| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 11:53 - Oct 23 with 2042 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 07:50 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
People at the time: ‘the lack of PPE is scandalous. We must get PPE to protect our health care heroes as quickly as possible whatever the cost’
Government gets PPE
People now: ‘but you shouldn’t have bought it from them and it shouldn’t have cost that much’ |
Not even close to being the point.
We were part of a continental-wide procurement scheme that required standards to be met and transparency in tendering, which would have ensured we received fit for purpose equipment that also offered value for money. We chose not to go down that route and have since wasted hundreds of millions of £ on companies with no track record, on stuff that couldn't be used, with contracts awarded in secrecy to people with close personal links to the Conservative Party or member of this government.
British exceptionalism and corruption at its very worse. |  |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:10 - Oct 23 with 1994 views | BlueNomad |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 11:16 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
I do apologise, I didn’t realise there was a difference between ‘trolling’ and ‘being a troll’ |
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but you missed it! A troll is someone who does so all the time, I hinted that maybe you were deliberately trolling on this occasion. After all, very few would try to sustain your line of argument in this thread.
I now think perhaps I shouldn't have bothered with that benefit of the doubt. |  | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:19 - Oct 23 with 1971 views | MonkeyAlan |
I think ALL MPs are corrupt. I dont trust any of them. Whichever party they belong to. |  | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:24 - Oct 23 with 1974 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:19 - Oct 23 by MonkeyAlan |
I think ALL MPs are corrupt. I dont trust any of them. Whichever party they belong to. |
Not true. Although it's surprising (worrying?) how many people believe that. There are some bad apples, for sure, including right at the top in this current government. But many work hard for their constituencies and abide by the rules and laws. You could argue some of those rules are too lax (they do get a lot of perks), but that's not the same as being corrupt. | |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:28 - Oct 23 with 1966 views | BlueLikeJazz |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:19 - Oct 23 by MonkeyAlan |
I think ALL MPs are corrupt. I dont trust any of them. Whichever party they belong to. |
My former MP and my current one (from different parties) are good men doing their best - your post is not only not true, it's dangerous nonsense. |  | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:33 - Oct 23 with 1962 views | HARRY10 |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 07:50 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
People at the time: ‘the lack of PPE is scandalous. We must get PPE to protect our health care heroes as quickly as possible whatever the cost’
Government gets PPE
People now: ‘but you shouldn’t have bought it from them and it shouldn’t have cost that much’ |
More lies from our resident liar - as the stocks were deliberately run down as part of the now infamous austerity lunacy.
"The investigation by BBC Panorama found that vital items were left out of the stockpile when it was set up in 2009 and that the government subsequently ignored a warning from its own advisers to buy missing equipment."
In fact the government were warned about this in June 2019.
A fairly damning report that refutes the lies and misinformation put out by the liar (above)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52440641 | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:04 - Oct 23 with 1932 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 08:52 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
Those suppliers didn’t have any, they were out of stock. It had to be bought from elsewhere. |
Think about this for one second...
If the normal vendors of PPE, who know the business, know the suppliers, know where to get stuff from, were out of stock because there was none to be had anywhere because suppliers didn't have any at that time, where was this mythical "elsewhere"? Did it have a magic PPE tree?
Now, I don't like calling people trolls, or insulting them (unless they are Battenberg haters), which is why I try to respond you as civilly as I can, but sometimes your logic has me scratching my head! |  |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:16 - Oct 23 with 1921 views | BlueForYou |
The problem was that the rest of the world got in quicker than us & wiped out all available stock! As regards MP’s, the majority can’t be trusted, Labour are just as bad if not worse. They all take the party line over their constituents when it comes to the crunch. |  | | |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:31 - Oct 23 with 1908 views | HARRY10 |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:16 - Oct 23 by BlueForYou |
The problem was that the rest of the world got in quicker than us & wiped out all available stock! As regards MP’s, the majority can’t be trusted, Labour are just as bad if not worse. They all take the party line over their constituents when it comes to the crunch. |
Not true.
The shortage was one of deliberate shortage caused by the government
It had ignored a previous report from a pandemic exercise, which had flagged up warnings. It had not set up a means of providing what was needed, as it's focus was on avoiding Brexit shortages.... caused by themselves.
"Exercise Cygnus was a 2016 government simulation of a flu outbreak, carried out to war-game the UK’s pandemic readiness. It involved 950 officials from central and local government, NHS organisations, prisons and local emergency response planners. A report on the exercise was compiled the following year and distributed among its participants."
