| Harry Wright stitched up by this 11:25 - Aug 9 with 4844 views | itfcjoe |
Despite being a year above Przybek, due to the timings of their birthdays, he counts as 2 years older and already as a senior player.
Przybek now has 2 more seasons as an U21 and not counting - things like that could be really big for young players careers |  |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:26 - Aug 9 with 4181 views | Herbivore |
I don't understand why the age cut off is in the middle of the season rather than at the start. |  |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:26 - Aug 9 with 4168 views | WD19 |
If either of them are good enough it won’t matter. |  | | |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:29 - Aug 9 with 4148 views | Horsham |
Likewise for the number of 21s this year McGAVIN, Morris, Folami, Dozzell...this season is completely sh!t or bust (even more than it was anyway). A major injury for any of them and it’s probably them done. |  | | |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:30 - Aug 9 with 4140 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:26 - Aug 9 by Herbivore |
I don't understand why the age cut off is in the middle of the season rather than at the start. |
Yep, it’s absolutely crazy - bearing in mind every other age categorisation in English football, from U6s up, is based on school years | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:31 - Aug 9 with 4118 views | Horsham |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:26 - Aug 9 by Herbivore |
I don't understand why the age cut off is in the middle of the season rather than at the start. |
I think the age cut off might be the part that is most vulnerable to a legal challenge. It’s discrimination surely. | | | |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:31 - Aug 9 with 4123 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:29 - Aug 9 by Horsham |
Likewise for the number of 21s this year McGAVIN, Morris, Folami, Dozzell...this season is completely sh!t or bust (even more than it was anyway). A major injury for any of them and it’s probably them done. |
It’s more so for those with birthdays between September and December - they’ve just lost a year overnight, and become less attractive to clubs | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:34 - Aug 9 with 4101 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:26 - Aug 9 by Herbivore |
I don't understand why the age cut off is in the middle of the season rather than at the start. |
Probably because that was considered an average and fairer on those whose birthdays are right before the start of the season. Although, of course it will always unfairly disadvantage someone. Isn't there a bias in general in winter sport towards those who are born in August/September or near then as they are generally older and more developed than those born in May or around then throughout the season (if that makes sense). |  |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:38 - Aug 9 with 4075 views | Horsham |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:31 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
It’s more so for those with birthdays between September and December - they’ve just lost a year overnight, and become less attractive to clubs |
Absolutely. Hypothetically had Woolfie been injured last season the club might have had to think about off loading this season as he takes up an over 21 spot. He’d have become a marginal call. | | | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:38 - Aug 9 with 4070 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:34 - Aug 9 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Probably because that was considered an average and fairer on those whose birthdays are right before the start of the season. Although, of course it will always unfairly disadvantage someone. Isn't there a bias in general in winter sport towards those who are born in August/September or near then as they are generally older and more developed than those born in May or around then throughout the season (if that makes sense). |
I know what you mean and it’s undoubtedly true, you can’t have a system where 99% of rules say one thing and another is different.
The age cut offs for U21 teams at this level in leasing.com, and for U23 and U18 are based in school years - just a massive oversight showing how rushed this is | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:47 - Aug 9 with 4003 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:38 - Aug 9 by Horsham |
Absolutely. Hypothetically had Woolfie been injured last season the club might have had to think about off loading this season as he takes up an over 21 spot. He’d have become a marginal call. |
I disagree. We have always seen the potential in talented young injured players and persevered with them. The argument is we hang on to too many of them (see Dozzell and Bishop for example). | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:10 - Aug 9 with 3783 views | trueblue1970 |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:31 - Aug 9 by Horsham |
I think the age cut off might be the part that is most vulnerable to a legal challenge. It’s discrimination surely. |
Agree I think you will find it will be age discrimination and will be challenged in the courts |  | | |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:21 - Aug 9 with 3730 views | JakeITFC |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:29 - Aug 9 by Horsham |
Likewise for the number of 21s this year McGAVIN, Morris, Folami, Dozzell...this season is completely sh!t or bust (even more than it was anyway). A major injury for any of them and it’s probably them done. |
There really doesn’t seem to be much value in holding players in that 21 and over category now who aren’t fully fledged first team players. |  | | |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:33 - Aug 9 with 3668 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:21 - Aug 9 by JakeITFC |
There really doesn’t seem to be much value in holding players in that 21 and over category now who aren’t fully fledged first team players. |
You can be in a position where you have 4 or 5 first team regulars that are under 21 so frees space so it works that way
This whole thing is just an attack on the big clubs in reality, those who have to run an U23 team by virtue of their academy status | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:35 - Aug 9 with 3659 views | Horsham |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:21 - Aug 9 by JakeITFC |
There really doesn’t seem to be much value in holding players in that 21 and over category now who aren’t fully fledged first team players. |
But the decision shouldn’t be an arbitrary one determined by age given players development isn’t uniform over time. | | | |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:37 - Aug 9 with 3643 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 13:35 - Aug 9 by Horsham |
But the decision shouldn’t be an arbitrary one determined by age given players development isn’t uniform over time. |
It is like this in the PL and Europe currently so must be legal in the EU | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:05 - Aug 9 with 3533 views | Darth_Koont |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:31 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
It’s more so for those with birthdays between September and December - they’ve just lost a year overnight, and become less attractive to clubs |
Although that does reverse the year by year advantage they've had from being the oldest in their year group.
