love and brought us so many fabulous memories.
We have limited resources and more and more restrictions on how we can use these resources, the jewel in our crown and saving grace is the Academy, which despite modern trends still manages to produce a good number of players of first team quality.
We need a man who knows this club from top to bottom, who can utilise the little we do have and understands what it means to the local area, was here in better times and as such holds the players/staff/club to higher standards.
I want our Ipswich back, there's a great opportunity for Burley to come in, reinstall our values/philosophy and steady the ship while simultaneously preparing for succession with Dyer.
Another appointment like Hurst or Lambert would absolutely kill us, someone said earlier how shocking it is that we're as close to the Conference as we are the Premier League.
Something needs to change drastically and in my opinion it needs to be a man who bleeds blue and white to do it. |
https://giphy.com/gifs/YRuFixSNWFVcXaxpmX/html5 | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:08 - Aug 7 with 3596 views | jayessess |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:00 - Aug 7 by hype313 |
That's because most were in their late fourties/early fifties so have long since retired. |
Quite a lot of Burley's Premier League peers from 2001-02 are still of working age for a manager. Curbishley, McClaren, Hoddle, Allardyce, Reid, Robson, Strachan, O'Leary, Moyes, Ranieri, Wenger, Souness... | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:10 - Aug 7 with 3593 views | jayessess |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:01 - Aug 7 by Libero |
I understand your point of view, but you've got to look at where we are as a club currently.
We're really struggling and have spent the best part of half a decade (some would argue, more) straying further and further from the ideals of the likes of SAF, SBR, GB that have made Ipswich Town the club we love and brought us so many fabulous memories.
We have limited resources and more and more restrictions on how we can use these resources, the jewel in our crown and saving grace is the Academy, which despite modern trends still manages to produce a good number of players of first team quality.
We need a man who knows this club from top to bottom, who can utilise the little we do have and understands what it means to the local area, was here in better times and as such holds the players/staff/club to higher standards.
I want our Ipswich back, there's a great opportunity for Burley to come in, reinstall our values/philosophy and steady the ship while simultaneously preparing for succession with Dyer.
Another appointment like Hurst or Lambert would absolutely kill us, someone said earlier how shocking it is that we're as close to the Conference as we are the Premier League.
Something needs to change drastically and in my opinion it needs to be a man who bleeds blue and white to do it. |
The enthusiasm here is one of the reason's I wouldn't be wholly against it. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:27 - Aug 7 with 3559 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:59 - Aug 7 by jayessess |
Mainly because that was Burley's principle period of success.
They might not have been having a half time fag, but I think we massively under-estimate how much the game has changed since then. There are very few bosses who were successful then and are still successful now, even fewer who came back after a long period out of the game. |
Well firstly, he didn't suddenly forget how to coach in 2001. And if the game has changed so much since Burley was in it, can you list in what ways? | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:35 - Aug 7 with 3548 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:00 - Aug 7 by positivity |
you're blue-tinted spectacles are bolted firmly on, so logic isn't going to get through!
the jist of my argument is i'd rather have someone like burley in 1995 (an up-an-coming forward -thinking coach) rather than a 64-year old, who's not had a job in football for a decade (unless you count the limassol debacle) and hasn't been been a successful club manager for nearly 15.
the only manager anyone can think of who's had the best part of a decade off and come back as a success is kenny dalglish a decade ago and he was out of the game by choice rather than serial sackings.
we don't need to limit our pool of managers to those with a link to itfc. without that we'd never have had sir bobby. |
I've dispelled every bit of your 'logic.' So has Libbers. Unless you can answer with specifics. It has nothing to do with your patronising 'blue-tinted specs.' Having someone who bleeds blue and white is a legitimate tactic. We've tried everything else.
I've also suggested Dyer alongside anyway. So if there really is stuff Burley's out of touch with in 9 years, Dyer can fill him in.
What do you think is working currently regarding ITFC? Who is the current Burley '95 manager you'd recommend? | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:40 - Aug 7 with 3537 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:01 - Aug 7 by Libero |
I understand your point of view, but you've got to look at where we are as a club currently.
We're really struggling and have spent the best part of half a decade (some would argue, more) straying further and further from the ideals of the likes of SAF, SBR, GB that have made Ipswich Town the club we love and brought us so many fabulous memories.