The Cygnus report was frank about the state of the UK’s readiness. “The UK’s preparedness and response, in terms of its plans, policies and capability, is currently not sufficient to cope with the extreme demands of a severe pandemic that will have a nationwide impact across all sectors,” it found."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/what-was-exercise-cygnus-and-what-
Look up Exercise Cygnus elsewhere - it shows negligence on the part of the government. Not only with PPE but care homes.
Weasel words trying to distract from this negligence will not wash | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:37 - Oct 23 with 1894 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:33 - Oct 23 by HARRY10 |
More lies from our resident liar - as the stocks were deliberately run down as part of the now infamous austerity lunacy.
"The investigation by BBC Panorama found that vital items were left out of the stockpile when it was set up in 2009 and that the government subsequently ignored a warning from its own advisers to buy missing equipment."
In fact the government were warned about this in June 2019.
A fairly damning report that refutes the lies and misinformation put out by the liar (above)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52440641 |
I took a different view on the situation to you. That’s not telling lies. |  |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:39 - Oct 23 with 1892 views | m14_blue |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:37 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
I took a different view on the situation to you. That’s not telling lies. |
I'm not sure how you can try to defend this tbh Paz.
It's possible to support Brexit, and even this iteration of the Tory party, whilst also acknowledging that they have fcuked up things quite badly and sometimes in ways that leave a pretty nasty smell.
Defending stuff like this just means no one listens if/when they actually are being unfairly criticised. | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:44 - Oct 23 with 1882 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:39 - Oct 23 by m14_blue |
I'm not sure how you can try to defend this tbh Paz.
It's possible to support Brexit, and even this iteration of the Tory party, whilst also acknowledging that they have fcuked up things quite badly and sometimes in ways that leave a pretty nasty smell.
Defending stuff like this just means no one listens if/when they actually are being unfairly criticised. |
I’m not saying they haven’t had a royal mare with the whole corona thing. They have. All I was saying is I understand their desperation to source PPE at the absolute height of the crisis. | |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:47 - Oct 23 with 1882 views | m14_blue |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:44 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
I’m not saying they haven’t had a royal mare with the whole corona thing. They have. All I was saying is I understand their desperation to source PPE at the absolute height of the crisis. |
Fair enough, appreciate that.
I still think you're being overly generous to them on the PPE score, it was obviously a nightmare but seems they took advantage of that nightmare to enrich themselves and their mates. Unforgivable in my eyes. | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:48 - Oct 23 with 1873 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:47 - Oct 23 by m14_blue |
Fair enough, appreciate that.
I still think you're being overly generous to them on the PPE score, it was obviously a nightmare but seems they took advantage of that nightmare to enrich themselves and their mates. Unforgivable in my eyes. |
Well, yeah, if they have indeed done that then I would hope relevant prosecutions are successfully brought. | |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:49 - Oct 23 with 1877 views | Dyland |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:47 - Oct 23 by m14_blue |
Fair enough, appreciate that.
I still think you're being overly generous to them on the PPE score, it was obviously a nightmare but seems they took advantage of that nightmare to enrich themselves and their mates. Unforgivable in my eyes. |
Generous indeed, and taken at face value rather naive.
Then, I am a cynical bastard. But I think I'm right to be in this instance.
Pazzers, no offense intended obvs. The internet is a silly place. |  |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:51 - Oct 23 with 1872 views | NewcyBlue |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:44 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
I’m not saying they haven’t had a royal mare with the whole corona thing. They have. All I was saying is I understand their desperation to source PPE at the absolute height of the crisis. |
They were desperate to line their pockets and those of their friends and business partners. There are so many reports about this.
I even started this thread the other day, which details the law proceedings.
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:52 - Oct 23 with 1866 views | Darth_Koont |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:24 - Oct 23 by Swansea_Blue |
Not true. Although it's surprising (worrying?) how many people believe that. There are some bad apples, for sure, including right at the top in this current government. But many work hard for their constituencies and abide by the rules and laws. You could argue some of those rules are too lax (they do get a lot of perks), but that's not the same as being corrupt. |
I think the reverse is more true, certainly away from the back benches. The whole system of getting chosen as a candidate and then rising through party hierarchy doesn’t exactly bode well given what we’ve seen from the Tory and Labour power-brokers when their masks slip.
As an industry, they’re shockingly bad and especially given their function is democratic representation. |  |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:53 - Oct 23 with 1861 views | 26_Paz |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:49 - Oct 23 by Dyland |
Generous indeed, and taken at face value rather naive.
Then, I am a cynical bastard. But I think I'm right to be in this instance.
