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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK 07:31 - Sep 24 with 1741 viewsSteve_M





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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 07:59 - Sep 24 with 1369 viewsDubtractor

Saw this on twitter earlier.

White people, and I include myself in this, simply can't understand what it is like to be continually profiled and discriminated against on a daily basis.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 08:25 - Sep 24 with 1329 viewsSteve_M

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 07:59 - Sep 24 by Dubtractor

Saw this on twitter earlier.

White people, and I include myself in this, simply can't understand what it is like to be continually profiled and discriminated against on a daily basis.


I think that there are issues with unconscious bias training, it's very hard to show any quantifiable benefit but this is as clear an exemplar of unconscious bias as one could see.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 08:33 - Sep 24 with 1307 viewsHerbivore

And yet we have several people on here who are very angry at suggestions that racism is a problem in the UK and who think it's anti-racism that is the real danger.

Stuff like this just makes me so depressed, can you imagine having to go through being treated like that? I can't because I'm a white man who wouldn't be assumed to be a defendant if I turned up to court. Indeed I used to have to go to court semi regularly in a work capacity and not once was it assumed that I was on trial.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 08:40 - Sep 24 with 1288 viewsDarth_Koont

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 07:59 - Sep 24 by Dubtractor

Saw this on twitter earlier.

White people, and I include myself in this, simply can't understand what it is like to be continually profiled and discriminated against on a daily basis.


Indeed. And a very good read for those who continuously say the UK is the least racist country etc. therefore racism isn’t a problem or protesters don’t have anything to complain about really.

That’s a moot point when systemic racism is not really about people saying, doing or even consciously thinking racist things, as this example illustrates very well.

As you say, it’s impossible to understand (as a white man in particular) the frustration at this constant daily friction in people’s lives. So rather than leading the counter-protests and pushing the All Lives Matter nonsense perhaps those white men should wind their neck in.
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 08:51 - Sep 24 with 1259 viewsDarth_Koont

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 08:25 - Sep 24 by Steve_M

I think that there are issues with unconscious bias training, it's very hard to show any quantifiable benefit but this is as clear an exemplar of unconscious bias as one could see.


I was thinking that examples like this should be brought to the wider audience, and certainly be taught in schools.

It’s pretty obvious that those who aren’t the victims of racism, sexism or any other prejudice will have a very skewed and/or limited interpretation of what those prejudices actually are and how they manifest themselves.
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:01 - Sep 24 with 1188 viewseireblue

A couple of the responses are telling as well.

People trying to not see the problem, are part of the problem.
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:15 - Sep 24 with 1157 viewsHerbivore

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:01 - Sep 24 by eireblue

A couple of the responses are telling as well.

People trying to not see the problem, are part of the problem.


At this point if you deny racism is a significant problem you are siding with the racists. It really is that simple.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:19 - Sep 24 with 1141 viewsPendejo

Wow, surely presence of the usher should block off these molestations?

Given the nature of a court surely some sort of system of i.d. card should be in place? I recently attended an event at New Scotland Yard where my wife, the other visitors and I were issued with visitor passed that were distinct from the staff passes.
In this case all court officials; staff, prosecution and defence should receive one i.d. and visitors another. With i.d. standardised across courts as the barrister probably visits more than one court daily.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:29 - Sep 24 with 1110 viewsPinewoodblue

Subconscious profiling is everywhere. It isn’t just race related appearance, the way you speak, your age etc.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:38 - Sep 24 with 1084 viewsSteve_M

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 08:51 - Sep 24 by Darth_Koont

I was thinking that examples like this should be brought to the wider audience, and certainly be taught in schools.

It’s pretty obvious that those who aren’t the victims of racism, sexism or any other prejudice will have a very skewed and/or limited interpretation of what those prejudices actually are and how they manifest themselves.


Definitely. When I've done unconscious bias training it's being that kind of thing - although probably less egregious than that example.

I found it useful but I had gone into it with an open mind.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:42 - Sep 24 with 1071 viewsHerbivore

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:38 - Sep 24 by Steve_M

Definitely. When I've done unconscious bias training it's being that kind of thing - although probably less egregious than that example.

I found it useful but I had gone into it with an open mind.


It is useful, I've done some similar training recently. The problem is - and you see it on here - that some people don't think unconscious bias is something that applies to them, it's something other people have.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:50 - Sep 24 with 1046 viewshampstead_blue

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:38 - Sep 24 by Steve_M

Definitely. When I've done unconscious bias training it's being that kind of thing - although probably less egregious than that example.

I found it useful but I had gone into it with an open mind.


Behavioural economics and the likes of this are fascinating.

I agree that it's a useful thing to do just to give people a nudge.

Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me. Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing. Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial. Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid. Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:51 - Sep 24 with 1046 viewsSteve_M

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:29 - Sep 24 by Pinewoodblue

Subconscious profiling is everywhere. It isn’t just race related appearance, the way you speak, your age etc.


Definitely.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 11:10 - Sep 24 with 1007 viewsDarth_Koont

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:42 - Sep 24 by Herbivore

It is useful, I've done some similar training recently. The problem is - and you see it on here - that some people don't think unconscious bias is something that applies to them, it's something other people have.


Yeah it’s a bit of a circular argument when it’s called “unconscious” bias for a reason.

