| Zonal Marking 21:58 - Sep 14 with 1867 views | Blue12345 |
Just watching the highlights and the first free header from the corner it looks like we were zonal marking. I’ve watched it back a few times and paused it.
6 Ipswich players in a line on the 6 yard box, with only 3 Wigan players in the 6 yard box. And only 1 of those 3 Wigan players was being marked to a man.
Also there are 3 Wigan players stood on the penalty spot with then only 2 town players stood on the penalty spot. It is one of these that gets the free header. Further to this there is a free Wigan man stood on the edge of the 18 yard box, again completely on his own.
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| Zonal Marking on 22:04 - Sep 14 with 1838 views | Chrisd |
Zonal marking is utter rubbish, why teams persist with it for set pieces I find totally baffling? It causes more confusion than anything. It appears easier for the attacking side to lose their markers by making simple runs. [Post edited 14 Sep 2020 22:07]
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| Zonal Marking on 22:27 - Sep 14 with 1764 views | Bluefish |
| Zonal Marking on 22:04 - Sep 14 by Chrisd |
Zonal marking is utter rubbish, why teams persist with it for set pieces I find totally baffling? It causes more confusion than anything. It appears easier for the attacking side to lose their markers by making simple runs. [Post edited 14 Sep 2020 22:07]
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I played zonal marking for years we had 3 key players that we knew would win the header so 3 positions front middle and back. The other players then mark where needed. You need the right players and the right training and it is better |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 22:35 - Sep 14 with 1739 views | Plums |
| Zonal Marking on 22:27 - Sep 14 by Bluefish |
I played zonal marking for years we had 3 key players that we knew would win the header so 3 positions front middle and back. The other players then mark where needed. You need the right players and the right training and it is better |
I agree. A defender moving away from goal is always going to have a better chance of getting a good head on a ball than one following an attacker who’s moving towards the goal. It’s the implementation of it that’s the problem. |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 22:37 - Sep 14 with 1732 views | Chrisd |
| Zonal Marking on 22:27 - Sep 14 by Bluefish |
I played zonal marking for years we had 3 key players that we knew would win the header so 3 positions front middle and back. The other players then mark where needed. You need the right players and the right training and it is better |
Personal preference I suppose, but I much prefer the traditional approach much less confusion. | |
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| Zonal Marking on 08:58 - Sep 15 with 1476 views | FrankfurtBlue |
Not sure that it was zonal marking at all, rather rank poor defensive man marking and poor organisation generally. Not just at the corner, but for the second Obi header, we get drawn towards the ball without looking for the opponents behind us. It is down to the individuals to mark opponents, as would have been agreed before the game (hopefully), and if that doesn't happen for players to shout at each other to do their agreed jobs.
It was criminal at that corner. Holy was left with an unmarked man in front of him. A 2 defenders v 3 attackers situation (as the OP stated) in the middle of our box, hence Obi having a completely free header, Sears sauntering out of the box, leaving Chambers to take his man, marking nobody as the ball comes in, but he doesn't even go to mark the Wigan player free on the egde of the box.
If it was an attempt at zonal marking, they need to realise that the central zone is more important than the beyond the near post. Leave Ward to do the near post and bring Wilson back more centrally.
Also, as an aside. Do they have a coach/anyone analysing these incidents during the game on a screen and feeding back suggested improvements to the pitch-side staff? |  | | |
| Zonal Marking on 09:19 - Sep 15 with 1454 views | Blue12345 |
| Zonal Marking on 08:58 - Sep 15 by FrankfurtBlue |
Not sure that it was zonal marking at all, rather rank poor defensive man marking and poor organisation generally. Not just at the corner, but for the second Obi header, we get drawn towards the ball without looking for the opponents behind us. It is down to the individuals to mark opponents, as would have been agreed before the game (hopefully), and if that doesn't happen for players to shout at each other to do their agreed jobs.
It was criminal at that corner. Holy was left with an unmarked man in front of him. A 2 defenders v 3 attackers situation (as the OP stated) in the middle of our box, hence Obi having a completely free header, Sears sauntering out of the box, leaving Chambers to take his man, marking nobody as the ball comes in, but he doesn't even go to mark the Wigan player free on the egde of the box.
If it was an attempt at zonal marking, they need to realise that the central zone is more important than the beyond the near post. Leave Ward to do the near post and bring Wilson back more centrally.
Also, as an aside. Do they have a coach/anyone analysing these incidents during the game on a screen and feeding back suggested improvements to the pitch-side staff? |
Agreed that whether it was or wasn’t zonal, the marking was awful for a professional football team. At any level even you would be disappointed with that. My suggestion that it was an attempt at zonal is due to the fact how many Ipswich players were seemingly marking space not players.
