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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity 09:12 - Sep 10 with 4159 viewsNthQldITFC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54091048

Depressing and perhaps almost too big an issue for many of us to comprehend. Human activities and our continuing complacency and self-interest are a massive and direct threat to everything that ever has been and everything that ever could be. Permanently.

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:24 - Sep 10 with 3649 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Yeah but stuff!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:33 - Sep 10 with 3630 viewseireblue

“Pah, WWF are just a radical left wing Marxist group that want everyone to eat turnips.

I feel that their predictions, that may well be based on science and observable facts, are wrong.

Nothing to worry about.

I am now going to find an audible book that agrees with me.“

Sorry, just thought I would help out and condense some of the usual response.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:36 - Sep 10 with 3628 viewsMonkeyAlan

Until you can get the likes of USA, lndia, China on side we are stuffed. Our little effort is just that, nothing, without the huge countries who don't seem to give a damn.
It always gets me when you hear it said that 99% of all life is extinct. That's impossible to comprehend really.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:42 - Sep 10 with 3614 viewsDarth_Koont

As you say, it's really all about complacency and self-interest. And crucially, that's mostly in the political sphere which we need to engage to do something about it.

We should have cross-party commitments backed up by legislative programmes on stuff like the environment, child poverty, human rights, infrastructure investment, regional regeneration etc. because otherwise little to nothing happens and certainly we're currently incapable of taking the long-term steps.

In this and other areas we should be on a wartime national government footing as the dangers are every bit as great as a war, perhaps more so as many are irreversible.

Pronouns: He/Him

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:47 - Sep 10 with 3598 viewsClapham_Junction

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:36 - Sep 10 by MonkeyAlan

Until you can get the likes of USA, lndia, China on side we are stuffed. Our little effort is just that, nothing, without the huge countries who don't seem to give a damn.
It always gets me when you hear it said that 99% of all life is extinct. That's impossible to comprehend really.


While we cannot change Chinese government policy, we can make an impact by stopping buying stuff made in China.

The UK has not done miraculously well in reducing our emissions, we have simply outsourced around half of them to other countries - more than almost any other country (with China being the biggest source of our overseas carbon footprint).
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:53 - Sep 10 with 3586 viewsMonkeyAlan

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:47 - Sep 10 by Clapham_Junction

While we cannot change Chinese government policy, we can make an impact by stopping buying stuff made in China.

The UK has not done miraculously well in reducing our emissions, we have simply outsourced around half of them to other countries - more than almost any other country (with China being the biggest source of our overseas carbon footprint).


The idea of not buying Chinese goods is right. Trouble is it will never happen lm afraid.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:54 - Sep 10 with 3586 viewsNthQldITFC

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:36 - Sep 10 by MonkeyAlan

Until you can get the likes of USA, lndia, China on side we are stuffed. Our little effort is just that, nothing, without the huge countries who don't seem to give a damn.
It always gets me when you hear it said that 99% of all life is extinct. That's impossible to comprehend really.


There will come a time when biodiversity loss becomes a significant issue in the minds of a majority of people all over the world, and continually raising the issue and challenging all sorts of people to think about it is important.

It will become a significant issue for the majority, even if only because the breakdown of ecosystems upon which our self-centred food production systems depend will be very directly killing humans too eventually. Hopefully it won't take that long, and we'll realise that other species really ought to be protected for their own sake, rather than because they are useful or interesting to us.

The 99% thing, I think, refers to the churn of evolution over several billion years.

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Bleedin' wrestlers. (n/t) on 10:51 - Sep 10 with 3566 viewsBloots


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Bleedin' wrestlers. (n/t) on 10:57 - Sep 10 with 3563 viewsKeno

Bleedin' wrestlers. (n/t) on 10:51 - Sep 10 by Bloots



Its all fixed anyway!!

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"Not the ears, not the ears!!!" (n/t) on 11:13 - Sep 10 with 3547 viewsBloots

Bleedin' wrestlers. (n/t) on 10:57 - Sep 10 by Keno

Its all fixed anyway!!

Was much better when It was Mick McManus and his mob



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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:03 - Sep 10 with 3528 viewshampstead_blue

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:36 - Sep 10 by MonkeyAlan

Until you can get the likes of USA, lndia, China on side we are stuffed. Our little effort is just that, nothing, without the huge countries who don't seem to give a damn.
It always gets me when you hear it said that 99% of all life is extinct. That's impossible to comprehend really.


I agree.

There are so many countries behind in development terms who are desperate to create wealth for themselves.
I'd guess they all want the right to be as we were and do whatever is reasonable to empower and grow their own economy.

What can we do?
Hammering SUV's is as close to pointless as you can get. You need countries to change.

Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:07 - Sep 10 with 3524 viewsNthQldITFC

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:03 - Sep 10 by hampstead_blue

I agree.

There are so many countries behind in development terms who are desperate to create wealth for themselves.
I'd guess they all want the right to be as we were and do whatever is reasonable to empower and grow their own economy.

What can we do?
Hammering SUV's is as close to pointless as you can get. You need countries to change.


We, the life of this planet, cannot afford to think so anthropocentrically (if that is a word).

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:10 - Sep 10 with 3520 viewsDanTheMan

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:03 - Sep 10 by hampstead_blue

I agree.

There are so many countries behind in development terms who are desperate to create wealth for themselves.
I'd guess they all want the right to be as we were and do whatever is reasonable to empower and grow their own economy.

What can we do?
Hammering SUV's is as close to pointless as you can get. You need countries to change.


Guess we'll just not bother then.

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:24 - Sep 10 with 3500 viewsDubtractor

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:10 - Sep 10 by DanTheMan

Guess we'll just not bother then.


So bloody depressing isn't it?

I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun. I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:36 - Sep 10 with 3479 viewsgordon

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:03 - Sep 10 by hampstead_blue

I agree.

There are so many countries behind in development terms who are desperate to create wealth for themselves.
I'd guess they all want the right to be as we were and do whatever is reasonable to empower and grow their own economy.

What can we do?
Hammering SUV's is as close to pointless as you can get. You need countries to change.


We can change the way we eat, travel, and consume; and we can demand that businesses and our government support us.

That's it - that's all that is within our power to do, so it's all that we need to do.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:54 - Sep 10 with 3458 viewsDarth_Koont

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:36 - Sep 10 by gordon

We can change the way we eat, travel, and consume; and we can demand that businesses and our government support us.

That's it - that's all that is within our power to do, so it's all that we need to do.


Indeed. And I think there's been a lot of change in how consumers look at things and also in my experience with how seriously companies they take their sustainability commitments. It used to be largely greenwashing a decade or so ago but there's been a huge shift in how they actually source and manufacture goods or what practices they'll support with their services.

The EU legislation is pretty good at backing that up and supporting further change but governments like ours stick out as pretty weak.

Pronouns: He/Him

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:55 - Sep 10 with 3458 viewsWeWereZombies

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 09:36 - Sep 10 by MonkeyAlan

Until you can get the likes of USA, lndia, China on side we are stuffed. Our little effort is just that, nothing, without the huge countries who don't seem to give a damn.
It always gets me when you hear it said that 99% of all life is extinct. That's impossible to comprehend really.


You have created a big job for yourself there, volunteering to go around the United States, India and China on an environmental campaign. Probably some surprises in store for you when you meet members of the Sierra Club in North America, Jains and readers of Rabindranath Tagore in India and manufacturers of solar panels in China. Sadly, when you return from this task in thirty years time I expect that not many of the current posters on this forum will be around to hear how you have got on.

Or you could 'be the change that you want to see' and make the changes in your own life that you want to see rather than fretting about other people far away. You are more likely to be able to influence those close by if they see your life improve as a result. And then the people on the other side of them will see the beneficial effect when your neighbours adopt best practice and so on.
[Post edited 10 Sep 2020 12:57]

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:58 - Sep 10 with 3453 viewsNthQldITFC

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:54 - Sep 10 by Darth_Koont

Indeed. And I think there's been a lot of change in how consumers look at things and also in my experience with how seriously companies they take their sustainability commitments. It used to be largely greenwashing a decade or so ago but there's been a huge shift in how they actually source and manufacture goods or what practices they'll support with their services.

The EU legislation is pretty good at backing that up and supporting further change but governments like ours stick out as pretty weak.


That's encouraging to hear. Thanks.

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:58 - Sep 10 with 3451 viewsClapham_Junction

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:03 - Sep 10 by hampstead_blue

I agree.

There are so many countries behind in development terms who are desperate to create wealth for themselves.
I'd guess they all want the right to be as we were and do whatever is reasonable to empower and grow their own economy.

What can we do?
Hammering SUV's is as close to pointless as you can get. You need countries to change.


What can we do? A few ideas:

1. Lead by example. Show other countries you have have a developed economy and lifestyle with minimal emissions. If we invest heavily in doing this, that spend will help enhance and bring down the cost of some of the technology needed to do it, helping others to follow our lead. Hammering SUVs will be part of this.

2. Try and change consumer behaviour. Perhaps introduce mandatory carbon labeling that includes manufacturing and transport emissions. This will show consumers the impact of goods made in China. This could force Chinese manufacturers to change their methods to make their products more attractive (if we were still part of the EU, we could have tried to make carbon labelling an EU requirement but sadly our influence is much diminished).

