| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 21:23 - Aug 29 with 1787 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 21:08 - Aug 29 by tractordownsouth |
Really don't see how people can defend this. They assumed that a customer held particular views solely due to them being Jewish and refused to serve them as a result - it's antisemitic discrimination.
As for those saying antisemitism and antizionism are different - they aren't. Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland, which led to the creation of Israel after the holocaust. By being antizionist (against a 2 state solution), you're denying Jewish people a right to self determination.
It took me a while to understand this and learn about the historical context myself, but there's really no logical way to defend these actions. The Union itself has now called their actions antisemitic. |
I am not sure anyone is defending it.
I think some are pointing out that the article itself points out it is an individual and is being dealt with. There is a lot of discrimination in the rental sector and dealing with it where it is not explicit is very difficult.
If there was any suggestion the individual was not being dealt with it would be disgraceful. |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 23:32 - Aug 29 with 1738 views | bournemouthblue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 12:26 - Aug 29 by Ewan_Oozami |
Only because the media would make it "read as Starbucks discriminating", and most likely because there would be an underlying agenda (which there nearly always is) - you can bet that if a Starbucks employee saved someone's life with CPR in one of their establishments because of training supplied by Starbucks, it wouldn't be the company getting the credit in the media, it would be the employee themselves....don't think this letting agency has as big a media profile as Starbucks so it's a moot point anyway I'd say.. |
Starbucks shouldn't be blamed for the actions of one employee and it would be the first rebuttle from their HR team certainly
I don't think they'd be in too much danger of being chastised if at all for that for too long if they acted quickly
They are certainly likely to get a lot more attention for their tax arrangements in comparison to the UK based Costa for example who pay significantly more tax than their biggest rival which is certainly a moral issue
Is the political will really there to deal with that in itself, that's another issue which needs addressing |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:03 - Aug 30 with 1679 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 14:16 - Aug 29 by monytowbray |
This post made me more right wing. When will the left learn?! |
This is a perfect example of the continuing baiting and misrepresentation from you that I’m extremely fed up of.
What I said was “ when the left are seen to be in alignment with thugs and vandals, the centre will move more to the right”.
Not the far right. Not to fascists. More to the right where they believe they will be better protected. More to the right where they believe law and order will be respected.
Look, this can’t be healthy for you to be following somebody around on the internet, letting somebody occupy so much time in your daily thoughts. You’ve been asked to cut it out but you obviously have little to no respect for the people who have spoken to you.
I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you but it gets to a point where the constant lies and baiting become a pain in th arse.
Somebody made a very good point the other day. People on here act in a way that they wouldn’t in a real life, face to face situation.
When the crowds return to PR I’ll be very interested to put that to a test and to see if you have the stones to approach me and act the same irk as you do in here. Heck, I’ll even make it easier for you and introduce myself.
Personally I think you’ll get all tongue tied and piss your pants. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 8:24]
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:29 - Aug 30 with 1641 views | gordon |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:03 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
This is a perfect example of the continuing baiting and misrepresentation from you that I’m extremely fed up of.
What I said was “ when the left are seen to be in alignment with thugs and vandals, the centre will move more to the right”.
Not the far right. Not to fascists. More to the right where they believe they will be better protected. More to the right where they believe law and order will be respected.
Look, this can’t be healthy for you to be following somebody around on the internet, letting somebody occupy so much time in your daily thoughts. You’ve been asked to cut it out but you obviously have little to no respect for the people who have spoken to you.
I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you but it gets to a point where the constant lies and baiting become a pain in th arse.
Somebody made a very good point the other day. People on here act in a way that they wouldn’t in a real life, face to face situation.
When the crowds return to PR I’ll be very interested to put that to a test and to see if you have the stones to approach me and act the same irk as you do in here. Heck, I’ll even make it easier for you and introduce myself.
