| F*****g TfL 22:27 - Sep 21 with 2513 views | Pendejo |
On top of all the nonsensical road closures that are making it more and more difficult to traverse London they have 're-designated 90% of the bus lanes from time controlled to at anytime.
The 10% not changed tend to be flanked on either side by ones that have changed, personally I think this dangerous.
Grumble over. |  |
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| F*****g TfL on 22:37 - Sep 21 with 2464 views | Clapham_Junction |
Personally I'm all in favour. People need to be made to get out of their cars.
Sadly it seems many people think it's more important for them to be able to drive to the shops than it is to stop people dying from air pollution and reduce their carbon footprint.
The kind of language I'm seeing in our local Facebook group is reminiscent of Brexit debates. |  | | |
| F*****g TfL on 22:45 - Sep 21 with 2437 views | loftboy |
| F*****g TfL on 22:37 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
Personally I'm all in favour. People need to be made to get out of their cars.
Sadly it seems many people think it's more important for them to be able to drive to the shops than it is to stop people dying from air pollution and reduce their carbon footprint.
The kind of language I'm seeing in our local Facebook group is reminiscent of Brexit debates. |
But it’s creating mayhem on the surrounding roads, particularly the road closures, had a delivery tonight just off city road, had to divert down to old street and come in from the opposite end, hows that helping the emissions? Several drivers are failing deliveries as they are running out of time which also Sean there are vulnerable people not getting their weekly food shop. |  | | |
| F*****g TfL on 22:59 - Sep 21 with 2397 views | Clapham_Junction |
| F*****g TfL on 22:45 - Sep 21 by loftboy |
But it’s creating mayhem on the surrounding roads, particularly the road closures, had a delivery tonight just off city road, had to divert down to old street and come in from the opposite end, hows that helping the emissions? Several drivers are failing deliveries as they are running out of time which also Sean there are vulnerable people not getting their weekly food shop. |
Road changes always create confusion at first when people aren't sure which way to go.
The test is what the situation looks like in a few months when people who are still need to drive are familiar with possible routes.
Even though some of the remaining journeys will be longer, the net impact will be a reduction in emissions. | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 22:59 - Sep 21 with 2393 views | Coastalblue |
| F*****g TfL on 22:45 - Sep 21 by loftboy |
But it’s creating mayhem on the surrounding roads, particularly the road closures, had a delivery tonight just off city road, had to divert down to old street and come in from the opposite end, hows that helping the emissions? Several drivers are failing deliveries as they are running out of time which also Sean there are vulnerable people not getting their weekly food shop. |
This is a big issue which does seem to get ignored.
Since lockdown lots of people want everything dropped to their door, which is understandable and not unreasonable. A lot of the main courier companies are now using electric vehicles, DPD, Amazon, Post Office, etc but there's little to no allowance made for any of this and deliveries are treated no differently to somebody making a 10 minute leisure journey by car.
The way shopping is going few people are going to leave home to do it, including their grocery shop, and that should be good overall however there does need to be some sort of strategy put in place to deal with this. |  |
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| F*****g TfL on 23:03 - Sep 21 with 2385 views | Pendejo |
| F*****g TfL on 22:37 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
Personally I'm all in favour. People need to be made to get out of their cars.
Sadly it seems many people think it's more important for them to be able to drive to the shops than it is to stop people dying from air pollution and reduce their carbon footprint.
The kind of language I'm seeing in our local Facebook group is reminiscent of Brexit debates. |
But it isn't forcing people to get out of their cars is it...? It's forcing people to drive further creating more emissions, not reducing them.
Bromley are suing Croydon for a road closures near Crystal Palace as it has pushed more traffic into one of it's roads. They showed an example of where some poor disabled old girl had a mile drive to the doctors extended to give miles and 29+ minutes by one of these road closures.
We are being told not to use public transport.
I personally use the roads to deliver food aid to vulnerable people (fuel entirely at my expense) and these latest changes are making me reconsider whether to carry on.
When I was working I either started 05:30 or finished midnight, public transport not an option, place of work over 20 miles away cycling not an option.