Interesting point your raised about does anyone any any analysing these parts of the game. You’d hope so. | | | |
| Zonal Marking on 09:56 - Sep 15 with 1413 views | textbackup |
| Zonal Marking on 22:27 - Sep 14 by Bluefish |
I played zonal marking for years we had 3 key players that we knew would win the header so 3 positions front middle and back. The other players then mark where needed. You need the right players and the right training and it is better |
however we have toto and Wilson in there...... |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 10:00 - Sep 15 with 1407 views | Bluefish |
| Zonal Marking on 09:56 - Sep 15 by textbackup |
however we have toto and Wilson in there...... |
Completely agree, neither of them can marshall the defence well enough. We can however stick chambers and ward as 2 and one of those 2 do as they are told. We lack height and strength elsewhere though.
I can't see Wilson and toto being the heart of our defence for long but they won't be as bad with capable people around 1 of them. Both are poor in the air | |
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| Zonal Marking on 10:45 - Sep 15 with 1352 views | Wickets |
| Zonal Marking on 10:00 - Sep 15 by Bluefish |
Completely agree, neither of them can marshall the defence well enough. We can however stick chambers and ward as 2 and one of those 2 do as they are told. We lack height and strength elsewhere though.
I can't see Wilson and toto being the heart of our defence for long but they won't be as bad with capable people around 1 of them. Both are poor in the air |
TBH I have sleepless nights over these two . Just a pity we can't move them on as their is no chance of signing another CB while we still have them . |  | | |
| Zonal Marking on 10:51 - Sep 15 with 1345 views | WestStanderLaLaLa |
We’ve been defending corners using mixed zonal for ages. Whilst we got away with it on Sunday we have generally conceded few from corners. |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 11:10 - Sep 15 with 1318 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Zonal Marking on 22:27 - Sep 14 by Bluefish |
I played zonal marking for years we had 3 key players that we knew would win the header so 3 positions front middle and back. The other players then mark where needed. You need the right players and the right training and it is better |
Amazing that good old Christian knows better than pretty much every professional side in the world isn’t it? |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 11:16 - Sep 15 with 1315 views | JammyDodgerrr |
Zonal marking is better and that's why most teams play it - but when it goes wrong it is so obvious and looks a mistake. Same with playing out from the back - when you get it wrong, you give away a goal like Brighton last night, but you don't notice the benefits always(see the third arsenal goal) |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 11:20 - Sep 15 with 1292 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Zonal Marking on 11:16 - Sep 15 by JammyDodgerrr |
Zonal marking is better and that's why most teams play it - but when it goes wrong it is so obvious and looks a mistake. Same with playing out from the back - when you get it wrong, you give away a goal like Brighton last night, but you don't notice the benefits always(see the third arsenal goal) |
It’s basically that any goal conceded from a corner with man marking sees the player blamed, whereas with zonal the system gets blamed. So people are always saying zonal marking is rubbish but never man marking as they focus on individuals with the latter
The fact that pretty much every side at any decent levels uses some form of zonal marking shows the stupidity of anyone that thinks it’s rubbish, quite frankly | |
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| Zonal Marking on 11:33 - Sep 15 with 1273 views | bournemouthblue |
| Zonal Marking on 10:00 - Sep 15 by Bluefish |
Completely agree, neither of them can marshall the defence well enough. We can however stick chambers and ward as 2 and one of those 2 do as they are told. We lack height and strength elsewhere though.
I can't see Wilson and toto being the heart of our defence for long but they won't be as bad with capable people around 1 of them. Both are poor in the air |
It's certainly a pretty small side, I felt we lost the early exchanges across the pitch, simply because Wigan were physically quite a bit bigger than us and they didn't give us a lot of space
Gradually as we got into the game, we dealt with them better and started to get our game going. There were glimpses of quality when we were allowed space but I worry a little for us when dealing with the more organised physical sides at this level.
Wigan clearly have some talented individuals left over from the Championship who will cause issues for sides without playing particularly well so they're definitely a bit of a banana skin at the moment.
I can't see Otobor remaining after his contract ends, he looked a handful. Garner may well move on as well, he's certainly a tricky customer when given half a yard in the box. Obi looks like he has great potential and looks a serious asset from set pieces.