Personally I think you’ll get all tongue tied and piss your pants. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 8:24]
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You've made quite a lot of fairly tenuous attempts on here over the last few months to blame racism, violence against black people, right-wing populism, racism on something that you call 'the left,' which is such an amorphous concept in your head that it can be held responsible for pretty much anything you're not keen on.
Intellectually it's a car crash, and If you don't like that being pointed out to you, then the easiest solution would be to stop doing it. |  | | |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:41 - Aug 30 with 1639 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 21:08 - Aug 29 by tractordownsouth |
Really don't see how people can defend this. They assumed that a customer held particular views solely due to them being Jewish and refused to serve them as a result - it's antisemitic discrimination.
As for those saying antisemitism and antizionism are different - they aren't. Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland, which led to the creation of Israel after the holocaust. By being antizionist (against a 2 state solution), you're denying Jewish people a right to self determination.
It took me a while to understand this and learn about the historical context myself, but there's really no logical way to defend these actions. The Union itself has now called their actions antisemitic. |
Who assumed that there was discrimination solely due to being Jewish? Oh that's right, the article and the OP.
But even the slightest scratch under the surface shows that the original messages were via Instagram where it's perfectly possible to see who the person is and what they stand for. As I said earlier in the thread, it still seems unnecessary to reject the application on political grounds, but on its own it's not antisemitic.
And let's be brutally frank here. Your assertion that antisemitism and anti-Zionism are the same thing is way off and spoken like a true fundamentalist. If you knew your history then you'd know there is a long tradition of secular Jewish anti-Zionism — nowadays not to deny the human rights of Israelis to live in Israel and have a state but to deny the worst excesses of the settler movement and apartheid system.
A blanket equivalence puts you on the side of those who have taken Zionism so far that it justifies denigrating and oppressing Palestinians. Taken that far, it's the ethno-religious extremism of Islamist fundamentalists, Ku Klux Klanners, white supremacists in Europe etc.
So am I against the Zionism of Jews who want the right to live peacefully in Israel? Not at all. But I tend to be against the Zionism of those who would use it to support an apartheid regime and continued oppression of millions of others. |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:51 - Aug 30 with 1622 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:03 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
This is a perfect example of the continuing baiting and misrepresentation from you that I’m extremely fed up of.
What I said was “ when the left are seen to be in alignment with thugs and vandals, the centre will move more to the right”.
Not the far right. Not to fascists. More to the right where they believe they will be better protected. More to the right where they believe law and order will be respected.
Look, this can’t be healthy for you to be following somebody around on the internet, letting somebody occupy so much time in your daily thoughts. You’ve been asked to cut it out but you obviously have little to no respect for the people who have spoken to you.
I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you but it gets to a point where the constant lies and baiting become a pain in th arse.
Somebody made a very good point the other day. People on here act in a way that they wouldn’t in a real life, face to face situation.
When the crowds return to PR I’ll be very interested to put that to a test and to see if you have the stones to approach me and act the same irk as you do in here. Heck, I’ll even make it easier for you and introduce myself.
Personally I think you’ll get all tongue tied and piss your pants. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 8:24]
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And a perfect example of you pretending no-one can see that you've been actively pushing the Red Scare angle for years on here.
But here you are bemoaning constant lies, misrepresentation and baiting from others ... my oh my.
BTW I'd have no problem calling you out to your face. I'm guessing it's you that would stop pushing the same disingenuous nonsense as it only really survives in an online environment. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:52 - Aug 30 with 1618 views | lowhouseblue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 10:42 - Aug 29 by Darth_Koont |
Well, here it's specifically Zionists and also in regard to a specific individual so let's not get too carried away.
Despite what the hardliners want to push, antizionism does not equal antisemitism. It can do but certainly not on its own.
