| No words 11:25 - Sep 9 with 4619 views | Darth_Koont |
So NOW it's all in the past and we need to get the deal over the line. And all I'm seeing is former Remainer centrist politicians and journalists calling it smart, sensible politics.
WTAF!? |  |
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| No words on 11:31 - Sep 9 with 3458 views | itfcjoe |
Brexit is done - we have left.
They won, we lsot, get over it - bla bla bla
It is about holding the Tories feet to the fire with regards to the deal. It is about ensuring they have to own No Deal because with their majority what they want to do will happen unless 50 back benchers suddenly find some back bone.
If Starmer comes out about it, he just gets painted as a Remoaner, look at Boris in PMQs last week - still going on about it. |  |
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| No words on 11:35 - Sep 9 with 3420 views | Keno |
| No words on 11:31 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
Brexit is done - we have left.
They won, we lsot, get over it - bla bla bla
It is about holding the Tories feet to the fire with regards to the deal. It is about ensuring they have to own No Deal because with their majority what they want to do will happen unless 50 back benchers suddenly find some back bone.
If Starmer comes out about it, he just gets painted as a Remoaner, look at Boris in PMQs last week - still going on about it. |
I wonder what Mark Francois thinks of this, surely he wouldn't condone breaking the law? |  |
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| No words on 11:39 - Sep 9 with 3395 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 11:31 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
Brexit is done - we have left.
They won, we lsot, get over it - bla bla bla
It is about holding the Tories feet to the fire with regards to the deal. It is about ensuring they have to own No Deal because with their majority what they want to do will happen unless 50 back benchers suddenly find some back bone.
If Starmer comes out about it, he just gets painted as a Remoaner, look at Boris in PMQs last week - still going on about it. |
But it was effectively the same situation last year and we had a bunch of grifters leave the Labour Party over it as well as a pre-election insistence on a second referendum if not a Remain position.
Bunch of clowns. They sacrificed the chance to represent vulnerable people in the wider discussion to further their own soft Establishment careers. | |
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| No words on 11:42 - Sep 9 with 3347 views | itfcjoe |
| No words on 11:39 - Sep 9 by Darth_Koont |
But it was effectively the same situation last year and we had a bunch of grifters leave the Labour Party over it as well as a pre-election insistence on a second referendum if not a Remain position.
Bunch of clowns. They sacrificed the chance to represent vulnerable people in the wider discussion to further their own soft Establishment careers. |
It wasn't effectively done last year - the Govt was in deadlock not able to get anything through, removing the whip from 20+ MPs and with no majority in the house
That the LDs and leader of the Labour party allowed them out of that bind to push for a GE was one of the stupidest decisions in history. The Tories were in a sorry state and they were handed a GE to do exactly what they wanted.
They should have been left to suffer whilst a consensus was built around them | |
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| No words on 11:46 - Sep 9 with 3320 views | Wacko |
| No words on 11:39 - Sep 9 by Darth_Koont |
But it was effectively the same situation last year and we had a bunch of grifters leave the Labour Party over it as well as a pre-election insistence on a second referendum if not a Remain position.
Bunch of clowns. They sacrificed the chance to represent vulnerable people in the wider discussion to further their own soft Establishment careers. |
No, they fought for a reversal before the election when there was a possibility it could happen. After the election, now with a Tory majority, the only option they have is to fight for the deal that would best serve vulnerable people.
Then in 4 years time when the country is on its knees they come back with the option of putting everything back to how it was*
*hopefully |  |
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| No words on 11:51 - Sep 9 with 3291 views | Swansea_Blue |
We've left. Of course a deal now is better than no deal. It's the best of the 2 only outcomes that Labour can do nothing about as they don't have the numbers to challenge. |  |
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| No words on 11:51 - Sep 9 with 3290 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 11:42 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
It wasn't effectively done last year - the Govt was in deadlock not able to get anything through, removing the whip from 20+ MPs and with no majority in the house
That the LDs and leader of the Labour party allowed them out of that bind to push for a GE was one of the stupidest decisions in history. The Tories were in a sorry state and they were handed a GE to do exactly what they wanted.
They should have been left to suffer whilst a consensus was built around them |
But the bind was also put on the Labour Party by those who left to form "Change", a majority of the remaining PLP and the Remain/second vote commentariat.
Making everything about Brexit gave the political initiative AGAIN to the Tories. Imagine if the pressure of a flimsy majority was put on the Tories in regard to their actual record?