As for the word MADE that's a bit fascist bully boyish. | |
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| F*****g TfL on 23:14 - Sep 21 with 2360 views | Clapham_Junction |
| F*****g TfL on 23:03 - Sep 21 by Pendejo |
But it isn't forcing people to get out of their cars is it...? It's forcing people to drive further creating more emissions, not reducing them.
Bromley are suing Croydon for a road closures near Crystal Palace as it has pushed more traffic into one of it's roads. They showed an example of where some poor disabled old girl had a mile drive to the doctors extended to give miles and 29+ minutes by one of these road closures.
We are being told not to use public transport.
I personally use the roads to deliver food aid to vulnerable people (fuel entirely at my expense) and these latest changes are making me reconsider whether to carry on.
When I was working I either started 05:30 or finished midnight, public transport not an option, place of work over 20 miles away cycling not an option.
As for the word MADE that's a bit fascist bully boyish. |
The idea is to make it less convenient to drive and safer/more attractive to walk and cycle. The shift in attitudes won't happen overnight, hence why they schemes will only be reviewed once they've had time to bed in.
We're in a climate emergency and nearly 4,000 people in London die every year because of air pollution. Yes, a few people will be inconvenienced by the changes to the road layouts, but we can't continue with the current system. That's why people need to be made to get out of their cars.
The results of this survey are quite telling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54208995 | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 23:17 - Sep 21 with 2354 views | StokieBlue |
| F*****g TfL on 22:37 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
Personally I'm all in favour. People need to be made to get out of their cars.
Sadly it seems many people think it's more important for them to be able to drive to the shops than it is to stop people dying from air pollution and reduce their carbon footprint.
The kind of language I'm seeing in our local Facebook group is reminiscent of Brexit debates. |
Whilst I agree with the general theme of your post it's perhaps not an ideal time to make such changes when people are scared and unwilling to get on public transport due to a once in a hundred years global pandemic.
On top of that we are told not to use public transport unless it's necessary.
They can't have it both ways.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| F*****g TfL on 23:25 - Sep 21 with 2325 views | Clapham_Junction |
| F*****g TfL on 23:17 - Sep 21 by StokieBlue |
Whilst I agree with the general theme of your post it's perhaps not an ideal time to make such changes when people are scared and unwilling to get on public transport due to a once in a hundred years global pandemic.
On top of that we are told not to use public transport unless it's necessary.
They can't have it both ways.
SB |
Local authorities have actually been asked to make the changes now to combat the expected increase in car journeys due to the COVID situation. | | | |
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| F*****g TfL on 23:26 - Sep 21 with 2321 views | Pendejo |
| F*****g TfL on 23:14 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
The idea is to make it less convenient to drive and safer/more attractive to walk and cycle. The shift in attitudes won't happen overnight, hence why they schemes will only be reviewed once they've had time to bed in.
We're in a climate emergency and nearly 4,000 people in London die every year because of air pollution. Yes, a few people will be inconvenienced by the changes to the road layouts, but we can't continue with the current system. That's why people need to be made to get out of their cars.
The results of this survey are quite telling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54208995 |
Not everyone nor can every journey be walked or cycled.
Is about a survey of WHY people drive, then maybe we'd find out that people are commuting long distances across London to work because the housing market is highly inflated and vastly distorted.
If emissions are the problem, then how about replacing Boris bikes with a similar car scheme whereby loads of electric cars are parked up in road for ad hoc hire?
Today near Elephant and Castle I have seen a delivery vehicle do a turn in the road on a ridiculously tight road and one of those buses that take disabled kids home from school go the wrong way up a one way street.
You can't make people get out of their cars. You can try to seduce them into alternative thoughts / actions... But you need a viable alternative first. Covid was not the time to do that as people are being discouraged from public transport and not everyone can work from home.