But even without knowing the details that seems a very unnecessary political response to someone whatever their political views might be. And it appears the person responsible has been expelled from the organisation. |
jeez you're actually trying to split hairs on this.
you say: "Well, here it's specifically Zionists and also in regard to a specific individual so let's not get too carried away."
lovely.
so where in the report does it say that the applicant was a zionist? it doesn't. it says the applicant was jewish:
"The union was aware that the applicant was Jewish since he uses his Hebrew name on his Instagram profile, and his Instagram profile image uses a Star of David and a #NoSafeSpaceForJewHate hashtag, according to the report."
it's only the racist who replied to the applicant who declared that the applicant is a zionist. which you now repeat. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:54 - Aug 30 with 1617 views | Superblue95 |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:03 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
This is a perfect example of the continuing baiting and misrepresentation from you that I’m extremely fed up of.
What I said was “ when the left are seen to be in alignment with thugs and vandals, the centre will move more to the right”.
Not the far right. Not to fascists. More to the right where they believe they will be better protected. More to the right where they believe law and order will be respected.
Look, this can’t be healthy for you to be following somebody around on the internet, letting somebody occupy so much time in your daily thoughts. You’ve been asked to cut it out but you obviously have little to no respect for the people who have spoken to you.
I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you but it gets to a point where the constant lies and baiting become a pain in th arse.
Somebody made a very good point the other day. People on here act in a way that they wouldn’t in a real life, face to face situation.
When the crowds return to PR I’ll be very interested to put that to a test and to see if you have the stones to approach me and act the same irk as you do in here. Heck, I’ll even make it easier for you and introduce myself.
Personally I think you’ll get all tongue tied and piss your pants. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 8:24]
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“I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you“
That clearly isn’t true, one comment and you post the rant of a madman. There’s an option to put posters on ignore you know? |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:08 - Aug 30 with 1577 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:52 - Aug 30 by lowhouseblue |
jeez you're actually trying to split hairs on this.
you say: "Well, here it's specifically Zionists and also in regard to a specific individual so let's not get too carried away."
lovely.
so where in the report does it say that the applicant was a zionist? it doesn't. it says the applicant was jewish:
"The union was aware that the applicant was Jewish since he uses his Hebrew name on his Instagram profile, and his Instagram profile image uses a Star of David and a #NoSafeSpaceForJewHate hashtag, according to the report."
it's only the racist who replied to the applicant who declared that the applicant is a zionist. which you now repeat. |
I'm not splitting hairs. I'm saying that there isn't any evidence here that it was down to this person's Jewishness. Indeed the rejection (however OTT) specifically makes a point about Zionism.
The report has mentioned that it was an instagram account so not exactly difficult to look at that to find out more about their political views (if that was relevant to the membership application which I severely doubt).
Ironically, you should take it up with Tractordownsouth if you think automatically jumping from his/her Jewishness to his/her Zionism is not OK. I would say that jump is antisemitic if that's what happened. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:12 - Aug 30 with 1564 views | lowhouseblue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:08 - Aug 30 by Darth_Koont |
I'm not splitting hairs. I'm saying that there isn't any evidence here that it was down to this person's Jewishness. Indeed the rejection (however OTT) specifically makes a point about Zionism.
The report has mentioned that it was an instagram account so not exactly difficult to look at that to find out more about their political views (if that was relevant to the membership application which I severely doubt).
Ironically, you should take it up with Tractordownsouth if you think automatically jumping from his/her Jewishness to his/her Zionism is not OK. I would say that jump is antisemitic if that's what happened. |
so your instinct is just to believe the racist with no other evidence: "Indeed the rejection (however OTT) specifically makes a point about Zionism."
lovely. the racist calls a jew a zionist because the racist is a racist. just saying.
ALL we know from the article is that the applicant was jewish. but some racist has taken jewish to mean zionist and you're just happy to go along with it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:19 - Aug 30 with 1551 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:12 - Aug 30 by lowhouseblue |
so your instinct is just to believe the racist with no other evidence: "Indeed the rejection (however OTT) specifically makes a point about Zionism."
lovely. the racist calls a jew a zionist because the racist is a racist. just saying.
