| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 08:34 - Sep 29 with 1567 views | hampstead_blue |
How many clubs are run in anything like a sustainable way?
Football needs to use this time to have a very good look at itself and stop pouring money into players pockets and make sure they can afford to keep the lights on instead.
“It’s certainly destroying my enjoyment of the game of football,” said Roy Hodgson. “You’re ruining football for everybody,” fumed Jamie Carragher. “The game’s gone,” tweeted Andros Townsend. “Maybe we can all get together and stop it,” urged Steve Bruce.
Each of these has happily taken from the game. They and their kin are part of the problem in making football unsustainable.
The lower leagues are less to blame but the problem of wage inflation has ruined some of them and will have more in it's sights in the near future.
Very sad that the small clubs will suffer when the overpaid Prem and Champ players drive home in comfort. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 08:46 - Sep 29 with 1536 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 08:34 - Sep 29 by hampstead_blue |
How many clubs are run in anything like a sustainable way?
Football needs to use this time to have a very good look at itself and stop pouring money into players pockets and make sure they can afford to keep the lights on instead.
“It’s certainly destroying my enjoyment of the game of football,” said Roy Hodgson. “You’re ruining football for everybody,” fumed Jamie Carragher. “The game’s gone,” tweeted Andros Townsend. “Maybe we can all get together and stop it,” urged Steve Bruce.
Each of these has happily taken from the game. They and their kin are part of the problem in making football unsustainable.
The lower leagues are less to blame but the problem of wage inflation has ruined some of them and will have more in it's sights in the near future.
Very sad that the small clubs will suffer when the overpaid Prem and Champ players drive home in comfort. |
It's called Capitalism, if you believe football's out of control and that very few reap the rewards of all the money sloshing around, and you want some sort of more equitable system of distribution money in football, then you should also apply that logic to the rest of society as well... |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:00 - Sep 29 with 1510 views | itfcjoe |
It's always the same, clubs happy to pull the ladder up behind them - I can see why the PL wants to keep it's money - and personally I'd let them.
Any money the EFL receive from the PL will be laced with unpalatable conditions, but the EFL needs Governement help to continue trying to get it's house in order - the Govt are the ones not allowing fans in now. |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:00 - Sep 29 with 1502 views | jayessess |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 08:34 - Sep 29 by hampstead_blue |
How many clubs are run in anything like a sustainable way?
Football needs to use this time to have a very good look at itself and stop pouring money into players pockets and make sure they can afford to keep the lights on instead.
“It’s certainly destroying my enjoyment of the game of football,” said Roy Hodgson. “You’re ruining football for everybody,” fumed Jamie Carragher. “The game’s gone,” tweeted Andros Townsend. “Maybe we can all get together and stop it,” urged Steve Bruce.
Each of these has happily taken from the game. They and their kin are part of the problem in making football unsustainable.
The lower leagues are less to blame but the problem of wage inflation has ruined some of them and will have more in it's sights in the near future.
Very sad that the small clubs will suffer when the overpaid Prem and Champ players drive home in comfort. |
Football clubs aren't run sustainably because of the nature of the business. The further up the Pyramid you get, the more money there is, to get further up the Pyramid you need to be competitive, to be competitive you have to compete with other clubs for better players. This leaves everyone an incentive to spend the absolute maximum they can to be successful, even if that endangers the financial stability of the football club.
One club can't put a stop to it, because they're locked in to the system. Spend less, get relegated, have less.
The people with a genuine interest in stopping it, football supporters, only seem to switch on when their club goes bust and spend the rest of their time howling for new signings.
The system requires root and branch re-design, with strict limits on wage spending and non-profit status for all clubs. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:52]
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:02 - Sep 29 with 1498 views | Basuco |
The Premier League are very happy to pay increasing amounts of money to agents to make deals happen, but not willing to support the football league. If John Motson was correct when he said that a highly respected and prominent agent told him "half the £1.1 billion spent by Premier League clubs in a January transfer window would be unaccounted in accounts, that shows in excess of £1 billion each year is paid to agents and players as part of transfer deals, every year. |  | | |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:03 - Sep 29 with 1493 views | Guthrum |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 08:46 - Sep 29 by Ewan_Oozami |
It's called Capitalism, if you believe football's out of control and that very few reap the rewards of all the money sloshing around, and you want some sort of more equitable system of distribution money in football, then you should also apply that logic to the rest of society as well... |
Both have warped from being a functional structure developed to fund and nurture particular activities into a means of people skimming a quick buck irrespective of the damage caused. |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:05 - Sep 29 with 1486 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:00 - Sep 29 by jayessess |
Football clubs aren't run sustainably because of the nature of the business. The further up the Pyramid you get, the more money there is, to get further up the Pyramid you need to be competitive, to be competitive you have to compete with other clubs for better players. This leaves everyone an incentive to spend the absolute maximum they can to be successful, even if that endangers the financial stability of the football club.