Imagine a supermarket delivery truck does how many deliveries in one run, each one of those had taken a car journey off the road, yet they are still trapped like the rest of us. | |
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| F*****g TfL on 23:29 - Sep 21 with 2310 views | factual_blue |
Are cyclists allowed in them? |  |
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| F*****g TfL on 23:35 - Sep 21 with 2297 views | Clapham_Junction |
| F*****g TfL on 23:26 - Sep 21 by Pendejo |
Not everyone nor can every journey be walked or cycled.
Is about a survey of WHY people drive, then maybe we'd find out that people are commuting long distances across London to work because the housing market is highly inflated and vastly distorted.
If emissions are the problem, then how about replacing Boris bikes with a similar car scheme whereby loads of electric cars are parked up in road for ad hoc hire?
Today near Elephant and Castle I have seen a delivery vehicle do a turn in the road on a ridiculously tight road and one of those buses that take disabled kids home from school go the wrong way up a one way street.
You can't make people get out of their cars. You can try to seduce them into alternative thoughts / actions... But you need a viable alternative first. Covid was not the time to do that as people are being discouraged from public transport and not everyone can work from home.
Imagine a supermarket delivery truck does how many deliveries in one run, each one of those had taken a car journey off the road, yet they are still trapped like the rest of us. |
No-one is saying every journey can be walked or cycled (this is the kind of anti-LTN propaganda that is causing such division). Those that can be are the target here, and in the long-run, those that can't (like deliveries) will be made easier by fewer cars being on the road.
Replacing all cars with electric will deal with the emissions, but not the road safety aspect. And as the population of London continues to grow, car ownership has to be reduced because there isn't enough space on the roads - especially if we want to make cycling more viable by providing segregated cycleways, which involves taking away space from cars. | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 23:47 - Sep 21 with 2276 views | StokieBlue |
| F*****g TfL on 23:25 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
Local authorities have actually been asked to make the changes now to combat the expected increase in car journeys due to the COVID situation. |
Of course, but making changes without providing an alternative is not going to work is it?
People who need to make journeys are still forced into their cars and I suspect more idling traffic is far worse for air pollution than C19 impacted lowered moving traffic.
I don't object to the goals, it's the clear muddled thinking which is weird. It makes absolutely no sense given the current situation.
SB [Post edited 21 Sep 2020 23:48]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| F*****g TfL on 00:11 - Sep 22 with 2252 views | Clapham_Junction |
| F*****g TfL on 23:47 - Sep 21 by StokieBlue |
Of course, but making changes without providing an alternative is not going to work is it?
People who need to make journeys are still forced into their cars and I suspect more idling traffic is far worse for air pollution than C19 impacted lowered moving traffic.
I don't object to the goals, it's the clear muddled thinking which is weird. It makes absolutely no sense given the current situation.
SB [Post edited 21 Sep 2020 23:48]
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Alternatives are being provided though. A fair amount of the work has been introducing new cycle lanes and making it easier/safer to cycle.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cycle-lanes-london-pop-kept-after | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 00:16 - Sep 22 with 2242 views | StokieBlue |
It's good they are adding cycle lane and as a cyclist myself I am very pleased about that but does it really address the problem?
People who usually either drive or take public transport aren't going to move on mass to cycling overnight. Even worse, people who take public transport are more likely to drive because of C19 and the advice given to avoid public transport.
Another factor is that they are closing loads of through routes which has forced even more traffic onto the main arteries when they are already crowded due to C19 and quite a few of them are at a standstill which isn't good for pollution either.
Once again, I don't disagree with the goals but the timing is wrong given the situation we currently face. It needs to be done but feel it could have been slightly delayed. Perhaps during lockdown the roads were empty and thus they decided to push ahead with changes but at the moment due to lack of public transport usage they are pretty busy.
As a longer term goal it's the right thing to do though as is the ULEZ.
SB [Post edited 22 Sep 2020 7:34]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| F*****g TfL on 08:18 - Sep 22 with 2067 views | SonOfSpock |
| F*****g TfL on 23:14 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
The idea is to make it less convenient to drive and safer/more attractive to walk and cycle. The shift in attitudes won't happen overnight, hence why they schemes will only be reviewed once they've had time to bed in.