ALL we know from the article is that the applicant was jewish. but some racist has taken jewish to mean zionist and you're just happy to go along with it. |
If you or anyone else hadn't sidestepped my post on the first page then you'd know what I thought and what I believe.
I'm saying that the angle that it's ALL down to his or her Jewishness is unknowable based on the article itself. Are you really asserting that the individual didn't express hardcore Zionist and indeed anti-Palestinian stuff on that account? | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:27 - Aug 30 with 1529 views | lowhouseblue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:19 - Aug 30 by Darth_Koont |
If you or anyone else hadn't sidestepped my post on the first page then you'd know what I thought and what I believe.
I'm saying that the angle that it's ALL down to his or her Jewishness is unknowable based on the article itself. Are you really asserting that the individual didn't express hardcore Zionist and indeed anti-Palestinian stuff on that account? |
"Are you really asserting that the individual didn't express hardcore Zionist and indeed anti-Palestinian stuff on that account?"
i, and you, have no way of knowing. on the basis of what we do know, the racist in the report has conflated jewish with zionist, and you're happy to assume that's right.
you're just content to take the word of a racist, and then nit pick about how bad it is.
jeez, what a hole you have spent 5 years digging. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:32 - Aug 30 with 1519 views | vapour_trail |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:03 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
This is a perfect example of the continuing baiting and misrepresentation from you that I’m extremely fed up of.
What I said was “ when the left are seen to be in alignment with thugs and vandals, the centre will move more to the right”.
Not the far right. Not to fascists. More to the right where they believe they will be better protected. More to the right where they believe law and order will be respected.
Look, this can’t be healthy for you to be following somebody around on the internet, letting somebody occupy so much time in your daily thoughts. You’ve been asked to cut it out but you obviously have little to no respect for the people who have spoken to you.
I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you but it gets to a point where the constant lies and baiting become a pain in th arse.
Somebody made a very good point the other day. People on here act in a way that they wouldn’t in a real life, face to face situation.
When the crowds return to PR I’ll be very interested to put that to a test and to see if you have the stones to approach me and act the same irk as you do in here. Heck, I’ll even make it easier for you and introduce myself.
Personally I think you’ll get all tongue tied and piss your pants. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 8:24]
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Outright lies and hypocrisy. |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:36 - Aug 30 with 1510 views | GlasgowBlue |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:29 - Aug 30 by gordon |
You've made quite a lot of fairly tenuous attempts on here over the last few months to blame racism, violence against black people, right-wing populism, racism on something that you call 'the left,' which is such an amorphous concept in your head that it can be held responsible for pretty much anything you're not keen on.
Intellectually it's a car crash, and If you don't like that being pointed out to you, then the easiest solution would be to stop doing it. |
The racism and violence against black people Is completely the fault of the racists. I’ve made that perfectly clear.
What I’ve said is that there have been too many left wing agitators and anarchists who have used this racism for their own ends, which has usually resulted in life being made even harder for black people. They return to their middle class homes whilst the black community are left to clear up the mess. The extra police presence then makes life even harder for the black community.
I’m not the only poster who has made this point. Joe posted something similar and didn’t get piled in over it. I think it was J2, apologies if it wasn’t, who posted that he hoped antifa got a good kicking.
Added to this, the two examples that I linked in my previous thread will be used by the far right to scare middle America into voting for the perceived party of law and order, as fcuked up as that may seem to you or I. If you stepped out if your bubble you would have already seen the attack ads against Biden and the Dems where this is happening.
To be clear again, and perhaps bookmark this. Racism is the fault of the racists. The blame for racism lays with no one but the racists.
Now I’m away so you won’t be hearing much from me this week. I really don’t know how some of you will cope. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:44 - Aug 30 with 1484 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 21:08 - Aug 29 by tractordownsouth |
Really don't see how people can defend this. They assumed that a customer held particular views solely due to them being Jewish and refused to serve them as a result - it's antisemitic discrimination.
