| The week in Tory 08:17 - Sep 29 with 6186 views | Herbivore |
And it's only Tuesday morning.
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| The week in Tory on 09:14 - Sep 29 with 1825 views | Keno |
I like Russ
#proudNONtoryvoter |  |
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| The week in Tory on 09:26 - Sep 29 with 1807 views | giant_stow |
Quite something to see listed out like that. I think the 'we're in a bind' one is my favourite. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:31]
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| The week in Tory on 09:30 - Sep 29 with 1802 views | ghostofescobar |
Very good, in a very, very bad way. Yet people will still blindly accept them. Detestable, talent-less mob. |  |
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| The week in Tory on 09:31 - Sep 29 with 1808 views | BlueBadger |
I'm sure that one of our usual crowd will be along to tell us why all this is a good thing. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:33]
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| The week in Tory on 09:36 - Sep 29 with 1779 views | BlueBadger |
| The week in Tory on 09:26 - Sep 29 by giant_stow |
Quite something to see listed out like that. I think the 'we're in a bind' one is my favourite. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:31]
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Re: points 17 and 18 - doesn't banning 'anti capitalist' educational materials severely hamper your ability to teach very large parts of British(and European/world history properly?
Just from my school days alone, my teachers would have struggled with the Reformation(both English and European and arguably slightly tenuous), the Cold War, the Industrial revolution and post-war Britain for starters. | |
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| The week in Tory on 09:40 - Sep 29 with 1767 views | hype313 |
Hopefully they will start to eat eachother alive (1922 already started) and we end up with a vote of no confidence and we can get some kind of National government cobbled together so we have people looking out for the countries interests, not their mates.
I know I'm living in la la land but you have to optimistic in these times, otherwise we might aswell all bag our bags and go home. |  |
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| The week in Tory on 09:43 - Sep 29 with 1766 views | Swansea_Blue |
They still can't get anything right and keep squabbling amongst themselves even with an 80 seat majority. But then I suppose they've always had internal struggles. This is by far the least capable bunch of them in my lifetime though. Absolutely useless. But then what do you expect for a kleptocracy propped up by yes men/women and steered from the shadows by that psychopath Wormtongue, er sorry I mean Cummings.
Far better broadband to help more people work remotely and a steadier hand of the state to support struggling people and industries don't look like a losing hand now do they, even if Labour had their own share of dodgy characters. |  |
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| The week in Tory on 09:46 - Sep 29 with 1753 views | BlueBadger |
| The week in Tory on 09:43 - Sep 29 by Swansea_Blue |
They still can't get anything right and keep squabbling amongst themselves even with an 80 seat majority. But then I suppose they've always had internal struggles. This is by far the least capable bunch of them in my lifetime though. Absolutely useless. But then what do you expect for a kleptocracy propped up by yes men/women and steered from the shadows by that psychopath Wormtongue, er sorry I mean Cummings.
Far better broadband to help more people work remotely and a steadier hand of the state to support struggling people and industries don't look like a losing hand now do they, even if Labour had their own share of dodgy characters. |
You still hear the 'yes but Corbyn cry' from idiots though. I'm no fan of the Dear Leader, but it's hard to find ways in which he'd have b*ggered things up worse, in part because I suspect because any Labour 'win' would in truth have required a cross-party coalition, meaning that some competent people might have actually made it to the front bench. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:38]
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| The week in Tory on 09:48 - Sep 29 with 1753 views | hype313 |
| The week in Tory on 09:46 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
You still hear the 'yes but Corbyn cry' from idiots though. I'm no fan of the Dear Leader, but it's hard to find ways in which he'd have b*ggered things up worse, in part because I suspect because any Labour 'win' would in truth have required a cross-party coalition, meaning that some competent people might have actually made it to the front bench. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:38]
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This has aged well.
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| The week in Tory on 09:54 - Sep 29 with 1741 views | BlueBadger |
| The week in Tory on 09:48 - Sep 29 by hype313 |
This has aged well.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - imagine how different the country would look now if only Milliband could eat a f*cking bacon sandwich properly.
No Brexit vote and accompanying chaos, Tories splintering due to infighting and appealing to ever-for extremist elements to keep Farage away.