Similar to the example Steve shared, and giving it a football and Ipswich twist that might focus some minds, Terry Connor’s example of paying the bill is a great one. It does point at the inherent and unconscious bias that is no doubt limiting the opportunities for black coaches and managers. And might even limit the ambition of black players who could develop a parallel unconscious bias about their abilities to coach or manage. That sort of unconscious self-limiting bias has certainly been shown in studies of how girls see their abilities in relation to boys, even at a fairly young age.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/38359/connor-on-footballs-hidden-racism

Edited because I misremembered the article, the “standard joke” line seemed to stick in my mind but it was wrong to say Terry could laugh it off. He isn’t doing that.
[Post edited 24 Sep 11:31]
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 11:13 - Sep 24 with 992 viewschrisswailes

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:50 - Sep 24 by hampstead_blue

Behavioural economics and the likes of this are fascinating.

I agree that it's a useful thing to do just to give people a nudge.


But you're saying it isn't racist no?

What a surprise that your reaction to this is very different to your other thread.
[Post edited 24 Sep 11:14]

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:00 - Sep 24 with 923 viewsHerbivore

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:50 - Sep 24 by hampstead_blue

Behavioural economics and the likes of this are fascinating.

I agree that it's a useful thing to do just to give people a nudge.


You are entirely driven by your unconscious biases. If you've genuinely attended some unconscious bias training I'd suggest you weren't really paying attention.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:07 - Sep 24 with 907 viewsgiant_ullaa

gawd, thats a bludy disgrace.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:14 - Sep 24 with 884 viewseireblue

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 10:50 - Sep 24 by hampstead_blue

Behavioural economics and the likes of this are fascinating.

I agree that it's a useful thing to do just to give people a nudge.


Begs the question, why would unconscious bias exist, if there wasn’t structural and societal racism.

“I don’t doubt at all the human capacity for prejudice. But the barriers to racial reconciliation in this country don’t lurk in the unconscious. Combine the lingering effects of centuries of explicit discrimination with wildly different concepts of racial justice and you have a recipe for enduring conflict. It’s tempting to believe that there’s a psychological fix, especially when that fix dovetails with your ideology. But it’s wrong.“
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:36 - Sep 24 with 841 viewsPinewoodblue

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:14 - Sep 24 by eireblue

Begs the question, why would unconscious bias exist, if there wasn’t structural and societal racism.

“I don’t doubt at all the human capacity for prejudice. But the barriers to racial reconciliation in this country don’t lurk in the unconscious. Combine the lingering effects of centuries of explicit discrimination with wildly different concepts of racial justice and you have a recipe for enduring conflict. It’s tempting to believe that there’s a psychological fix, especially when that fix dovetails with your ideology. But it’s wrong.“


Unconscious bias isn’t exclusively a racialism problem. If racism didn’t exist there would still be other examples of unconscious bias.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:41 - Sep 24 with 828 viewsSwansea_Blue

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 12:36 - Sep 24 by Pinewoodblue

Unconscious bias isn’t exclusively a racialism problem. If racism didn’t exist there would still be other examples of unconscious bias.


Yep, it considers things like whinging birds and woofters too. I know as I've done it, and it seemed to help ne no end.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 17:19 - Sep 24 with 732 viewslowhouseblue

you would have thought that the wig would have been a clue

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-54281111

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 17:24 - Sep 24 with 714 viewsClapham_Junction

In the last few years I have been into parliament on several occasions for various events.

One of the things that stood out (and made me rather uncomfortable) is that almost all the staff doing work like cleaning, catering, cloakrooms etc were BAME, while the vast majority of MPs, their assistants and people in more senior roles were white. The divide was quite striking.

I can't help wondering whether this reinforces certain views amongst our political class and perhaps explains in part why over half of BAME MPs have complained about racism or prejudice from their counterparts.
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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 17:57 - Sep 24 with 666 viewsmonytowbray

There's been a similar Feminist awareness campaign by women musicians at venues who are assumed to be (and thus are treated as such) either girlfriends of the band or fans. The running meme comment backstage is "Oh, what band is your boyfriend in?" because staff at venues will ask that to any woman backstage.

The thing with cognitive bias is EVERYONE has it. Me. You. Even the most woke of wokest people. We make assumptions based on many things, not just race, sex or religious basis. People are often surprised to realise I'm not unemployed with my tattoos for example.

Problem is, to overcome these biases we need to acknowledge they are there to begin with, something many people don't want to face as it pretty much involves challenging the entire world view, let alone that of the individual. But also we do break through that ceiling to make any progress.

Trump meanwhile is threatening any organisations who take part in such training. Unbelievable.

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 18:04 - Sep 24 with 653 viewsSwansea_Blue

Exhibit B m'lords.

Arrest for hate crimes at football matches more than doubled last season, the vast majority for racism. Funny how making out foreigners to be the enemy has emboldened the racists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/24/hate-crimes-recorded-at-one-in-1

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A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 19:38 - Sep 24 with 593 viewslowhouseblue

A thread for people who don't think racism a big problem in the UK on 18:04 - Sep 24 by Swansea_Blue

Exhibit B m'lords.

Arrest for hate crimes at football matches more than doubled last season, the vast majority for racism. Funny how making out foreigners to be the enemy has emboldened the racists.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/24/hate-crimes-recorded-at-one-in-1


or people are no longer prepared to turn a blind eye to this stuff and more of it is being reported. in which case hurrah.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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