As for those saying antisemitism and antizionism are different - they aren't. Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland, which led to the creation of Israel after the holocaust. By being antizionist (against a 2 state solution), you're denying Jewish people a right to self determination.
It took me a while to understand this and learn about the historical context myself, but there's really no logical way to defend these actions. The Union itself has now called their actions antisemitic. |
By the way, here's a good read to give the other side of this. And it's not just Beinart, it's a common enough view of many other Jews inside and outside of Israel.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/mar/07/debunking-myth-that-anti-zionism-is
I disagree with his assertion here that Israel isn't an apartheid state (the splitting up of Palestinian territories into enclaves is as close to the South African bantustans as you're going to get). But I understand this has made him move even further away from unquestioning Zionism given the continued settler expansion and the annexation threat. Now he sees the only hope as a one-state solution with equality for all its citizens. As he says, "It’s time to imagine a Jewish home that is not a Jewish state."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/opinion/israel-annexation-two-state-solution. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:50 - Aug 30 with 1472 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:27 - Aug 30 by lowhouseblue |
"Are you really asserting that the individual didn't express hardcore Zionist and indeed anti-Palestinian stuff on that account?"
i, and you, have no way of knowing. on the basis of what we do know, the racist in the report has conflated jewish with zionist, and you're happy to assume that's right.
you're just content to take the word of a racist, and then nit pick about how bad it is.
jeez, what a hole you have spent 5 years digging. |
Haha. I always know where to go to get the ultimate bad faith reading of what I'm saying.
We agree. We have no way of knowing on the strength of this article. And if you're saying that you can't conflate Jewishness with Zionism as it would be racist to do so, I'd also agree.
I'd be interested in Tractor's take on this. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 10:01 - Aug 30 with 1457 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:36 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
The racism and violence against black people Is completely the fault of the racists. I’ve made that perfectly clear.
What I’ve said is that there have been too many left wing agitators and anarchists who have used this racism for their own ends, which has usually resulted in life being made even harder for black people. They return to their middle class homes whilst the black community are left to clear up the mess. The extra police presence then makes life even harder for the black community.
I’m not the only poster who has made this point. Joe posted something similar and didn’t get piled in over it. I think it was J2, apologies if it wasn’t, who posted that he hoped antifa got a good kicking.
Added to this, the two examples that I linked in my previous thread will be used by the far right to scare middle America into voting for the perceived party of law and order, as fcuked up as that may seem to you or I. If you stepped out if your bubble you would have already seen the attack ads against Biden and the Dems where this is happening.
To be clear again, and perhaps bookmark this. Racism is the fault of the racists. The blame for racism lays with no one but the racists.
Now I’m away so you won’t be hearing much from me this week. I really don’t know how some of you will cope. |
It's a softer, more reasonable variant but it's still the same "There's bad people on both sides" mantra. Of course, no-one was actually arguing for violent, vandalising activists or looters either. And your own posts have been pretty similar to the attack ads demonising the left.
Enjoy your time away. I'm guessing we'll cope. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 10:57 - Aug 30 with 1416 views | giant_stow |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 09:08 - Aug 30 by Darth_Koont |
I'm not splitting hairs. I'm saying that there isn't any evidence here that it was down to this person's Jewishness. Indeed the rejection (however OTT) specifically makes a point about Zionism.
The report has mentioned that it was an instagram account so not exactly difficult to look at that to find out more about their political views (if that was relevant to the membership application which I severely doubt).
