| Grizzle bloke 15:39 - Aug 8 with 34985 views | bluelagos |
So - If - as reported France ends up on the list of quarantine countries and off the FCO list of places to go to....what are the implications for travel?
Can you still travel - but at your own risk?
Presume UK travel insurances wouldn't cover any claims?
Would the EU health card thing (for emergency treatment) still cover you?
Would car/motorbike insurance be valid?
14 days q. on arrival back home if fairly self explanatory.
Have a trip booked where we are transiting France only*...so not worried about the CV risk itself as are flexible and can easily avoid areas with high outbreaks.
(*If we headed to Belgium - it could literally be for 30 minutes... - if Belgium were not also on the list too)
**I fully accept 99% if people wouldn't consider this. Which is fine - good luck to you. Don't need a lecture, just wanting to understand the implications so we can make an informed decision on what is the best thing to do.
|  |
| |  |
| Grizzle bloke on 13:59 - Aug 10 with 7289 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Grizzle bloke on 13:50 - Aug 10 by Pinewoodblue |
Rommy if you didn’t eSpect a full scale lockdown you were on @ different planet to the rest of us. The decision to go ahead was scandalous, no doubt influenced by the fact the woman currently in charge and test and trace was on the committee that made the decision it was safe to go ahead with Cheltenham. Another case of personal interest defeating common sense. |
At the time, when it was up in the air about being on or off, there was no talk of football being postponed. Liverpool v Atletico at Anfield was on in my hotel on the Wednesday night and there was never really any suggestion of it being cancelled. Whereas the racing was under threat in the days before it got confirmed. So they offered to compromise by putting over a 100 sanitisers around the place. Plus it’s outdoors which I imagine they thought would help (it’s a tight squeeze in some parts though which is an obvious problem).
Whilst in hindsight, maybe it should have been cancelled, there’s always a lot of criticism that it was on but other sports continued that week too. Which surely proves my point about the rules and regulations that were in place at the time?
As I said though, I’ve no agenda. It happened, I went and it can’t be changed. I do think it an interesting discussion though and links very well with holidays abroad and the risks attached. I have to go now but I’ll keep an eye on the thread later tonight. Still haven’t got round to reading the two other threads that Libby linked in which may change my mind. All I was saying really here was that the rules are completely pointless if the perception is that going abroad should be criticised. |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:02 - Aug 10 with 7279 views | LankHenners |
| Grizzle bloke on 13:40 - Aug 10 by bluelagos |
Rommy,
Am pretty much with you. I think the decision to allow Cheltenham to go ahead was scandalous. I think everyone who went put their and their contacts lives at risk. I dont blame anyone who went because they were following govt advice.
The idea that as individuals we would be better informed than our leading govt scientists is rather silly. We trust our govt to make the right call and then play within those rules.
Which brings us to today. The govt has opened pubs, restuarants, encouraged us to return to work, to use public transport etc. Some of us would like a holiday too.
If the benefits of socialising, holidaying etc. in terms of our well being out weigh the risks (and there are some) then I have no issue with anybody doing anything within the rules. The rules, by now, are based on a whole load of scientific knowledge and hopefully are more appropriate than the poor decision making / advice that was givein in March.
I feel some people wish to elimate all risks. That's not practical or indeed possible. We all have different attitudes to risk and some are way more cautious than others. That said, some people are way more aware of the dangers too, maybe personally impacted...
But the bottom line for me is that the govt should make the rules, we should abide by them and people unhappy with that, should direct their anger at the rule makers. |
Not a dig at you specifically but this line of argument just comes across as people trying to justify their own actions/something they want to do.
Yes, the messaging and general handling from the government has been a shambles since the start. However, the argument you're bringing ties itself in a knot around the central paradoxical issue that the government has got the rules wrong but as the rules are what they are I should be allowed to do xyz with no pushback.
I'm sure lots of people will say they're being sensible and will take every precaution etc., but the truth of the matter is that not everyone is going to be doing so, and what we do know of the virus is that it's very easy to pick it up without knowing you've done anything to get it.
What makes the issue uncomfortable for me (and I very much appreciate the effect of being stuck at home on people's mental well-being) is that you have people unable to see dying relatives in hospital, being unable to hold a funeral properly, high-risk people not being able to go anywhere at all etc. and then people going 'fck it I'm off to Spain' at the first opportunity.