One club can't put a stop to it, because they're locked in to the system. Spend less, get relegated, have less.
The people with a genuine interest in stopping it, football supporters, only seem to switch on when their club goes bust and spend the rest of their time howling for new signings.
The system requires root and branch re-design, with strict limits on wage spending and non-profit status for all clubs. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:52]
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L1 and L2 clubs generally are run fairly sustainably - those that have gone out of business have been because of rogue individuals. Any business is going to be in deep bother if they lose their ability to generate any revenue (and the revenue they do have is because of fan goodwill). |  | | |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:06 - Sep 29 with 1482 views | homer_123 |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:05 - Sep 29 by tractorboy1978 |
L1 and L2 clubs generally are run fairly sustainably - those that have gone out of business have been because of rogue individuals. Any business is going to be in deep bother if they lose their ability to generate any revenue (and the revenue they do have is because of fan goodwill). |
Depends on your definition of 'sustainable'. |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:12 - Sep 29 with 1451 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:00 - Sep 29 by itfcjoe |
It's always the same, clubs happy to pull the ladder up behind them - I can see why the PL wants to keep it's money - and personally I'd let them.
Any money the EFL receive from the PL will be laced with unpalatable conditions, but the EFL needs Governement help to continue trying to get it's house in order - the Govt are the ones not allowing fans in now. |
I agree with some of your points Joe but it isn't the Government stopping fans attending....it's a pandemic that's stopping fans going to see their teams
I honestly don't know what the answer is but this "it's in the Government's hands" isn't the only solution to a multi-decade issue
I'm lost with it all but I don't know how people can argue that one contributing factor is the solution
Primarily,football needs to save itself and like I keep saying , it's eating itself and again I don't have all the answers but the general "fix" is going to be ensuring governing bodies (albeit the FA and Premier League ) somehow work together for the future of the game |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:12 - Sep 29 with 1452 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Not sure what he means by;
"clubs further down the ladder, who rely disproportionately on gate income for their solvency."
Yes, lower league clubs main source of income is gate receipts, but why is that seen as 'disproportionate'? Its the football model that has existed for 100+ years. |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:13 - Sep 29 with 1445 views | Guthrum |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:00 - Sep 29 by jayessess |
Football clubs aren't run sustainably because of the nature of the business. The further up the Pyramid you get, the more money there is, to get further up the Pyramid you need to be competitive, to be competitive you have to compete with other clubs for better players. This leaves everyone an incentive to spend the absolute maximum they can to be successful, even if that endangers the financial stability of the football club.
One club can't put a stop to it, because they're locked in to the system. Spend less, get relegated, have less.
The people with a genuine interest in stopping it, football supporters, only seem to switch on when their club goes bust and spend the rest of their time howling for new signings.
The system requires root and branch re-design, with strict limits on wage spending and non-profit status for all clubs. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 9:52]
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Skill at recruitment and at handling limited resources has been replaced by simply attempting to buy (perceived) talent and throwing it at the problem. If it doesn't work, buy more, or sack the manager and get someone new to buy a fresh lot.
"But the football is so much better!" Is it? Unless you're a fan of the top four in the Prem, is it much fun to see them every week thumping teams which struggle to scrape a dozen wins all season (i.e. over half the division), plus dominating both major cups? | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:14 - Sep 29 with 1442 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:12 - Sep 29 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Not sure what he means by;
"clubs further down the ladder, who rely disproportionately on gate income for their solvency."
Yes, lower league clubs main source of income is gate receipts, but why is that seen as 'disproportionate'? Its the football model that has existed for 100+ years. |
As opposed to PL clubs where the commercial revenue/TV money/prize money dwarfs gate receipts. | | | |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:17 - Sep 29 with 1434 views | hampstead_blue |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:02 - Sep 29 by Basuco |
The Premier League are very happy to pay increasing amounts of money to agents to make deals happen, but not willing to support the football league. If John Motson was correct when he said that a highly respected and prominent agent told him "half the £1.1 billion spent by Premier League clubs in a January transfer window would be unaccounted in accounts, that shows in excess of £1 billion each year is paid to agents and players as part of transfer deals, every year. |
Wow!
It is the small clubs whom I feel for. Those who are run as well as they can and don't splash it up the wall when and if they get a few £.