Fine, if Remain was a principled position but it increasingly looks like just another way for the Labour right to exert its influence and undermine. Now they don't really care. | |
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| No words on 11:52 - Sep 9 with 3281 views | Herbivore |
We've left, remaining is no longer an option. It's probably too early to pin his colours to the inevitable rejoin movement. |  |
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| No words on 11:54 - Sep 9 with 3269 views | itfcjoe |
| No words on 11:51 - Sep 9 by Darth_Koont |
But the bind was also put on the Labour Party by those who left to form "Change", a majority of the remaining PLP and the Remain/second vote commentariat.
Making everything about Brexit gave the political initiative AGAIN to the Tories. Imagine if the pressure of a flimsy majority was put on the Tories in regard to their actual record?
Fine, if Remain was a principled position but it increasingly looks like just another way for the Labour right to exert its influence and undermine. Now they don't really care. |
Because the Labour party were a joke under Corbyn, those that left did so at the expense of their careers.
Everything was about Brexit, especially when there was a chance to stop it - that chance has now gone | |
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| No words on 12:03 - Sep 9 with 3213 views | nodge_blue |
Im a strong retainer but what else do you expect him to say? In that clip all he's saying is that the government should be securing a deal. Whats wrong with that?
You do seem to have a problem with democracy and having to respect the majority view. Starmer doesn't after a referendum and a general election where the working class supported the Tories as a result of Labours position of - well whatever it was. |  |
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| No words on 12:09 - Sep 9 with 3167 views | lowhouseblue |
so you don't want the government to secure a deal? each to his own i guess. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| No words on 12:09 - Sep 9 with 3165 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 11:54 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
Because the Labour party were a joke under Corbyn, those that left did so at the expense of their careers.
Everything was about Brexit, especially when there was a chance to stop it - that chance has now gone |
Well, the Change grifters have now ended up in exactly the sort of jobs that they should have been in before ever considering a career in politics.
And it wasn't all about Brexit. Even Brexit itself wasn't - as the underlying disillusionment and disenfranchisement before and after the referendum was still the major driver.
But the pressure to fight on these narrow terms was immense - the PLP and the press were utterly insistent. If that was a matter of principle then I'd expect to see some continued fight about making that point. But no, let's just move on.
Sick and tired of this performative, self-serving bobbins. They're as big an obstacle to actual change as the Tories (perhaps bigger because of where they pretend to sit). | |
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| No words on 12:16 - Sep 9 with 3115 views | itfcjoe |
| No words on 12:09 - Sep 9 by Darth_Koont |
Well, the Change grifters have now ended up in exactly the sort of jobs that they should have been in before ever considering a career in politics.
And it wasn't all about Brexit. Even Brexit itself wasn't - as the underlying disillusionment and disenfranchisement before and after the referendum was still the major driver.
But the pressure to fight on these narrow terms was immense - the PLP and the press were utterly insistent. If that was a matter of principle then I'd expect to see some continued fight about making that point. But no, let's just move on.
Sick and tired of this performative, self-serving bobbins. They're as big an obstacle to actual change as the Tories (perhaps bigger because of where they pretend to sit). |
So keep fighting battles that are already lost? Ones that are literally done and dusted. | |
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| No words on 12:18 - Sep 9 with 3100 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 12:03 - Sep 9 by nodge_blue |
Im a strong retainer but what else do you expect him to say? In that clip all he's saying is that the government should be securing a deal. Whats wrong with that?
You do seem to have a problem with democracy and having to respect the majority view. Starmer doesn't after a referendum and a general election where the working class supported the Tories as a result of Labours position of - well whatever it was. |
Labour's Brexit position was Starmer's position - one incidentally I agree with if we're talking purely about Brexit and trying to step away from the binary Leave/Remain discussion.
Our democracy is what it is: a basically flawed FPTP system that's been hideously skewed by our awful politics and media. And the democratic argument also seems to be selectively applied here given the pressure to fight the referendum result. | |
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| No words on 12:19 - Sep 9 with 3091 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 12:16 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
So keep fighting battles that are already lost? Ones that are literally done and dusted. |
"Well said Keir" | |
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| No words on 12:21 - Sep 9 with 3074 views | itfcjoe |
| No words on 12:18 - Sep 9 by Darth_Koont |
Labour's Brexit position was Starmer's position - one incidentally I agree with if we're talking purely about Brexit and trying to step away from the binary Leave/Remain discussion.
Our democracy is what it is: a basically flawed FPTP system that's been hideously skewed by our awful politics and media. And the democratic argument also seems to be selectively applied here given the pressure to fight the referendum result. |
Literally on PMQs there - Boris' big closing gambit is about how Starmer and his back benches want to go against the will of the people and stop them leaving EU
The Tories are desperate to bring it back round to that as part of their culture war - Starmer is in a 4 run lead up to the next election.