Ironically, you should take it up with Tractordownsouth if you think automatically jumping from his/her Jewishness to his/her Zionism is not OK. I would say that jump is antisemitic if that's what happened. |
Does this union check everyone's political opinions before deciding to deal with them, or just Jewish people? |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 11:41 - Aug 30 with 1395 views | solomon |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 10:57 - Aug 30 by giant_stow |
Does this union check everyone's political opinions before deciding to deal with them, or just Jewish people? |
As someone with Jewish heritage, if this was not antisemtic as this argument seems to be leaning to, it’s was certainly a case of blatant discrimination, equally abhorrent by any decent standards. |  | | |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 11:49 - Aug 30 with 1388 views | WeWereZombies |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 21:08 - Aug 29 by tractordownsouth |
Really don't see how people can defend this. They assumed that a customer held particular views solely due to them being Jewish and refused to serve them as a result - it's antisemitic discrimination.
As for those saying antisemitism and antizionism are different - they aren't. Zionism is the belief in a Jewish homeland, which led to the creation of Israel after the holocaust. By being antizionist (against a 2 state solution), you're denying Jewish people a right to self determination.
It took me a while to understand this and learn about the historical context myself, but there's really no logical way to defend these actions. The Union itself has now called their actions antisemitic. |
I do not think the issue is a simple as you are portraying it, remember that many Palestinians are also Semitic so the attitude of some Israelis, which I have encountered first hand, towards Palestinians as some sort of sub-class of human beings is a selective form of racism probably based on religious affiliation. Or Semites being selectively anti-Semitic. If pressed I suspect these Israelis would favour a one state solution and be quite happy to send all Palestinians to Tunisia again. I was already shocked enough though and was not going to press the matter further, and I did not want to sunder our friendship.
But this is not to say all Zionists are for a one state solution. There are some very brave Israelis who are very outspoken about the need for better treatment of Palestinians (if you have ever seen the documentary 'Advocate' you will know of at least one) whilst remaining totally committed to the survival of their state. Also, right from the outset of the Zionist movement there were Jews who were against it because they feared that the creation of a Jewish homeland would weaken the position of Jews elsewhere in the World even further as antisemitism used Zionism (and not the other way around as Ken Livingstone so grotesquely misunderstood it) to advance supposed repatriation. |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 11:56 - Aug 30 with 1366 views | monytowbray |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:03 - Aug 30 by GlasgowBlue |
This is a perfect example of the continuing baiting and misrepresentation from you that I’m extremely fed up of.
What I said was “ when the left are seen to be in alignment with thugs and vandals, the centre will move more to the right”.
Not the far right. Not to fascists. More to the right where they believe they will be better protected. More to the right where they believe law and order will be respected.
Look, this can’t be healthy for you to be following somebody around on the internet, letting somebody occupy so much time in your daily thoughts. You’ve been asked to cut it out but you obviously have little to no respect for the people who have spoken to you.
I’ve tried my very best not to engage with you but it gets to a point where the constant lies and baiting become a pain in th arse.
Somebody made a very good point the other day. People on here act in a way that they wouldn’t in a real life, face to face situation.
When the crowds return to PR I’ll be very interested to put that to a test and to see if you have the stones to approach me and act the same irk as you do in here. Heck, I’ll even make it easier for you and introduce myself.
Personally I think you’ll get all tongue tied and piss your pants. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 8:24]
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Hahaha is that a threat?! What do you want me to do, walk up to you and start a fight? You’re unhinged. |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 12:04 - Aug 30 with 1354 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 10:57 - Aug 30 by giant_stow |
Does this union check everyone's political opinions before deciding to deal with them, or just Jewish people? |
I don't know. I would hope not. And this is one individual that's been expelled from the organisation as a result.
My issue is the immediate conflation of pretty clear anti-zionist statements (however unreasonable in the context of joining a renters' union) with antisemitism.
If a Muslim was rejected via Instagram because they were accused of being a fundamentalist wouldn't you want to know if there's information on that person's instagram account that pointed towards that? Or would you automatically assume it's just because they're a Muslim and therefore it's racist?
The problem with a lot of the people leading this particular criticism is that they ALREADY see anti-Zionism as antisemitic so for them it's an open and shut case.