We have limited resources and more and more restrictions on how we can use these resources, the jewel in our crown and saving grace is the Academy, which despite modern trends still manages to produce a good number of players of first team quality.
We need a man who knows this club from top to bottom, who can utilise the little we do have and understands what it means to the local area, was here in better times and as such holds the players/staff/club to higher standards.
I want our Ipswich back, there's a great opportunity for Burley to come in, reinstall our values/philosophy and steady the ship while simultaneously preparing for succession with Dyer.
Another appointment like Hurst or Lambert would absolutely kill us, someone said earlier how shocking it is that we're as close to the Conference as we are the Premier League.
Something needs to change drastically and in my opinion it needs to be a man who bleeds blue and white to do it. |
Spot on. We've tried everything else and have little left to lose.
It would be the most popular thing Evans has done since he's been here, as well. | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:48 - Aug 7 with 3527 views | positivity |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:35 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue |
I've dispelled every bit of your 'logic.' So has Libbers. Unless you can answer with specifics. It has nothing to do with your patronising 'blue-tinted specs.' Having someone who bleeds blue and white is a legitimate tactic. We've tried everything else.
I've also suggested Dyer alongside anyway. So if there really is stuff Burley's out of touch with in 9 years, Dyer can fill him in.
What do you think is working currently regarding ITFC? Who is the current Burley '95 manager you'd recommend? |
i answered all your questions yet you've not answered a single one of the questions against burley!
who has come back after 10 years and serial sackings and been a success?
how will he deal with the current squad, when there is no money to bring in his own players?
how will he deal with a chairman who won't back him to the hilt?
why has no club signed him in the past 10 years? if he's that good a coach, there must be something else stopping the queues of chairman beating down his door, what is it?
we've tried the bleeding-blue tactic (magic) and it didn't work (he did better than most, but he was no bfj let alone sbr!) | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:54 - Aug 7 with 3527 views | itfcjoe |
A lot of words in this thread, that I can't be bothered to read.
But I agree with anyone praising Burley and disagree with anyone not. |  |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:56 - Aug 7 with 3513 views | jayessess |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 16:27 - Aug 7 by BrixtonBlue |
Well firstly, he didn't suddenly forget how to coach in 2001. And if the game has changed so much since Burley was in it, can you list in what ways? |
As I've said - I think the main change is in the physicality. You might add a few other things to that (how data is used, how tactics develop over time, I suspect coaching's more technical now too).
But I think it's a question you could probably turn round. If football is just football and never changes, why do so many coaches look increasingly out of their depth as they get older? | |
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| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 17:09 - Aug 7 with 3497 views | BloomBlue |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 15:08 - Aug 7 by Coco |
Reeeeeeeeaaaalllyyyyyyy? |
Yes really
I'm with Sir Bob on this never go back to the same club and manage
The fact is Burley failed at the end because he believed in his own hype, even if you ignore the relegation we were going backwards in the league below.
All managers have a sell by date and to think Burley can come back and do what he did then I don't agree with, as I said we were going backwards that season after relegation if he was that good as a coach why? Because he had reached his sell by date
If he was still managing another club I would agree there could be a chance but he hasn't managed for years and there is a reason for that. |  | | |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 17:25 - Aug 7 with 3480 views | Shawsey |
| Now, if we had a man like George Burley in charge I could see a way out of this. on 17:09 - Aug 7 by BloomBlue |
Yes really
I'm with Sir Bob on this never go back to the same club and manage
The fact is Burley failed at the end because he believed in his own hype, even if you ignore the relegation we were going backwards in the league below.
All managers have a sell by date and to think Burley can come back and do what he did then I don't agree with, as I said we were going backwards that season after relegation if he was that good as a coach why? Because he had reached his sell by date
If he was still managing another club I would agree there could be a chance but he hasn't managed for years and there is a reason for that. |
Agree. Not saying he couldn't do a better job than Lambert, just never go back. He would be judged by his previous time here, which wouldn't be fair on him anyway, as times have changed here. I wouldn't say no to him and Dyer, but unfortunately we are stuck with Lambert for the foreseeable anyway. |  | | |
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