We're in a climate emergency and nearly 4,000 people in London die every year because of air pollution. Yes, a few people will be inconvenienced by the changes to the road layouts, but we can't continue with the current system. That's why people need to be made to get out of their cars.
The results of this survey are quite telling: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54208995 |
Climate emergency...best ask China, USA,and India what they plan to do about it |  | | |
| F*****g TfL on 08:22 - Sep 22 with 2058 views | DanTheMan |
| F*****g TfL on 08:18 - Sep 22 by SonOfSpock |
Climate emergency...best ask China, USA,and India what they plan to do about it |
Ah the old "we don't need to bother because someone else is worse" argument. |  |
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| F*****g TfL on 08:28 - Sep 22 with 2044 views | BloomBlue |
TFL are a bunch of f**kwits as is the mayor. They close a road to cars/vans and are then surprised residents nearby start complaining they are overloaded with cars/vans, no shlt who would have thought that you close a road to cars/vans and they head down a different road. Most annoying thing is TLF hide it under 'the environment' and all they do is stick more cars/vans down less roads which leads to more congestion of cars not moving and engines running, hence worse for the environment
You couldn't make up the incompetency of TFL |  | | |
| F*****g TfL on 08:46 - Sep 22 with 2018 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| F*****g TfL on 22:37 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
Personally I'm all in favour. People need to be made to get out of their cars.
Sadly it seems many people think it's more important for them to be able to drive to the shops than it is to stop people dying from air pollution and reduce their carbon footprint.
The kind of language I'm seeing in our local Facebook group is reminiscent of Brexit debates. |
Generally agree but not sure now is the time to do it with people perhaps less inclined (or able due to restricted capacity) to use the buses for example. The implementation of it here has also been incredibly poor which initially led to lots of confusion - although unsurprisingly less now the cameras are up!
With us, it's just shifted the traffic to one or two (still residential) roads that must have been so negatively impacted. Our neighbour cares for somebody 4 miles away and is advised not to use public transport - it is taking her an hour or so to do that journey each way in her electric car. | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 08:47 - Sep 22 with 2016 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| F*****g TfL on 00:16 - Sep 22 by StokieBlue |
It's good they are adding cycle lane and as a cyclist myself I am very pleased about that but does it really address the problem?
People who usually either drive or take public transport aren't going to move on mass to cycling overnight. Even worse, people who take public transport are more likely to drive because of C19 and the advice given to avoid public transport.
Another factor is that they are closing loads of through routes which has forced even more traffic onto the main arteries when they are already crowded due to C19 and quite a few of them are at a standstill which isn't good for pollution either.
Once again, I don't disagree with the goals but the timing is wrong given the situation we currently face. It needs to be done but feel it could have been slightly delayed. Perhaps during lockdown the roads were empty and thus they decided to push ahead with changes but at the moment due to lack of public transport usage they are pretty busy.
As a longer term goal it's the right thing to do though as is the ULEZ.
SB [Post edited 22 Sep 2020 7:34]
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Exactly. And unfortunately the timing of this will have put otherwise sensible people off. | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 10:10 - Sep 22 with 1951 views | Pendejo |
| F*****g TfL on 23:35 - Sep 21 by Clapham_Junction |
No-one is saying every journey can be walked or cycled (this is the kind of anti-LTN propaganda that is causing such division). Those that can be are the target here, and in the long-run, those that can't (like deliveries) will be made easier by fewer cars being on the road.
Replacing all cars with electric will deal with the emissions, but not the road safety aspect. And as the population of London continues to grow, car ownership has to be reduced because there isn't enough space on the roads - especially if we want to make cycling more viable by providing segregated cycleways, which involves taking away space from cars. |
Again I say... Take some time to find out what the journey is for. Maybe, just maybe, making movement in social housing is the answer, at least for those who commute many miles. Offer them a move to a suitable home nearer their place of work, guaranteed school places for kids etc.
There's a hell of a lot of joined up thinking required to reduce traffic / emissions not just plunking a load of road closures all over the place.