I appreciate that's pitting two ends of the scale against each other but, to go back to the original point, it doesn't really sit right that people are going 'well it's the government's fault' to wash themselves clean of any responsibility and then getting a bit uppity when people question some of their actions. |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:03 - Aug 10 with 7275 views | bluelagos |
| Grizzle bloke on 13:59 - Aug 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
At the time, when it was up in the air about being on or off, there was no talk of football being postponed. Liverpool v Atletico at Anfield was on in my hotel on the Wednesday night and there was never really any suggestion of it being cancelled. Whereas the racing was under threat in the days before it got confirmed. So they offered to compromise by putting over a 100 sanitisers around the place. Plus it’s outdoors which I imagine they thought would help (it’s a tight squeeze in some parts though which is an obvious problem).
Whilst in hindsight, maybe it should have been cancelled, there’s always a lot of criticism that it was on but other sports continued that week too. Which surely proves my point about the rules and regulations that were in place at the time?
As I said though, I’ve no agenda. It happened, I went and it can’t be changed. I do think it an interesting discussion though and links very well with holidays abroad and the risks attached. I have to go now but I’ll keep an eye on the thread later tonight. Still haven’t got round to reading the two other threads that Libby linked in which may change my mind. All I was saying really here was that the rules are completely pointless if the perception is that going abroad should be criticised. |
Your memory is a tad different. There were dissenting voices regarding both Cheltenham and the LFC v atletico match. But I accept they were very much in the minority at the time. | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:06 - Aug 10 with 7263 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:02 - Aug 10 by LankHenners |
Not a dig at you specifically but this line of argument just comes across as people trying to justify their own actions/something they want to do.
Yes, the messaging and general handling from the government has been a shambles since the start. However, the argument you're bringing ties itself in a knot around the central paradoxical issue that the government has got the rules wrong but as the rules are what they are I should be allowed to do xyz with no pushback.
I'm sure lots of people will say they're being sensible and will take every precaution etc., but the truth of the matter is that not everyone is going to be doing so, and what we do know of the virus is that it's very easy to pick it up without knowing you've done anything to get it.
What makes the issue uncomfortable for me (and I very much appreciate the effect of being stuck at home on people's mental well-being) is that you have people unable to see dying relatives in hospital, being unable to hold a funeral properly, high-risk people not being able to go anywhere at all etc. and then people going 'fck it I'm off to Spain' at the first opportunity.
I appreciate that's pitting two ends of the scale against each other but, to go back to the original point, it doesn't really sit right that people are going 'well it's the government's fault' to wash themselves clean of any responsibility and then getting a bit uppity when people question some of their actions. |
If people aren’t taking those precautions, they should be criticised. Like the idiots refusing to wear masks on the tube. Fine them ffs.
But should normal people who are taking precautions be criticised for acting under the guidelines? It’s definitely an interesting topic anyway. | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:23 - Aug 10 with 7220 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 13:55 - Aug 10 by Funge |
Firstly, sorry to hear about your ailment - sounds extremely unpleasant, and I hope that you recover (much) sooner rather than later.
'We all have a personal responsibility to do the right thing and keep our social circles and movements as small and predictable as possible'
I am in broad agreement with your sentiments here, and in full agreement with the first half of this paragraph. However, the whole issue is subjective, and many people will take the view that it is more important to resurrect the economy, than to perpetuate the continuing lockdown.
People have had a savage, savage few months. Loved ones have died and livelihoods lost; and this before we even consider the secondary issues such, as the sea-change in social interaction with one another. One can (and should) point many fingers at this government's handling of the crisis, spearheaded by the arrogance of Cummings (that man is set up for an almighty fall; he thinks he's far cleverer than he is... I digress)….
People are desperate to return to normality, or something approaching this. It was suggested that the BLM protests would result in a spike - they didn't. It was suggested that the crowded Bournemouth beaches would result in a spike - they didn't. Fundamentally, and to the chagrin of the media, a significant majority of people have adapted to the new way of life with courtesy and respect for one another.
