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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns 20:55 - Oct 11 with 10692 viewsStokieBlue

Looks like business bosses are going to put forward a legal challenge to prevent any closure of hospitality venues:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/11/england-hospitality-bosses-lega

On the same day scientists warn we are on the way to exponential growth:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/11/uk-is-at-tipping-point-of-covid-cr

Without a track and trace system which is fully functional and working there seems little choice but to lockdown.

SB

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 20:57 - Oct 11 with 3209 viewsDanTheMan

Feels like it's going to get nasty. Liverpool looks to be going straight to the "tier 3" restrictions which I was fully expecting to be what Nottingham was getting but apparently not.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 21:03 - Oct 11 with 3180 viewsStokieBlue

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 20:57 - Oct 11 by DanTheMan

Feels like it's going to get nasty. Liverpool looks to be going straight to the "tier 3" restrictions which I was fully expecting to be what Nottingham was getting but apparently not.


Liverpool almost certainly looks to be getting Tier 3.

I am surprised Nottingham isn't heading that way as well - saw it was the highest infection rate in the country now with 800 per 100k today.

As you say, it's going to get very nasty if these legal challenges are put forward. It's already gotten messy in Madrid with the city rejecting the restrictions via the local courts and the government getting angry and just declaring emergency powers to override the court decision.

SB

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 21:21 - Oct 11 with 3144 viewsDanTheMan

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 21:03 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue

Liverpool almost certainly looks to be getting Tier 3.

I am surprised Nottingham isn't heading that way as well - saw it was the highest infection rate in the country now with 800 per 100k today.

As you say, it's going to get very nasty if these legal challenges are put forward. It's already gotten messy in Madrid with the city rejecting the restrictions via the local courts and the government getting angry and just declaring emergency powers to override the court decision.

SB


My gut feeling is this would all be a lot smoother of they released the reasoning / evidence behind the decisions they're making.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 23:54 - Oct 11 with 3032 viewsGuthrum

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 21:21 - Oct 11 by DanTheMan

My gut feeling is this would all be a lot smoother of they released the reasoning / evidence behind the decisions they're making.


That might show they ought to be tightening things a lot more. Which would land them with a lot more flak and a back-bench rebellion at any suggestion they might do so.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 00:06 - Oct 12 with 3013 viewsvapour_trail

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 23:54 - Oct 11 by Guthrum

That might show they ought to be tightening things a lot more. Which would land them with a lot more flak and a back-bench rebellion at any suggestion they might do so.


It’s the other issue that’s key here guthers, the libetarians on the back benches will go mental if the tories aren’t tories.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 00:36 - Oct 12 with 2997 viewsKievthegreat

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 21:03 - Oct 11 by StokieBlue

Liverpool almost certainly looks to be getting Tier 3.

I am surprised Nottingham isn't heading that way as well - saw it was the highest infection rate in the country now with 800 per 100k today.

As you say, it's going to get very nasty if these legal challenges are put forward. It's already gotten messy in Madrid with the city rejecting the restrictions via the local courts and the government getting angry and just declaring emergency powers to override the court decision.

SB


Seems odd that where I live had restrictions imposed almost immediately when the weekly rate hit 140 per 100,000 (and then almost immediately dipped below 100), but nothing seems to be happening in Nottingham when it's rate has exploded far beyond. I get that Nottingham's student population is the epicentre, but without restrictions, I can't see how they'll contain it to the specific areas currently affected.
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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 05:55 - Oct 12 with 2960 views26_Paz

On 21st September 2 scientists came on the TV and told us all that a ‘reasonable worst case’ scenario was that by the middle of October we would be seeing 50,000 cases per day which would lead to around 200 deaths per day (I can’t remember exactly but I think they said that would follow a few weeks later). It’s now mid October and the number of cases per day are around 15,000. Anyway, point I’m trying to make is they’ve said all this about exponential growth a month ago and it didn’t happen. Now they can’t work out why people aren’t taking these warnings seriously this time ...

The Paz Man

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 07:02 - Oct 12 with 2910 viewsWestStanderLaLaLa

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 05:55 - Oct 12 by 26_Paz

On 21st September 2 scientists came on the TV and told us all that a ‘reasonable worst case’ scenario was that by the middle of October we would be seeing 50,000 cases per day which would lead to around 200 deaths per day (I can’t remember exactly but I think they said that would follow a few weeks later). It’s now mid October and the number of cases per day are around 15,000. Anyway, point I’m trying to make is they’ve said all this about exponential growth a month ago and it didn’t happen. Now they can’t work out why people aren’t taking these warnings seriously this time ...