Pazzers, no offense intended obvs. The internet is a silly place. |
None taken mate, I get far, far worse than that as you will no doubt have seen! | |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 15:41 - Oct 23 with 1832 views | HARRY10 |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 09:03 - Oct 23 by 26_Paz |
Developing an app is a bit different to be fair ... at the time they just needed something, anything, to provide some protection. Now things have settled down I completely agree that contracts should be placed through proper means with established vendors |
Yet others were able to get something that worked
As with prettymmuch all the other failures it is the bit in bold that highlights this governments failings
"Like South Korea, Germany is often flagged up as a success story for testing. It is another of the countries that very quickly established a regime built on already excellent regional health infrastructure and a network of laboratories.
Unlike in the UK, where the test and trace effort was centralised and largely outsourced to private companies, in Germany the effort relied on local public health services reinforced with redeployed civil servants and extra staff and supported by state institutions."
Having a different opinion, or different 'facts' as has been repeatedly shown amounts to lying - as your intent is to misrepresent the truth.
It is as simple as that. | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 16:56 - Oct 23 with 1802 views | MonkeyAlan |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 13:28 - Oct 23 by BlueLikeJazz |
My former MP and my current one (from different parties) are good men doing their best - your post is not only not true, it's dangerous nonsense. |
It's my opinion. Same as that's your opinion. They are all a waste of space. | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 17:48 - Oct 23 with 1782 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 16:56 - Oct 23 by MonkeyAlan |
It's my opinion. Same as that's your opinion. They are all a waste of space. |
So you'd be quite happy in a dictatorship then? | |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 00:44 - Oct 25 with 1676 views | HARRY10 |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 14:31 - Oct 23 by HARRY10 |
Not true.
The shortage was one of deliberate shortage caused by the government
It had ignored a previous report from a pandemic exercise, which had flagged up warnings. It had not set up a means of providing what was needed, as it's focus was on avoiding Brexit shortages.... caused by themselves.
"Exercise Cygnus was a 2016 government simulation of a flu outbreak, carried out to war-game the UK’s pandemic readiness. It involved 950 officials from central and local government, NHS organisations, prisons and local emergency response planners. A report on the exercise was compiled the following year and distributed among its participants."
The Cygnus report was frank about the state of the UK’s readiness. “The UK’s preparedness and response, in terms of its plans, policies and capability, is currently not sufficient to cope with the extreme demands of a severe pandemic that will have a nationwide impact across all sectors,” it found."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/what-was-exercise-cygnus-and-what-
Look up Exercise Cygnus elsewhere - it shows negligence on the part of the government. Not only with PPE but care homes.
Weasel words trying to distract from this negligence will not wash |
It looks like this not going to go away
"The government has been accused of withholding the full findings of a simulation exercise that warned ministers that the UK would not cope in the event of a pandemic."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/24/ministers-still-hiding-full-detail | | | |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 23:03 - Oct 26 with 1607 views | Edmundo |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 09:22 - Oct 23 by Darth_Koont |
I can see you won’t accept the glaring problem with your argument.
The desperation was cover to bung money and contracts to friends, donors and the opportunists their ideology demands. Same happened with the ventilator fiasco involving Dyson and JCB, same with giving the Track and Trace contract to Serco with their business model being long-term engagements rather than quick, accurate executions, same as putting Dido Harding in charge of anything to do with the NHS and her husband as the Anti-Corruption czar.
It’s criminal or perhaps would be if the UK wasn’t so corrupt anyway. It’s certainly morally and logically indefensible when it’s resulted in deaths and a draining of public funds. |
You should be a political analyst. Maybe if the BBC stopped acting like state media they would have you! |  |
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 06:02 - Oct 27 with 1559 views | TheTrueBlue1878 |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 11:27 - Oct 23 by factual_blue |
Confirmation, in other words, that thatcher and Churchill were dishonest. |
There has never been an honest politician regardless, whether that’s
Churchill or Thatcher, recent times; Cameron, Johnson, Blair or Brown.
There will never be one, hence why I rarely rarely get involved in political debates on here. [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 6:08]
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| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 08:18 - Oct 27 with 1526 views | Plums |
| Anyone who thinks there is 1oz of honesty in any of the MPs running this show on 08:35 - Oct 23 by itfcjoe |
What about the existing businesses who currently supplied the NHS, who couldn't even get on the list and their products tested despite 3 months of chasing as an existing supplier - when they see £200m given to Medpro, who managed to incorporate a company from scratch, get their products certified, get awarded 2 large Government contracts in 6 weeks?
Corruption, cronyism - call it what you want. |
At a time when i know from personal experience, it was nigh on impossible to open a corporate bank account - let alone do all the things you mentioned. |  |
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