I bet the best majority who used those roads were locals / delivery drivers / or people with a genuine need to be there with a motorised vehicle.
Have held off mentioning the blue light services... How much of the golden hour so you want to lose if you require the services of an ambulance / paramedic?
Also I note the slight change from climate to road safety... The volume of vehicles on the road is not inherently dangerous, bad road craft is (from ALL road users)... As is the frustration caused by these daft closures. Especially cyclists who do not stop for cars reversing whilst performing a turn in the road.
Pedal cycles, en masse, do not tend to use these local roads, they use main roads where extra space has already been created at great expense, sometimes at the expense of bus lanes... Buses mass transit of the working classes working in underpaid jobs. With full capacity 1 bus carries 70 - 80 people in a space that 10 - 15 cycles would take up.
May I take your passionate promotion / defence of them mean they were your idea? | |
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| F*****g TfL on 10:23 - Sep 22 with 1933 views | Pendejo |
Somebody needs to proof read that article. God inserted instead of got, encourage used instead of encouraged.
The picture above is not one of the pop up cycle ways this is part of the cycle super highway where A3 and A23 converge beside Kennington Park (on the left with Oval Tube station visible top left of middle). So is a poor picture for illustrative purposes, but then that's pretty standard these days. | |
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| F*****g TfL on 10:29 - Sep 22 with 1926 views | Clapham_Junction |
| F*****g TfL on 10:10 - Sep 22 by Pendejo |
Again I say... Take some time to find out what the journey is for. Maybe, just maybe, making movement in social housing is the answer, at least for those who commute many miles. Offer them a move to a suitable home nearer their place of work, guaranteed school places for kids etc.
There's a hell of a lot of joined up thinking required to reduce traffic / emissions not just plunking a load of road closures all over the place.
I bet the best majority who used those roads were locals / delivery drivers / or people with a genuine need to be there with a motorised vehicle.
Have held off mentioning the blue light services... How much of the golden hour so you want to lose if you require the services of an ambulance / paramedic?
Also I note the slight change from climate to road safety... The volume of vehicles on the road is not inherently dangerous, bad road craft is (from ALL road users)... As is the frustration caused by these daft closures. Especially cyclists who do not stop for cars reversing whilst performing a turn in the road.
Pedal cycles, en masse, do not tend to use these local roads, they use main roads where extra space has already been created at great expense, sometimes at the expense of bus lanes... Buses mass transit of the working classes working in underpaid jobs. With full capacity 1 bus carries 70 - 80 people in a space that 10 - 15 cycles would take up.
May I take your passionate promotion / defence of them mean they were your idea? |
Do you really think travel planners have not taken the time to find out what the journeys are for? TfL have published lots of evidence about this.
60% of car journeys are for shopping, leisure and personal business (not commuting): http://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-14-who-travels-by-car-in-london.pdf
A much more detailed research piece is available here: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-report-11.pdf
Councils are consulting with emergency services before implementing LTNs. The long-term aim of getting more traffic off the road should improve response times, and in areas where LTN enforcement is done via cameras rather than barriers, it should improve them immediately.
Pedal cycle journeys start in local roads - where do you think cyclists live? | | | |
| F*****g TfL on 10:35 - Sep 22 with 1915 views | Pendejo |
| F*****g TfL on 10:29 - Sep 22 by Clapham_Junction |
Do you really think travel planners have not taken the time to find out what the journeys are for? TfL have published lots of evidence about this.
60% of car journeys are for shopping, leisure and personal business (not commuting): http://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-14-who-travels-by-car-in-london.pdf
A much more detailed research piece is available here: http://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-report-11.pdf
Councils are consulting with emergency services before implementing LTNs. The long-term aim of getting more traffic off the road should improve response times, and in areas where LTN enforcement is done via cameras rather than barriers, it should improve them immediately.
Pedal cycle journeys start in local roads - where do you think cyclists live? |
Good morning.
I will read this later, I'm amazed that anyone knows why I drive when no-one has asked me.
How was the survey carried out?
When?
Where?
Sample size?
Statistics can lie with when soon applied. | |
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