So what am I trying to say here? This leads onto the second part of your paragraph above - regardless of activity, I genuinely do think that most people are acting sensibly. Pretty much everyone masks up in shops, pretty much everyone is hand sanitising several times a day, pretty much everyone is respecting other's personal space - yep, you've got Toby Young's crowd who view the failure to wear a mask as some kind of badge of honour, but, to be frank, that's in keeping with the calibre of these people - inherently selfish....
My view now, however, is that we need to start focussing upon an economic path out of this mess. Get out, support the hospitality sector, support the travel sector, support the aviation sector. (The High St retail sector, sadly, may be finished; COVID being the final nail in that particular coffin)…
However, it's a fully subjective view. Had I experienced what you have. I daresay my view would be different.
Fully happy to have this post analysed and pulled apart, if required.... |
Hey Funge, appreciate you writing me that lengthy and detailed response. I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about increased socialisation not leading to greater spikes, I'd say from the data I've viewed there has undeniably been correlations in people spending more time together in close proximity and the amount of cases we've seen.
Appreciate you're clearly coming from an economic angle, but I work in social care, my wife in local government and we have family who work in the NHS. I've witnessed first hand the dishonesty of the government, their putting of profit over people and the ramifications for both customers and workforce.
I've been in various meetings over the last two months since my service reopened where we've had to pick apart the government guidelines to understand what it is exactly what they're asking us for, it's all purposefully written in an ambiguous manner, the level of dis-ingenuousness from these people is off the chart.
I understand people saying "well the government say it's okay" as they are assuming that the government are following the advice of the Scientific and medical professionals, all I am doing is highlighting that they are not doing this.
In a lot of cases the measures being taken don't go much beyond your basic infection control measures that should have already been in place in the majority of work places. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 14:26]
|  | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:26 - Aug 10 with 7210 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 13:59 - Aug 10 by The_Romford_Blue |
At the time, when it was up in the air about being on or off, there was no talk of football being postponed. Liverpool v Atletico at Anfield was on in my hotel on the Wednesday night and there was never really any suggestion of it being cancelled. Whereas the racing was under threat in the days before it got confirmed. So they offered to compromise by putting over a 100 sanitisers around the place. Plus it’s outdoors which I imagine they thought would help (it’s a tight squeeze in some parts though which is an obvious problem).
Whilst in hindsight, maybe it should have been cancelled, there’s always a lot of criticism that it was on but other sports continued that week too. Which surely proves my point about the rules and regulations that were in place at the time?
As I said though, I’ve no agenda. It happened, I went and it can’t be changed. I do think it an interesting discussion though and links very well with holidays abroad and the risks attached. I have to go now but I’ll keep an eye on the thread later tonight. Still haven’t got round to reading the two other threads that Libby linked in which may change my mind. All I was saying really here was that the rules are completely pointless if the perception is that going abroad should be criticised. |
As others have said, you're living an alternative time line, Rommers. | | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:37 - Aug 10 with 7194 views | Funge |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:23 - Aug 10 by Libero |
Hey Funge, appreciate you writing me that lengthy and detailed response. I'm not sure I agree with your assertion about increased socialisation not leading to greater spikes, I'd say from the data I've viewed there has undeniably been correlations in people spending more time together in close proximity and the amount of cases we've seen.
Appreciate you're clearly coming from an economic angle, but I work in social care, my wife in local government and we have family who work in the NHS. I've witnessed first hand the dishonesty of the government, their putting of profit over people and the ramifications for both customers and workforce.
I've been in various meetings over the last two months since my service reopened where we've had to pick apart the government guidelines to understand what it is exactly what they're asking us for, it's all purposefully written in an ambiguous manner, the level of dis-ingenuousness from these people is off the chart.
I understand people saying "well the government say it's okay" as they are assuming that the government are following the advice of the Scientific and medical professionals, all I am doing is highlighting that they are not doing this.
In a lot of cases the measures being taken don't go much beyond your basic infection control measures that should have already been in place in the majority of work places. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 14:26]
|
I do fully appreciate that point of view, and I'm well aware that the Public sector (as always) have the thankless task of being asked to guide the way forwards, with little support from central government, as you outline below.
Furthermore, said sector inherit full culpability if and when mistakes are made - for example, the quandary that head teachers find themselves in at present is pretty fcking disgraceful, really....