3. Directly help others do it. Funnel our overseas aid into clean energy projects. Create a massive loan fund for clean energy projects that is more attractive than taking Chinese loans to build coal power stations.

4. Use whatever leverage we can, for example using debt relief to require countries to put into place legally binding carbon targets.

5. Try and set up a global agreement to get countries to commit to the measures needed. Given that we are on the verge of making ourselves a pariah state, it's unlikely we could do this, but a country with a good and reputable government might be able to.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:02 - Sep 10 with 3440 viewshampstead_blue

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:07 - Sep 10 by NthQldITFC

We, the life of this planet, cannot afford to think so anthropocentrically (if that is a word).


https://www.dictionary.com/browse/anthropocentric

Cracking word. Love it.

I'm all for massive reductions in carbon emissions. I just find one of the biggest, if not the biggest hurdle to be the developing nations.

If they can develop their economies, educate and empower their citizens in a way which won't burn tonnes of coal etc then fabulous.

All of the micro changes are just that I'm afraid. We need to invest massive amounts in technology. Forget Mr SUV, spend money on R&D.

We also need to grip the likes of Mr Brazil nut and stop him. Anyone for some Brazilian regime change? (you know I'm joking right?).....

Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:07 - Sep 10 with 3430 viewseireblue

I wonder if there would be a way to really raise awareness about this, and try and inject some urgency.

You know, somewhat oppose or maybe rebel against the status quo and lack of progress of what looks very much like an extinction event.

Probably just need a snappy title and some eye catching events.
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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:09 - Sep 10 with 3428 viewsNthQldITFC

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:02 - Sep 10 by hampstead_blue

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/anthropocentric

Cracking word. Love it.

I'm all for massive reductions in carbon emissions. I just find one of the biggest, if not the biggest hurdle to be the developing nations.

If they can develop their economies, educate and empower their citizens in a way which won't burn tonnes of coal etc then fabulous.

All of the micro changes are just that I'm afraid. We need to invest massive amounts in technology. Forget Mr SUV, spend money on R&D.

We also need to grip the likes of Mr Brazil nut and stop him. Anyone for some Brazilian regime change? (you know I'm joking right?).....


It was me trying to turn it into an adverb I was questioning!

I think technology will undoubtedly play a part, and totally agree about the Brazilian tvvat.

# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
Poll: It's driving me nuts

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:18 - Sep 10 with 3423 viewsWeWereZombies

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:09 - Sep 10 by NthQldITFC

It was me trying to turn it into an adverb I was questioning!

I think technology will undoubtedly play a part, and totally agree about the Brazilian tvvat.


Just in case MonkeyAlan is still reading and took my suggestion to go on an environmental crusade around teh World's worst polluters, or Hampstead is thinking of strapping on an AK47 and emulating his previous avatar with an assault on Bolsonaro:

https://time.com/5873137/record-number-killing-environmental-activists-2019/

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:21 - Sep 10 with 3420 viewsDarth_Koont

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 12:58 - Sep 10 by NthQldITFC

That's encouraging to hear. Thanks.


No problem. There's a lot further to go of course and it's really still an overall production/consumption issue that's hard to resolve without changing our need for growth as the predominant driver in the global economy.

But that move to be more environmentally and socially responsible as a business case (consumer/market demands, customer/supplier demands, employer branding, ethical investment, lower risk exposure etc.) plus the fact that many CEOs, boards and their social circles have now grown up with the need to protect the environment means that it's probably now the area of corporate governance that is most well observed.

Just needs the continued support of increasingly stringent regulations and more government support to offset any costs. Plus of course only governments can really build up the infrastructure of a Green Industrial Revolution to keep pushing further or help put international sanctions on countries that are lagging behind.

As it stands, the UK puts too much of its own production/consumption problems on other countries and we also have an economy that is supported by multinationals that I believe are responsible for as much as 15% of the global CO2 output. Would be nice to see us carry that burden rather than shrug our shoulders.

Pronouns: He/Him

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WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:23 - Sep 10 with 3415 viewsNthQldITFC

WWF 'catastrophic decline' of biodiversity on 13:18 - Sep 10 by WeWereZombies

Just in case MonkeyAlan is still reading and took my suggestion to go on an environmental crusade around teh World's worst polluters, or Hampstead is thinking of strapping on an AK47 and emulating his previous avatar with an assault on Bolsonaro:

https://time.com/5873137/record-number-killing-environmental-activists-2019/


The people mentioned in that Time report are true heroes in my eyes. I cry for, and take my metaphorical hat off to each and every one of them. Wish I had their balls.

EDIT: I think 'balls' probably ought to have been 'courage' in this context, but I'll leave it as is!
[Post edited 10 Sep 2020 13:29]

# WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE #
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