We get that you hate the democracy we live in, but ultimately the opposition have to play by the rules and try to win power when it is there to be won. When there is an 80 seat majority they will be p155ing in the wind on most matters - battles have to be picked | |
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| No words on 12:32 - Sep 9 with 3007 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 12:21 - Sep 9 by itfcjoe |
Literally on PMQs there - Boris' big closing gambit is about how Starmer and his back benches want to go against the will of the people and stop them leaving EU
The Tories are desperate to bring it back round to that as part of their culture war - Starmer is in a 4 run lead up to the next election.
We get that you hate the democracy we live in, but ultimately the opposition have to play by the rules and try to win power when it is there to be won. When there is an 80 seat majority they will be p155ing in the wind on most matters - battles have to be picked |
But the "will of the people" was the entirety of the argument after the referendum in 2016 too.
Yes I hate our "democracy" and those who keep it that way. And playing by the rules as you laughably call it will see a passive centre outflanked and outfought again.
So I have zero confidence in this sort of government wising up even if it does game the system to get elected in 4 years' time. That'll be more down to an awful Tory government anyway. | |
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| No words on 12:46 - Sep 9 with 2938 views | clive_baker |
Not really much else KS can say is there? Personally, for the good of the UK I think we might as well get all the Brexit malarkey put to be alongside the Covid impact to 2020 / 2021. What nobody needs is a further prolonged period of uncertainty. It's like ripping off a plaster, we might as well get all the bad news out now and the negative sentiment that brings, while the rest of the world is also on it's ar5e, before hopefully entering into a period of increased confidence, increasing job participation and economic growth off the back of it all.
It's somewhat frustrating from an accountability perspective that Covid will mask the adverse impact of Brexit in the short term, but frankly I'm so far beyond "he said / she said" at this point. It's happening, I'm not happy about it, but its done. We lost, and I'm over it, thank you. The debate has dragged on for 5 years and to be honest I'm bored sh1tless with it all. I just want all this put to bed and a competent government to be instated to start the rebuilding process off the back of it all. |  |
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| No words on 13:11 - Sep 9 with 2864 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 12:46 - Sep 9 by clive_baker |
Not really much else KS can say is there? Personally, for the good of the UK I think we might as well get all the Brexit malarkey put to be alongside the Covid impact to 2020 / 2021. What nobody needs is a further prolonged period of uncertainty. It's like ripping off a plaster, we might as well get all the bad news out now and the negative sentiment that brings, while the rest of the world is also on it's ar5e, before hopefully entering into a period of increased confidence, increasing job participation and economic growth off the back of it all.
It's somewhat frustrating from an accountability perspective that Covid will mask the adverse impact of Brexit in the short term, but frankly I'm so far beyond "he said / she said" at this point. It's happening, I'm not happy about it, but its done. We lost, and I'm over it, thank you. The debate has dragged on for 5 years and to be honest I'm bored sh1tless with it all. I just want all this put to bed and a competent government to be instated to start the rebuilding process off the back of it all. |
I don't disagree with any of that really.
It's been 4 years of uncertainty and political/media discussion that has only served the interests of party/factional politics and the media itself. Because the result of all this seems to be a hard, no deal Brexit no-one wanted in the first place.
So it's effectively been a colossal waste of time and energy, while too many other issues also went unaddressed. But it's apparently now that we should all just move on and think about some bigger picture.
Of course, it should always have been the bigger picture before, during and after the referendum. | |
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| No words on 13:14 - Sep 9 with 2837 views | MonkeyAlan |
Starmer is even weaker than l thought he would be. |  | | |
| No words on 13:15 - Sep 9 with 2834 views | m14_blue |
| No words on 13:14 - Sep 9 by MonkeyAlan |
Starmer is even weaker than l thought he would be. |
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| No words on 13:36 - Sep 9 with 2754 views | giant_stow |
I'm choking on the thought of a corbynite getting cross about the labour party not fighting hard enough against Brexit. gurgle. |  |
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| No words on 13:38 - Sep 9 with 2742 views | Darth_Koont |
| No words on 13:36 - Sep 9 by giant_stow |
I'm choking on the thought of a corbynite getting cross about the labour party not fighting hard enough against Brexit. gurgle. |
No, that's your brain seizing up.
As you're well aware I'm an ultra-Remainer which isn't even Corbyn's position. | |
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| No words on 14:44 - Sep 9 with 2596 views | giant_stow |
Interesting read - thanks. I don't see how a die hard remainer can complain about this stance when we lost and lost again. It's surely a hard brexiter position to leave with no deal and relations with the EU in tatters. | |
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