Peace. |  | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:45 - Aug 10 with 7164 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:37 - Aug 10 by Funge |
I do fully appreciate that point of view, and I'm well aware that the Public sector (as always) have the thankless task of being asked to guide the way forwards, with little support from central government, as you outline below.
Furthermore, said sector inherit full culpability if and when mistakes are made - for example, the quandary that head teachers find themselves in at present is pretty fcking disgraceful, really....
Peace. |
It's cool we can find common ground.
Honestly Funge, while I agree that we can't have the economy grinding to a halt I think serious errors have been made both in the closing down and re-opening of services. (including but not limited to the travel & tourism industry)
Think about Chris Wittie's comments just a week or so ago, where he stated that we've reached the optimum levels of re-opening already! It took next to no time to reach that point, zero care was taken in reality. it's been a little over a month and we're told that this is it.
No real planning or consideration, a whole lot of covering their own arse with linguistic gymnastics and ensuring that businesses are taking basic infection control measures. Oh, and in the middle of that they decided it's probably best if we all wore masks indoors...
There will be a backtrack, it's just about when and why. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Grizzle bloke on 14:48 - Aug 10 with 7157 views | Mullet |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:37 - Aug 10 by Funge |
I do fully appreciate that point of view, and I'm well aware that the Public sector (as always) have the thankless task of being asked to guide the way forwards, with little support from central government, as you outline below.
Furthermore, said sector inherit full culpability if and when mistakes are made - for example, the quandary that head teachers find themselves in at present is pretty fcking disgraceful, really....
Peace. |
Further to this, people may have noticed that as well "look immigrants!" has been the dog whistle of choice this week there has been a creeping accumulation of "kids don't spread COVID" stories with lashings of "left wing teacher unions" thrown in.
The study they're citing can't possibly have been peer-reviewed let alone tested and as far as I know only the "findings" have been released not the study itself.
The "you might have to give up the pub to get schools" stuff is astounding frankly. But there is no doubt that if lockdown measures come into force or increase or there is any blame to be apportioned, once again the government are laying the foundations for it to be everyone else but them.
The constant refusal to make safe over talking about safety is very frustrating. All while they flout and ignore their own rules.
As a side note to this thread, a mate of mine went to Cheltenham and got COVID from it he says. I'm not sure why people would argue that massive events and crowds aren't a cause in the spread or should be looked at if there is a risk this virus is coming back with a vengeance. |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 21:12 - Aug 10 with 7039 views | 26_Paz |
Karen Brady? Karen Pickering? Karen Keating? |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 21:14 - Aug 10 with 7037 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Grizzle bloke on 21:12 - Aug 10 by 26_Paz |
Karen Brady? Karen Pickering? Karen Keating? |
I believe Karen is a slang term used by younger folks these days to describe somebody as entitled. |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 23:21 - Aug 10 with 7005 views | StokieBlue |
| Grizzle bloke on 14:23 - Aug 9 by 26_Paz |
He’s flying from somewhere with practically no corona to somewhere with practically no corona, minimal risk, no dramas here |
Greece has just formally declared that they are now in a second wave and their R value is now above one. They recorded their highest ever number of infections on Sunday.
SB |  | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 06:29 - Aug 11 with 6959 views | 26_Paz |
| Grizzle bloke on 23:21 - Aug 10 by StokieBlue |
Greece has just formally declared that they are now in a second wave and their R value is now above one. They recorded their highest ever number of infections on Sunday.
SB |
This record number of infections was just over 200, in the whole country. They’ve had less than 6,000 infections in total, far from a second wave, I don’t think you can even say they had a first wave ... | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 06:44 - Aug 11 with 6952 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Grizzle bloke on 23:21 - Aug 10 by StokieBlue |
Greece has just formally declared that they are now in a second wave and their R value is now above one. They recorded their highest ever number of infections on Sunday.
SB |
I’m going to Rhodes. Not mainland Greece.
Yesterday the UK reported 815 new infections whereas Guernsey reported zero. | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 07:19 - Aug 11 with 6936 views | 26_Paz |
| Grizzle bloke on 06:44 - Aug 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m going to Rhodes. Not mainland Greece.