And the irony is that if this individual here has made the same conflation and a similar leap from Jew to Zionist and responsible for Israel then that really is antisemitic according to the IHRA definition and examples. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 12:09 - Aug 30 with 1337 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 11:41 - Aug 30 by solomon |
As someone with Jewish heritage, if this was not antisemtic as this argument seems to be leaning to, it’s was certainly a case of blatant discrimination, equally abhorrent by any decent standards. |
I absolutely agree it seems unfair to discriminate on political grounds if that's what happened.
But far worse if this is on racist anti-Jewish grounds which is the suggestion in the coverage. That's discriminating against a whole group rather an individual. | |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 12:19 - Aug 30 with 1317 views | tractordownsouth |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 08:41 - Aug 30 by Darth_Koont |
Who assumed that there was discrimination solely due to being Jewish? Oh that's right, the article and the OP.
But even the slightest scratch under the surface shows that the original messages were via Instagram where it's perfectly possible to see who the person is and what they stand for. As I said earlier in the thread, it still seems unnecessary to reject the application on political grounds, but on its own it's not antisemitic.
And let's be brutally frank here. Your assertion that antisemitism and anti-Zionism are the same thing is way off and spoken like a true fundamentalist. If you knew your history then you'd know there is a long tradition of secular Jewish anti-Zionism — nowadays not to deny the human rights of Israelis to live in Israel and have a state but to deny the worst excesses of the settler movement and apartheid system.
A blanket equivalence puts you on the side of those who have taken Zionism so far that it justifies denigrating and oppressing Palestinians. Taken that far, it's the ethno-religious extremism of Islamist fundamentalists, Ku Klux Klanners, white supremacists in Europe etc.
So am I against the Zionism of Jews who want the right to live peacefully in Israel? Not at all. But I tend to be against the Zionism of those who would use it to support an apartheid regime and continued oppression of millions of others. |
If someone has a star of David in their bio, and the company therefore assume they are anti-Palestine, that's racism.
I don't support oppressing Palestinians or the recent West Bank annexation. There seems to be this automatic assumption that anyone who doesn't like such discrimination against Jewish people somehow condones the actions of the Israeli government, which I don't. |  |
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| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 12:26 - Aug 30 with 1310 views | Darth_Koont |
| No Irish, No Dogs, No Blacks.... on 11:49 - Aug 30 by WeWereZombies |
I do not think the issue is a simple as you are portraying it, remember that many Palestinians are also Semitic so the attitude of some Israelis, which I have encountered first hand, towards Palestinians as some sort of sub-class of human beings is a selective form of racism probably based on religious affiliation. Or Semites being selectively anti-Semitic. If pressed I suspect these Israelis would favour a one state solution and be quite happy to send all Palestinians to Tunisia again. I was already shocked enough though and was not going to press the matter further, and I did not want to sunder our friendship.
But this is not to say all Zionists are for a one state solution. There are some very brave Israelis who are very outspoken about the need for better treatment of Palestinians (if you have ever seen the documentary 'Advocate' you will know of at least one) whilst remaining totally committed to the survival of their state. Also, right from the outset of the Zionist movement there were Jews who were against it because they feared that the creation of a Jewish homeland would weaken the position of Jews elsewhere in the World even further as antisemitism used Zionism (and not the other way around as Ken Livingstone so grotesquely misunderstood it) to advance supposed repatriation. |
Well said.
This really has become the perfect storm of politics, religion, race and nationalism, and we need to be constantly aware of the fierce interests and beliefs that drive these agendas.
The irony is that we've seen the emergence of a more fundamentalist approach because attitudes to Israel/Palestine were evolving and softening in Israel, the US and around the world. There's been a crusade to harden attitudes and play much more on identity and differences.
I'd hope (like a similar response in domestic UK and US politics) that this is the last hurrah of older, more reactionary generations trying to resist equality and social justice. But I'm deeply worried where that bunker mentality will take us and how it will impact millions of innocent people on both sides. | |
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