Hell, you could probably make a case for saying that populists across the world would have had a harder time because there would have been no Brexit vote for them to take inspiration from.. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:55]
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| The week in Tory on 09:54 - Sep 29 with 1734 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The week in Tory on 09:46 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
You still hear the 'yes but Corbyn cry' from idiots though. I'm no fan of the Dear Leader, but it's hard to find ways in which he'd have b*ggered things up worse, in part because I suspect because any Labour 'win' would in truth have required a cross-party coalition, meaning that some competent people might have actually made it to the front bench. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:38]
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No I wasn't a fan of Corbyn or some of the herbets around him either. But yeah, hard to see how it could be worse in terms of outcomes or morally. I'd rather a government spends lots of taxpayers money on genuinely trying to improve things for taxpayers rather than giving it to their mates to not deliver public services. | |
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| The week in Tory on 10:01 - Sep 29 with 1710 views | Herbivore |
| The week in Tory on 09:26 - Sep 29 by giant_stow |
Quite something to see listed out like that. I think the 'we're in a bind' one is my favourite. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:31]
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For anyone who isn't a sociopath, it's a no brainer between saving the country and saving the Tory Party. The problem is there are vanishingly few Tory MPs left who aren't sociopaths now. | |
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| The week in Tory on 10:01 - Sep 29 with 1711 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The week in Tory on 09:54 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
I've said it before and I'll say it again - imagine how different the country would look now if only Milliband could eat a f*cking bacon sandwich properly.
No Brexit vote and accompanying chaos, Tories splintering due to infighting and appealing to ever-for extremist elements to keep Farage away.
Hell, you could probably make a case for saying that populists across the world would have had a harder time because there would have been no Brexit vote for them to take inspiration from.. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:55]
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I think I voted Lib Dem that time, so am probably part of the problem. But completely agree. The Ed Stone didn't do him any favours either. | |
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| The week in Tory on 10:06 - Sep 29 with 1698 views | Herbivore |
| The week in Tory on 10:01 - Sep 29 by Swansea_Blue |
I think I voted Lib Dem that time, so am probably part of the problem. But completely agree. The Ed Stone didn't do him any favours either. |
I voted Green in 2015 but was guilty of voting Lib Dem in 2010 when Nick Clegg sacrificed the future of his party for 5 minutes of power. I quite liked Ed Milliband but he ended up getting too caught up in the anti-migrant rhetoric of the time and pledged to be tough on immigration rather than extolling the benefits of an open and welcoming country. That put me off to be honest, he was never going to out-Tory the Tories on hating brown people so he should have taken a different tack to them entirely. | |
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| The week in Tory on 10:06 - Sep 29 with 1700 views | Guthrum |
| The week in Tory on 09:43 - Sep 29 by Swansea_Blue |
They still can't get anything right and keep squabbling amongst themselves even with an 80 seat majority. But then I suppose they've always had internal struggles. This is by far the least capable bunch of them in my lifetime though. Absolutely useless. But then what do you expect for a kleptocracy propped up by yes men/women and steered from the shadows by that psychopath Wormtongue, er sorry I mean Cummings.
Far better broadband to help more people work remotely and a steadier hand of the state to support struggling people and industries don't look like a losing hand now do they, even if Labour had their own share of dodgy characters. |
Ah, you're calling him that, too. Almost unavoidable comparison. |  |
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| The week in Tory on 10:12 - Sep 29 with 1688 views | BlueBadger |
| The week in Tory on 10:06 - Sep 29 by Herbivore |
I voted Green in 2015 but was guilty of voting Lib Dem in 2010 when Nick Clegg sacrificed the future of his party for 5 minutes of power. I quite liked Ed Milliband but he ended up getting too caught up in the anti-migrant rhetoric of the time and pledged to be tough on immigration rather than extolling the benefits of an open and welcoming country. That put me off to be honest, he was never going to out-Tory the Tories on hating brown people so he should have taken a different tack to them entirely. |
Yeah, I think that was his main downfall. He's clearly too decent a bloke to go down the full-Tory route of 'blame foreigners' but ultimately lacked the courage of his convictions. The other week when he named Boris in parliament shows how effective he could have been if he'd have actually GONE for Call Me Dave(the Paul Jewell of politics) rather than try and play him at his game. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 10:24]
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| The week in Tory on 10:21 - Sep 29 with 1665 views | Darth_Koont |
| The week in Tory on 09:46 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
You still hear the 'yes but Corbyn cry' from idiots though. I'm no fan of the Dear Leader, but it's hard to find ways in which he'd have b*ggered things up worse, in part because I suspect because any Labour 'win' would in truth have required a cross-party coalition, meaning that some competent people might have actually made it to the front bench. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:38]
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The “Yes but Corbyn” stuff was of course built on the same lies and agenda the centrists pushed themselves. So let’s be honest here.