Yesterday the UK reported 815 new infections whereas Guernsey reported zero. |
Looking at Greece as a whole they have excellent corona management. They’ve recently brought in a rule that anyone coming in from Spain, Sweden or Belgium (I think) has to provide a negative corona test. They shut all bars at midnight. They’re taking proactive steps to keep their rates low, which means they get some kind of tourist season, which protects hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of their citizens from financial ruin ... | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 08:21 - Aug 11 with 6912 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 07:19 - Aug 11 by 26_Paz |
Looking at Greece as a whole they have excellent corona management. They’ve recently brought in a rule that anyone coming in from Spain, Sweden or Belgium (I think) has to provide a negative corona test. They shut all bars at midnight. They’re taking proactive steps to keep their rates low, which means they get some kind of tourist season, which protects hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of their citizens from financial ruin ... |
I don't know how many times you have to be told, but those tests are only good for the day that they're issued, they also don't allow for the fact someone could be incubating the virus. | | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 09:02 - Aug 11 with 6881 views | 26_Paz |
| Grizzle bloke on 08:21 - Aug 11 by Libero |
I don't know how many times you have to be told, but those tests are only good for the day that they're issued, they also don't allow for the fact someone could be incubating the virus. |
So you’d rather see all of these people lose their jobs and be plunged into poverty than accept a less than normal tourist season with minimised risks of transmission? | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 09:03 - Aug 11 with 6881 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 09:02 - Aug 11 by 26_Paz |
So you’d rather see all of these people lose their jobs and be plunged into poverty than accept a less than normal tourist season with minimised risks of transmission? |
That's quite a leap. | | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 10:39 - Aug 11 with 6744 views | 26_Paz |
| Grizzle bloke on 09:03 - Aug 11 by Libero |
That's quite a leap. |
That’s the consequences of what you are advocating (no international travel into next year)
More posts have disappeared btw ... something weird going on! Lol | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 10:43 - Aug 11 with 6730 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 10:39 - Aug 11 by 26_Paz |
That’s the consequences of what you are advocating (no international travel into next year)
More posts have disappeared btw ... something weird going on! Lol |
Again, huge leap. | | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 10:44 - Aug 11 with 6724 views | J2BLUE |
| Grizzle bloke on 10:39 - Aug 11 by 26_Paz |
That’s the consequences of what you are advocating (no international travel into next year)
More posts have disappeared btw ... something weird going on! Lol |
No international travel would be fairly reasonable.
It's summer and we're an island nation. Virtually any holiday you might want is available in this country (e.g beach, city break etc, not visiting the Grand Canyon) |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:13 - Aug 11 with 6693 views | 26_Paz |
| Grizzle bloke on 10:43 - Aug 11 by Libero |
Again, huge leap. |
How is it a huge leap? These people’s livelihoods depends on tourism. No tourism = no income? | |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:16 - Aug 11 with 6685 views | Libero |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:13 - Aug 11 by 26_Paz |
How is it a huge leap? These people’s livelihoods depends on tourism. No tourism = no income? |
You've got to this point from me saying...
"I don't know how many times you have to be told, but those tests are only good for the day that they're issued, they also don't allow for the fact someone could be incubating the virus."
You're jumping around like Sonic the Hedgehog to try and defend your stance.
Don't bother, you don't have to justify your choices to me, do whatever you want [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 11:16]
| | | |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:17 - Aug 11 with 6680 views | hype313 |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:13 - Aug 11 by 26_Paz |
How is it a huge leap? These people’s livelihoods depends on tourism. No tourism = no income? |
Tourism - huge spike of infections - Lockdown. |  |
| |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:27 - Aug 11 with 6660 views | 26_Paz |
| Grizzle bloke on 11:16 - Aug 11 by Libero |
You've got to this point from me saying...
"I don't know how many times you have to be told, but those tests are only good for the day that they're issued, they also don't allow for the fact someone could be incubating the virus."
You're jumping around like Sonic the Hedgehog to try and defend your stance.
Don't bother, you don't have to justify your choices to me, do whatever you want [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 11:16]
|
You’ve indicated on multiple posts, I’m not sure whether it’s still on this post or not as a number of your posts keep disappearing, that you don’t think there should be any international travel whatsoever | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