Should the Gov step in and help with tax payers cash? No. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:17 - Sep 29 with 1430 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:14 - Sep 29 by tractorboy1978 |
As opposed to PL clubs where the commercial revenue/TV money/prize money dwarfs gate receipts. |
Yes, I see that comparison. But I don't think that makes the level of gate receipt income in the EFL disproportionate. | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:30 - Sep 29 with 1401 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:02 - Sep 29 by Basuco |
The Premier League are very happy to pay increasing amounts of money to agents to make deals happen, but not willing to support the football league. If John Motson was correct when he said that a highly respected and prominent agent told him "half the £1.1 billion spent by Premier League clubs in a January transfer window would be unaccounted in accounts, that shows in excess of £1 billion each year is paid to agents and players as part of transfer deals, every year. |
I'm not saying it will, or should happen, but if the Premier League players all took a temporary 5% annual pay cut, that would pay the £200m bill that we are told the EFL needs to survive for the next year.
FIVE PERCENT
Even a 2.5% cut by the Premier League players would provide £100m.
If the Championship players took a 10% wage cut, that would reduce the Championship wage bill be c.£80m alone.
...and people wonder why I advocate contributions from players who can afford those levels of temporary pay cuts.
(and before anyone asks, I have taken a 10% temporary pay cut in the past to assist the business I worked for). | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:41 - Sep 29 with 1355 views | itfcjoe |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:12 - Sep 29 by Metal_Hacker |
I agree with some of your points Joe but it isn't the Government stopping fans attending....it's a pandemic that's stopping fans going to see their teams
I honestly don't know what the answer is but this "it's in the Government's hands" isn't the only solution to a multi-decade issue
I'm lost with it all but I don't know how people can argue that one contributing factor is the solution
Primarily,football needs to save itself and like I keep saying , it's eating itself and again I don't have all the answers but the general "fix" is going to be ensuring governing bodies (albeit the FA and Premier League ) somehow work together for the future of the game |
Last week we had test events with 1000 fans attending games without incidince, this was due to be ramped up this week, and would have continued to be so with clubs working in association with the Stadium Advisory Groups who are the ones who administer safety certs for games.
And then, a blanket ban is made on fans attending - doesn't matter how safe things are.
Then we have the ludicrous situation last night where the games were brought forward 15 minutes so that fans can watch them in the busy, indoor pubs without missing the end of the game as they shut at 10pm, whilst fans can't go and sit in an outdoor stadium, in their household bubbles and watch it | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:42 - Sep 29 with 1351 views | Radlett_blue |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:12 - Sep 29 by Metal_Hacker |
I agree with some of your points Joe but it isn't the Government stopping fans attending....it's a pandemic that's stopping fans going to see their teams
I honestly don't know what the answer is but this "it's in the Government's hands" isn't the only solution to a multi-decade issue
I'm lost with it all but I don't know how people can argue that one contributing factor is the solution
Primarily,football needs to save itself and like I keep saying , it's eating itself and again I don't have all the answers but the general "fix" is going to be ensuring governing bodies (albeit the FA and Premier League ) somehow work together for the future of the game |
A sensible post, but the PL clubs - especially the big ones - have their own agenda & they are very unlikely to see the need to help the rest of the English football pyramid, beyond some token gesture involving "solidarity payments". It's all well & good to say the PL can afford it, but why should they effectively help Championship clubs pay their unsustainable wage bills? |  |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:43 - Sep 29 with 1344 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:41 - Sep 29 by itfcjoe |
Last week we had test events with 1000 fans attending games without incidince, this was due to be ramped up this week, and would have continued to be so with clubs working in association with the Stadium Advisory Groups who are the ones who administer safety certs for games.
And then, a blanket ban is made on fans attending - doesn't matter how safe things are.
Then we have the ludicrous situation last night where the games were brought forward 15 minutes so that fans can watch them in the busy, indoor pubs without missing the end of the game as they shut at 10pm, whilst fans can't go and sit in an outdoor stadium, in their household bubbles and watch it |
Again I can't argue the fact BUT it's not the Government who are stopping fans going ...it's Covid
Yeah I know it's craziness gone crazy as you've said BUT.... | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:47 - Sep 29 with 1330 views | itfcjoe |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:43 - Sep 29 by Metal_Hacker |
Again I can't argue the fact BUT it's not the Government who are stopping fans going ...it's Covid
Yeah I know it's craziness gone crazy as you've said BUT.... |
Without the Government intervention last week there would be fans in the stadium though.