They didn’t predict that. They even used the words, not a prediction. “So this graph, which is not a prediction, is simply showing you how quickly this can move if the doubling time stays at seven days. And of course the challenge therefore is to make sure the doubling time does not stay at seven days. There’re already things in place which are expected to slow that. And to make sure that we do not enter into this exponential growth and end up with the problems that you would predict as a result of that. That requires speed, it requires action and it requires enough in order to be able to bring that down.”

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 07:23 - Oct 12 with 2857 views26_Paz

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 07:02 - Oct 12 by WestStanderLaLaLa

They didn’t predict that. They even used the words, not a prediction. “So this graph, which is not a prediction, is simply showing you how quickly this can move if the doubling time stays at seven days. And of course the challenge therefore is to make sure the doubling time does not stay at seven days. There’re already things in place which are expected to slow that. And to make sure that we do not enter into this exponential growth and end up with the problems that you would predict as a result of that. That requires speed, it requires action and it requires enough in order to be able to bring that down.”


I know it wasn’t a prediction. Point I’m making is that measures we were already taking were avoiding the situation they described hence it can be quite difficult to understand why further measures are required. As others have said perhaps publishing some of this science, obviously with summaries for the 99.5% of people who are laymen on the subject, might help.

The Paz Man

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 08:57 - Oct 12 with 2782 viewsdavblue

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 20:57 - Oct 11 by DanTheMan

Feels like it's going to get nasty. Liverpool looks to be going straight to the "tier 3" restrictions which I was fully expecting to be what Nottingham was getting but apparently not.


It's not just the government, they've made massive mistakes, but people have a duty to have a bit of ownership for their actions rather than just blaming the Government all the time,

I was out on a walk yesterday and people weren't keeping their distance from me despite me trying to keep out of the way as best i could. As i was about to get in the car, i heard a woman say to her child 'we will be meeting with xxxxx after this as we can't meet in more than groups of 6 people as we have 6 people here but we can can go to their house and pass on the germs, it's the stupid rules'.

Just take some ownership of your actions and think about what you are doing.
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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:07 - Oct 12 with 2762 viewshype313

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 05:55 - Oct 12 by 26_Paz

On 21st September 2 scientists came on the TV and told us all that a ‘reasonable worst case’ scenario was that by the middle of October we would be seeing 50,000 cases per day which would lead to around 200 deaths per day (I can’t remember exactly but I think they said that would follow a few weeks later). It’s now mid October and the number of cases per day are around 15,000. Anyway, point I’m trying to make is they’ve said all this about exponential growth a month ago and it didn’t happen. Now they can’t work out why people aren’t taking these warnings seriously this time ...


People aren't taking things seriously because clowns like Hancock are drinking in bars past 10pm, throw in Cummings, that SNP MP who still refuses to quit and a whole host of others who have flouted the rules, then what do we expect?

That 50k figure was clearly a way to reset the conscious of the population, as opposed to an actual forecast figure.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:29 - Oct 12 with 2726 viewsPinewoodblue

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:07 - Oct 12 by hype313

People aren't taking things seriously because clowns like Hancock are drinking in bars past 10pm, throw in Cummings, that SNP MP who still refuses to quit and a whole host of others who have flouted the rules, then what do we expect?

That 50k figure was clearly a way to reset the conscious of the population, as opposed to an actual forecast figure.


Most people are intelligent enough not to use the relapses of others as an excuse to do things they know they shouldn’t.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:33 - Oct 12 with 2716 viewshype313

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:29 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue

Most people are intelligent enough not to use the relapses of others as an excuse to do things they know they shouldn’t.


You would think..

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:39 - Oct 12 with 2686 viewsHARRY10

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 08:57 - Oct 12 by davblue

It's not just the government, they've made massive mistakes, but people have a duty to have a bit of ownership for their actions rather than just blaming the Government all the time,

I was out on a walk yesterday and people weren't keeping their distance from me despite me trying to keep out of the way as best i could. As i was about to get in the car, i heard a woman say to her child 'we will be meeting with xxxxx after this as we can't meet in more than groups of 6 people as we have 6 people here but we can can go to their house and pass on the germs, it's the stupid rules'.

Just take some ownership of your actions and think about what you are doing.


I think you mean 'take responsibility'
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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:49 - Oct 12 with 2673 viewsPinewoodblue

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:39 - Oct 12 by HARRY10

I think you mean 'take responsibility'


Most are but a minority seem to think it is OK to act like a selfish idiot because the likes of Hancock, Cummings etc do.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 09:59 - Oct 12 with 2645 viewsSwansea_Blue

People may well have seen this already, but if not this is an interesting consideration from one of the Indi SAGE members about what may lay ahead, depending on how the government now responds. Option 1 is a continuation of the status quo.