My contempt for the mainstream power and mainstream media in this country is boundless. This has been 40-odd years in the making while people have just noddingly waved through the politics of self-interest and division because anything else would be “far-left”. |  |
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| The week in Tory on 10:22 - Sep 29 with 1663 views | Herbivore |
| The week in Tory on 10:12 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
Yeah, I think that was his main downfall. He's clearly too decent a bloke to go down the full-Tory route of 'blame foreigners' but ultimately lacked the courage of his convictions. The other week when he named Boris in parliament shows how effective he could have been if he'd have actually GONE for Call Me Dave(the Paul Jewell of politics) rather than try and play him at his game. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 10:24]
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His evisceration of Johnson was a sight to behold. I guess the pressure was off to some extent and I imagine that a cute fluffy kitten would be able to savage Johnson at the despatch box, whereas for all his faults (and there are many) Call Me Dave could speak in full, coherent sentences. That immediately makes him an infinitely tougher opponent than Johnson. That said, he should have gone in harder. He ended up fighting that election on ground the Tories wanted to fight it on and he couldn't impress enough fighting it that way. | |
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| The week in Tory on 10:25 - Sep 29 with 1658 views | BlueBadger |
| The week in Tory on 10:22 - Sep 29 by Herbivore |
His evisceration of Johnson was a sight to behold. I guess the pressure was off to some extent and I imagine that a cute fluffy kitten would be able to savage Johnson at the despatch box, whereas for all his faults (and there are many) Call Me Dave could speak in full, coherent sentences. That immediately makes him an infinitely tougher opponent than Johnson. That said, he should have gone in harder. He ended up fighting that election on ground the Tories wanted to fight it on and he couldn't impress enough fighting it that way. |
At that point there'd been five years of horrific austerity, broken promises and pretty much anyone below the 50k+ tax bracket had suffered in some way or other. That should have been at the front and centre of everything he was doing. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 10:32]
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| The week in Tory on 10:39 - Sep 29 with 1624 views | Darth_Koont |
| The week in Tory on 10:12 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
Yeah, I think that was his main downfall. He's clearly too decent a bloke to go down the full-Tory route of 'blame foreigners' but ultimately lacked the courage of his convictions. The other week when he named Boris in parliament shows how effective he could have been if he'd have actually GONE for Call Me Dave(the Paul Jewell of politics) rather than try and play him at his game. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 10:24]
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Hang on.
I agree with you but how does that square with Starmer and Labour now trying to “out-Tory the Tories” on opportunity, family and nation?
How is that not confirming the agenda for the Tories and playing a game they can’t win? | |
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| The week in Tory on 11:28 - Sep 29 with 1562 views | Darth_Koont |
| The week in Tory on 10:25 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
At that point there'd been five years of horrific austerity, broken promises and pretty much anyone below the 50k+ tax bracket had suffered in some way or other. That should have been at the front and centre of everything he was doing. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 10:32]
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Same response as before.
You might be right that the answer lies somewhere between Corbyn and Starmer like an Ed Milliband who sticks to socialist or at least social-democratic principles. But the current approach is exactly the empty, centre-right politics that have plagued the opposition and the country for decades.
The answer to a decade of austerity and Tory mismanagement, let alone the self-imposed challenges caused by Covid, Brexit and a lack of planning/investment in an inevitable future, is “opportunity, family and nation”!!?
Jesus wept. These clowns need to get a grip. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 12:24]
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| The week in Tory on 11:53 - Sep 29 with 1515 views | tractordownsouth |
| The week in Tory on 10:25 - Sep 29 by BlueBadger |
At that point there'd been five years of horrific austerity, broken promises and pretty much anyone below the 50k+ tax bracket had suffered in some way or other. That should have been at the front and centre of everything he was doing. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 10:32]
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I think he never quite decided whether he wanted to be seen as anti-austerity or be seen to cut the deficit more effectively than Cameron. I disagree with Darth on a lot of stuff, but I think his point about outflanking holds water in this particular instance, as the 3 main issues of that election (cutting the deficit, anti-austerity and immigration) were championed more effectively by the Tories, SNP and UKIP respectively.
To be honest, I think he lost that election quite early in his term as LOTO. From day 1, he never properly challenged the myth of Labour causing the financial crisis. He probably felt he didn't need to as he was leading in the polls consistently till 2014. But come the election, with the recession still in the public memory, it was easy for the Tories to push the myth again and scare the voters into re-electing Cameron. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:54]
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| The week in Tory on 12:19 - Sep 29 with 1480 views | Darth_Koont |
| The week in Tory on 11:53 - Sep 29 by tractordownsouth |
I think he never quite decided whether he wanted to be seen as anti-austerity or be seen to cut the deficit more effectively than Cameron. I disagree with Darth on a lot of stuff, but I think his point about outflanking holds water in this particular instance, as the 3 main issues of that election (cutting the deficit, anti-austerity and immigration) were championed more effectively by the Tories, SNP and UKIP respectively.