They did a study a while back re: Canadian ice hockey players that base age groups from 1st January. There was a massive overrepresentation in the NHL of players born in the first quarter, and by the time you got to September and beyond there were fewer players but also more likely to be standout players in order to have kept up.
Football is slightly less reliant on power and strength but still.
And I'm not at all bitter as someone who played rugby, was born right at the end of the school year and who had a later growth spurt as well! ... I coulda been a contender ... (No,I couldn't) |  |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:13 - Aug 9 with 3488 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:05 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
Although that does reverse the year by year advantage they've had from being the oldest in their year group.
They did a study a while back re: Canadian ice hockey players that base age groups from 1st January. There was a massive overrepresentation in the NHL of players born in the first quarter, and by the time you got to September and beyond there were fewer players but also more likely to be standout players in order to have kept up.
Football is slightly less reliant on power and strength but still.
And I'm not at all bitter as someone who played rugby, was born right at the end of the school year and who had a later growth spurt as well! ... I coulda been a contender ... (No,I couldn't) |
Football isn’t as bad for that as other sports, but is still a big factor - but it doesn’t so much as reverse it but just massively disadvantage people at a time when those factors are no longer prevalent. | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:13 - Aug 9 with 3482 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:16 - Aug 9 with 3465 views | Darth_Koont |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:13 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
Football isn’t as bad for that as other sports, but is still a big factor - but it doesn’t so much as reverse it but just massively disadvantage people at a time when those factors are no longer prevalent. |
Sure but these players are helped to get where they are in the first place because of it.
The cut-off date is always going to disadvantage some players. Continuing the trend of rewarding players born at the start of the season seems the least equitable route. | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:21 - Aug 9 with 3437 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:16 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
Sure but these players are helped to get where they are in the first place because of it.
The cut-off date is always going to disadvantage some players. Continuing the trend of rewarding players born at the start of the season seems the least equitable route. |
I can’t see that arbitrarily taking away That advantage is in anyway right though, they effectively lose a year at a key stage of their career | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:29 - Aug 9 with 3400 views | Darth_Koont |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:21 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
I can’t see that arbitrarily taking away That advantage is in anyway right though, they effectively lose a year at a key stage of their career |
That's the same for whoever's on the wrong side of the line. | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:35 - Aug 9 with 3363 views | itfcjoe |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:29 - Aug 9 by Darth_Koont |
That's the same for whoever's on the wrong side of the line. |
It’s not though if the line is fixed from the age of 6, it’s like changing the school years in year 10 so the older kids have to sit their GCSEs a year earlier than their peers.
I don’t disagree that kids get disadvantaged, but at the age it is now changing here it just literally steals a years development from people | |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:41 - Aug 9 with 3342 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 11:26 - Aug 9 by WD19 |
If either of them are good enough it won’t matter. |
Given that Norris was ahead of them both last season and we've even looked at Bolton's goalkeeper as our number 2 i'd say PR Paul doesn't rate either very much. |  |
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:46 - Aug 9 with 3328 views | Darth_Koont |
| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:35 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
It’s not though if the line is fixed from the age of 6, it’s like changing the school years in year 10 so the older kids have to sit their GCSEs a year earlier than their peers.
I don’t disagree that kids get disadvantaged, but at the age it is now changing here it just literally steals a years development from people |
But these are adult pros by now. The age group isn't an issue as there are no U19, U20 or u21 teams to fill. It's a 5-year space from U18 to U23 and even the U23 measure is pretty meaningless.
And if you're over 21 and not seen as first-team squad material you're gone anyway.
I think the wage cap falls down in several areas (sustainable and enforced spending limits like the 60% revenue figure seems by far the most reasonable approach) but the cut-off point for u21 players is always going to be unfair to someone and benefit others. So I have no problem if there's a deviation from the traditional age-group imbalance.
Edit: And doesn't it give the group as a whole an extra 4-5 months to earn a senior contract? Plus increase the number of players outside the wage cap? [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 14:52]
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| Harry Wright stitched up by this on 14:53 - Aug 9 with 3298 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Dozzell is an interesting one. He’s over 21 in the last year of his contract. Unless we go up, he’ll never sign a new contract here and any hope of him signing one now before the new season must be gone.
So the club has an option of keeping him now and playing him - potentially he has a great season, we miss out on promotion and he is then snapped up for free by a Championship club capable of offering him more than a few grand a week. Either way, if we don’t go up he’s off on a free in the Summer.
So what does that make him worth to us now. Would be tempted to flog him (and others) now for a few hundred grand.
Edit - sounds like there’s a rule to deem a renewed contract for somebody under 24 to be treated at the average wage level. That’s good [Post edited 9 Aug 2020 15:34]
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