If they are to single out an industry, like they have sport compared to say hospitality, then they need to be ensuring that industry doesn't collapse | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:47 - Sep 29 with 1331 views | Basuco |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:30 - Sep 29 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I'm not saying it will, or should happen, but if the Premier League players all took a temporary 5% annual pay cut, that would pay the £200m bill that we are told the EFL needs to survive for the next year.
FIVE PERCENT
Even a 2.5% cut by the Premier League players would provide £100m.
If the Championship players took a 10% wage cut, that would reduce the Championship wage bill be c.£80m alone.
...and people wonder why I advocate contributions from players who can afford those levels of temporary pay cuts.
(and before anyone asks, I have taken a 10% temporary pay cut in the past to assist the business I worked for). |
What should happen, but won't, is for the FA to act as a clearing house on transfers, all transfer money is paid to them and they then pass it on to the selling club. Full transparency is needed on transfers. Cut out the dodgy hidden payments so that when club A sells a player all, not just a small part of it, goes to the selling club. All English football has to do is reduce/cut out, the money being siphoned out of the game. Premier League clubs would not lose any income with this model. | | | |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:51 - Sep 29 with 1317 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:47 - Sep 29 by itfcjoe |
Without the Government intervention last week there would be fans in the stadium though.
If they are to single out an industry, like they have sport compared to say hospitality, then they need to be ensuring that industry doesn't collapse |
It's a massive convoluted subject isn't it and I don't think , like I've already said ,anyone has the ultimate answer to the problem
In one sense I agree the Government has to assist perhaps in some fashion to save the game as we know it but if that were to happen ,for me anyway , there'd have to be some stringent guidelines set in place to ensure the pyramid as we keep referring to is fit for purpose and fully sustainable because where I'm sitting it's eating itself up regardless of the who's not helping who , it's eating itself up ...and fast | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:57 - Sep 29 with 1299 views | jayessess |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:05 - Sep 29 by tractorboy1978 |
L1 and L2 clubs generally are run fairly sustainably - those that have gone out of business have been because of rogue individuals. Any business is going to be in deep bother if they lose their ability to generate any revenue (and the revenue they do have is because of fan goodwill). |
I think it's difficult to describe L1 and L2 as being run sustainably. Prior to the pandemic, the last accounts for League 2 show 20 out of 24 clubs making a loss. The average loss for a League 2 club in 2019 was £802,000. | |
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| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 10:00 - Sep 29 with 1297 views | CrayonKing |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:30 - Sep 29 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I'm not saying it will, or should happen, but if the Premier League players all took a temporary 5% annual pay cut, that would pay the £200m bill that we are told the EFL needs to survive for the next year.
FIVE PERCENT
Even a 2.5% cut by the Premier League players would provide £100m.
If the Championship players took a 10% wage cut, that would reduce the Championship wage bill be c.£80m alone.
...and people wonder why I advocate contributions from players who can afford those levels of temporary pay cuts.
(and before anyone asks, I have taken a 10% temporary pay cut in the past to assist the business I worked for). |
I did wonder whether a temporary footballer's tax of e.g. an extra 5% on footballer's wages over a certain threshold to go into a lower-league sustainability fund might be worth looking at.
That way those who benefit most from the game give the most back. Would be nice to claw back some of that agent's money that corrupts the game too but that seems like pie-in-the-sky.
Clubs would have to abide by FFP in order to qualify for assistance and show that they'll be sustainable once crowds return, otherwise you end up subsidising billionaire owners and helping fund Derby's excess. |  | | |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 10:17 - Sep 29 with 1265 views | CrayonKing |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 08:46 - Sep 29 by Ewan_Oozami |
It's called Capitalism, if you believe football's out of control and that very few reap the rewards of all the money sloshing around, and you want some sort of more equitable system of distribution money in football, then you should also apply that logic to the rest of society as well... |
I always found it ironic that the capitalist USA has the most socialist-style sports associations, with salary caps and draft rules all aimed at levelling the playing field between teams. Whereas socialist Europe tends to be survival-of-the fittest when it comes to football. | | | |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 10:37 - Sep 29 with 1232 views | Radlett_blue |
| Jonathan Liew sums up the state of UK football in 2020 on 09:47 - Sep 29 by Basuco |
What should happen, but won't, is for the FA to act as a clearing house on transfers, all transfer money is paid to them and they then pass it on to the selling club. Full transparency is needed on transfers. Cut out the dodgy hidden payments so that when club A sells a player all, not just a small part of it, goes to the selling club. All English football has to do is reduce/cut out, the money being siphoned out of the game. Premier League clubs would not lose any income with this model. |
Agreed, but that's been an issue for years which the Fa or PL are unwilling to address. I guess the big boys will block it as it might stop them signing the top players. | |
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