It's hard to make too many judgements |  |
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| Zonal Marking on 12:55 - Sep 15 with 1232 views | Chrisd |
| Zonal Marking on 11:10 - Sep 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Amazing that good old Christian knows better than pretty much every professional side in the world isn’t it? |
Funny that, I thought this was a forum and you give your opinion? If you don't like my view, which appears evident in most cases as you can't help yourself having a little dig, then do us both a favour and press ignore, there's a good lad. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 12:59]
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| Zonal Marking on 13:14 - Sep 15 with 1189 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Zonal Marking on 12:55 - Sep 15 by Chrisd |
Funny that, I thought this was a forum and you give your opinion? If you don't like my view, which appears evident in most cases as you can't help yourself having a little dig, then do us both a favour and press ignore, there's a good lad. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 12:59]
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My opinion was that your opinion was stupid - if you don’t like people pointing out that your opinion is stupid then it’s probably best not to repeatedly post stupid opinions... | |
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| Zonal Marking on 13:49 - Sep 15 with 1141 views | Chrisd |
| Zonal Marking on 13:27 - Sep 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Actually my insight was that pretty much every professional team in world using zonal marking rather suggests your view is incorrect
Unless you want to provide some insight as to why you know better I would suggest that it is you that is derailing the thread seeing as your last 2 posts haven’t actually addressed the subject matter at all |
Yes, I'm the one derailing the thread......  . If you want, PM me and we can discuss the matter as I'd be interested in your views and I can explain mine, but I'm not going to engage in a discussion of personal insults with endless postings that bores everyone else senseless and ultimately makes a decent thread nonsensical. | |
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| Zonal Marking on 15:32 - Sep 15 with 1078 views | Blue12345 |
| Zonal Marking on 14:10 - Sep 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
A PM isn’t going to add anything that isn’t already in this thread and I’m more than happy to have my posts on the forum for all to read - if people don’t want to that’s their prerogative
I’ve posted twice to you now my general view that every professional side using zonal marking implies it is the most effective of defending corners and in a separate post that it gets an undue amount of stick given any goals conceded get attributed to the system (whereas man marking the player is blamed)
If you’re interested in those views and want to discuss them then do so. Alternatively keep complaining about personal insults (which didn’t exist) and the thread being derailed whilst not adding anything of substance yourself [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 14:11]
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A lot of top level professional sides mark man to man with set players / spare players marking zonal. So it’s actually a combination of both. Yes majority of teams incorporate some form of zonal you are correct but this is combined with man to man.
A team that done this really well last season was Liverpool. Hopefully we get it right, as whatever way Ipswich go regarding marking I think we can all agree we need to learn a couple of defensive lessons from the Wigan game. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 15:34]
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| Zonal Marking on 15:41 - Sep 15 with 1062 views | Chrisd |
| Zonal Marking on 15:32 - Sep 15 by Blue12345 |
A lot of top level professional sides mark man to man with set players / spare players marking zonal. So it’s actually a combination of both. Yes majority of teams incorporate some form of zonal you are correct but this is combined with man to man.
A team that done this really well last season was Liverpool. Hopefully we get it right, as whatever way Ipswich go regarding marking I think we can all agree we need to learn a couple of defensive lessons from the Wigan game. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 15:34]
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1360111-man-ma
I found this an interesting read, might be a little dated but the principles haven’t really changed. | |
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| Zonal Marking on 15:51 - Sep 15 with 1038 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Zonal Marking on 15:32 - Sep 15 by Blue12345 |
A lot of top level professional sides mark man to man with set players / spare players marking zonal. So it’s actually a combination of both. Yes majority of teams incorporate some form of zonal you are correct but this is combined with man to man.
A team that done this really well last season was Liverpool. Hopefully we get it right, as whatever way Ipswich go regarding marking I think we can all agree we need to learn a couple of defensive lessons from the Wigan game. [Post edited 15 Sep 2020 15:34]
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This is a fair point and I should have added that in reality most teams apply a hybrid. However even where having man markers in most cases zonal is very much the basis and those man markers are there primarily to block and disrupt runs rather than the traditional idea. Plus I think most people that moan about zonal marking would see teams like Liverpool with a line of defenders across the 6 yard box as employing those tactics that they think are rubbish
Agree fully with the last paragraph but would suggest it’s the players and execution that are the problem rather than ‘Zonal Marking LOL’ | |
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| Zonal Marking on 15:53 - Sep 15 with 1040 views | itfcjoe |
| Zonal Marking on 11:20 - Sep 15 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
It’s basically that any goal conceded from a corner with man marking sees the player blamed, whereas with zonal the system gets blamed. So people are always saying zonal marking is rubbish but never man marking as they focus on individuals with the latter
The fact that pretty much every side at any decent levels uses some form of zonal marking shows the stupidity of anyone that thinks it’s rubbish, quite frankly |
I've never seen a Zone score a goal.....! |  |
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