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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:04 - Oct 12 with 2635 viewsGuthrum

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 05:55 - Oct 12 by 26_Paz

On 21st September 2 scientists came on the TV and told us all that a ‘reasonable worst case’ scenario was that by the middle of October we would be seeing 50,000 cases per day which would lead to around 200 deaths per day (I can’t remember exactly but I think they said that would follow a few weeks later). It’s now mid October and the number of cases per day are around 15,000. Anyway, point I’m trying to make is they’ve said all this about exponential growth a month ago and it didn’t happen. Now they can’t work out why people aren’t taking these warnings seriously this time ...


That is rather the point of a 'worst case scenario' - it's the worst things can get if nothing is done. Things are being done (e.g. local lockdowns), so it should be unsurprising we haven't reached those levels.

15k per day and rising is still very bad, even allowing for the increased levels of testing compared with early April (when daily new cases were one-third of that figure).

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:16 - Oct 12 with 2619 viewsGuthrum

Perhaps those who test positive should be literally locked up for a fortnight, in a secure location. Fed, watered, provided with TV, the internet and social care, their bills paid. Maybe even allow family/friend visits under controlled conditions (PPE, perspex screens). But taking them completely and definitively out of circulation until they either develop the illness or stop being infectious.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:22 - Oct 12 with 2608 viewsStokieBlue

This is really rather unhelpful as well, just giving people more excuses which we really don't need.

"Margaret Ferrier argued that the virus "makes you act out of character" in an interview with the Sun on Sunday."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54496759

SB

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That would be hilarious.... on 10:23 - Oct 12 with 2603 viewsBloots

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:16 - Oct 12 by Guthrum

Perhaps those who test positive should be literally locked up for a fortnight, in a secure location. Fed, watered, provided with TV, the internet and social care, their bills paid. Maybe even allow family/friend visits under controlled conditions (PPE, perspex screens). But taking them completely and definitively out of circulation until they either develop the illness or stop being infectious.


....just imagine.

Alternatively stick all the infected on the Isle of Wight.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:44 - Oct 12 with 2554 viewsGuthrum

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 07:23 - Oct 12 by 26_Paz

I know it wasn’t a prediction. Point I’m making is that measures we were already taking were avoiding the situation they described hence it can be quite difficult to understand why further measures are required. As others have said perhaps publishing some of this science, obviously with summaries for the 99.5% of people who are laymen on the subject, might help.


When driving, you may avoid crashing right through the hedge, but ending up in a roadside ditch is still not a good outcome.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:47 - Oct 12 with 2545 viewsBlueBadger

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:22 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue

This is really rather unhelpful as well, just giving people more excuses which we really don't need.

"Margaret Ferrier argued that the virus "makes you act out of character" in an interview with the Sun on Sunday."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54496759

SB


If that was the case, surely it would have made Dominic Cummings do something that was actually in the public interest?

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:17 - Oct 12 with 2497 viewsPinewoodblue

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:16 - Oct 12 by Guthrum

Perhaps those who test positive should be literally locked up for a fortnight, in a secure location. Fed, watered, provided with TV, the internet and social care, their bills paid. Maybe even allow family/friend visits under controlled conditions (PPE, perspex screens). But taking them completely and definitively out of circulation until they either develop the illness or stop being infectious.


Proper quarantine, proper lockdown and proper curfew would be a start.

There is no point in closing pubs and restaurants at a set hour if the occupants can carry on in streets and parks after buying alcohol from shops that are open.

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:49 - Oct 12 with 2463 viewsStokieBlue

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 07:23 - Oct 12 by 26_Paz

I know it wasn’t a prediction. Point I’m making is that measures we were already taking were avoiding the situation they described hence it can be quite difficult to understand why further measures are required. As others have said perhaps publishing some of this science, obviously with summaries for the 99.5% of people who are laymen on the subject, might help.


We have not "avoided the situation" Paz, they just announced this:

"More people are now in hospital with Covid than before restrictions were announced in March."

Don't forget the graphs are all lagged two or three weeks.

The Nightingale hospitals are opening up north. Perhaps you can give your freedom at any costs posts a bit of a break for a while.

SB

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Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 11:49 - Oct 12 with 2461 viewsHarry_Palmer

Legal challenges to C19 lockdowns on 10:16 - Oct 12 by Guthrum

Perhaps those who test positive should be literally locked up for a fortnight, in a secure location. Fed, watered, provided with TV, the internet and social care, their bills paid. Maybe even allow family/friend visits under controlled conditions (PPE, perspex screens). But taking them completely and definitively out of circulation until they either develop the illness or stop being infectious.


Is this actually a serious suggestion?
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