To be honest, I think he lost that election quite early in his term as LOTO. From day 1, he never properly challenged the myth of Labour causing the financial crisis. He probably felt he didn't need to as he was leading in the polls consistently till 2014. But come the election, with the recession still in the public memory, it was easy for the Tories to push the myth again and scare the voters into re-electing Cameron. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:54]
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Indeed.
Although it’s an outflanking pattern that has become even more established since. And one Cummings et al know how to co-opt as they did with Leave and then the Brexit Party. They won’t hesitate to do the same with the post-Brexit culture war stuff either - and they’ll be far better at it because they mostly believe in it.
If Labour is going to get back its traditional support levels and especially make any dent in Scotland (or have any hope of getting SNP support in a minority government) they need to be absolutely hammering the government on their record. At the same time as they present an attractive and more hopeful alternative. In doing so, they can co-opt the many progressive voices and movements in the UK from the trade unionists and those who Corbyn brought into Labour and politics to the young, BLM, XR and even Remainers who can be persuaded that centrism holds little to no solutions.
You’ll disagree with me on why they won’t do that. But I think it’s about aligning the party to what best serves them as individuals. Cosying up to the establishment and soft power seems to be a primary objective of too many of the Labour right as we’ve seen only too well with where Corbyn’s primary adversaries have ended up when their bids to oust him failed. But any analysis of the Tory opposition over the past few decades from Blair and Clegg to Umunna and Watson etc. shows the same pattern. Among the supposedly professional and grown-up politicians this is ultimately about non-opposition and non-change. And repeatedly left wondering why the country is shifting right and people still vote Tory by their millions. | |
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| The week in Tory on 12:28 - Sep 29 with 1457 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The week in Tory on 12:19 - Sep 29 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Although it’s an outflanking pattern that has become even more established since. And one Cummings et al know how to co-opt as they did with Leave and then the Brexit Party. They won’t hesitate to do the same with the post-Brexit culture war stuff either - and they’ll be far better at it because they mostly believe in it.
If Labour is going to get back its traditional support levels and especially make any dent in Scotland (or have any hope of getting SNP support in a minority government) they need to be absolutely hammering the government on their record. At the same time as they present an attractive and more hopeful alternative. In doing so, they can co-opt the many progressive voices and movements in the UK from the trade unionists and those who Corbyn brought into Labour and politics to the young, BLM, XR and even Remainers who can be persuaded that centrism holds little to no solutions.
You’ll disagree with me on why they won’t do that. But I think it’s about aligning the party to what best serves them as individuals. Cosying up to the establishment and soft power seems to be a primary objective of too many of the Labour right as we’ve seen only too well with where Corbyn’s primary adversaries have ended up when their bids to oust him failed. But any analysis of the Tory opposition over the past few decades from Blair and Clegg to Umunna and Watson etc. shows the same pattern. Among the supposedly professional and grown-up politicians this is ultimately about non-opposition and non-change. And repeatedly left wondering why the country is shifting right and people still vote Tory by their millions. |
Playing the long game then? As I think you're talking about needing a fundamental shift in values that have been embedded over several decades. Potentially high reward, but very, very difficult to achieve. | |
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| The week in Tory on 12:30 - Sep 29 with 1451 views | Clapham_Junction |
| The week in Tory on 11:53 - Sep 29 by tractordownsouth |
I think he never quite decided whether he wanted to be seen as anti-austerity or be seen to cut the deficit more effectively than Cameron. I disagree with Darth on a lot of stuff, but I think his point about outflanking holds water in this particular instance, as the 3 main issues of that election (cutting the deficit, anti-austerity and immigration) were championed more effectively by the Tories, SNP and UKIP respectively.
To be honest, I think he lost that election quite early in his term as LOTO. From day 1, he never properly challenged the myth of Labour causing the financial crisis. He probably felt he didn't need to as he was leading in the polls consistently till 2014. But come the election, with the recession still in the public memory, it was easy for the Tories to push the myth again and scare the voters into re-electing Cameron. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 11:54]
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Your second paragraph is spot on. The failure to fight back against the 'Labour ruined the economy' myth was incredibly frustrating and had me yelling at the TV on a regular basis during the campaign. |  | | |
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