| Lando Norris 18:58 - Oct 27 with 3223 views | uefacup81 |
Only just heard about the 'controversy' thanks to Radio Suffolk, so sorry if this has already been covered.
Apparently he's been forced into an apology after downplaying Lewis Hamilton's achievements, saying that, with the car LG has, he should be winning every race.
What even is the issue there? I think it's a legitimate point of view, so why should he have to retract his comments and fall into line to praise LH as the greatest of all time? [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 18:58]
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| Lando Norris on 19:15 - Oct 27 with 2767 views | b1079blue |
So why hasnt Bottas and previously Rosberg won more gps then?
Cant deny Hamilton his success no rich or famous parents. The best drivers allways end ip in the best car. |  | | |
| Lando Norris on 19:16 - Oct 27 with 2745 views | WicklowBlue |
| Lando Norris on 19:15 - Oct 27 by b1079blue |
So why hasnt Bottas and previously Rosberg won more gps then?
Cant deny Hamilton his success no rich or famous parents. The best drivers allways end ip in the best car. |
And as the team's no.1 driver so get the first pick on everything. |  | | |
| Lando Norris on 19:32 - Oct 27 with 2656 views | J4ck22 |
It's just a bit disrespectful to what Hamilton's achieved. You don't get all that just by being in the best car. Bottas has been in the same car for 4 seasons now and doesn't even come close to Lewis.
I'm tired of the Merc/Hamilton domination as much as anyone, but he definitely deserves all the praise. I think Lando was just in a bad mood after another unlucky weekend since he also slammed Stroll in the media. | | | |
| Lando Norris on 20:05 - Oct 27 with 2493 views | Bluearmy71 |
| Lando Norris on 19:15 - Oct 27 by b1079blue |
So why hasnt Bottas and previously Rosberg won more gps then?
Cant deny Hamilton his success no rich or famous parents. The best drivers allways end ip in the best car. |
Two words some why Lewis is the favoured driver "commercial revenue" |  | | |
| Lando Norris on 22:42 - Oct 27 with 2130 views | eireblue |
| Lando Norris on 20:05 - Oct 27 by Bluearmy71 |
Two words some why Lewis is the favoured driver "commercial revenue" |
Yeah, that will be why Bottas lets Lewis win. |  | | |
| Lando Norris on 23:12 - Oct 27 with 2073 views | StokieBlue |
| Lando Norris on 19:16 - Oct 27 by WicklowBlue |
And as the team's no.1 driver so get the first pick on everything. |
Explain.
This isn't Ferrari in the late 90s. The cars are equal and whoever is ahead in the race gets first strategy call.
So explain what you mean with evidence rather than belittling a massive achievement.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lando Norris on 23:27 - Oct 27 with 2022 views | Bluearmy71 |
| Lando Norris on 23:12 - Oct 27 by StokieBlue |
Explain.
This isn't Ferrari in the late 90s. The cars are equal and whoever is ahead in the race gets first strategy call.
So explain what you mean with evidence rather than belittling a massive achievement.
SB |
Everyone knows that Lewis is the favoured driver its the same with every F1 team, its just no longer spoken of as much or are you trying to tell me that Charles Leclerc isn't the number one driver at Ferrari as opposed to a multi world champion with a wealth of experience in SV
One of the commentators was speaking of George Russel may not having a seat at Williams next year, he is far the better driver as he has proven in that team and yet because Latifi brings so much sponsorship revenue in they will keep the inferior driver!! Point being yet again there is always a favoured driver regardless of skill!
EDIT
And if its a strategy thing and all drivers are treated equally why isn't Botas allowed his tyre choice, he wanted opposite of Lewis which would have been soft this weekend for the last 16 laps of the race, Mrec covered this with saying its policy to have the same tyres, this personally i struggle to believe!
And in no way am I belittling LH's marvellous achievement, I'm so proud that a British sportsman has become the best ever!! [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 23:34]
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| Lando Norris on 23:37 - Oct 27 with 1996 views | pointofblue |
| Lando Norris on 19:32 - Oct 27 by J4ck22 |
It's just a bit disrespectful to what Hamilton's achieved. You don't get all that just by being in the best car. Bottas has been in the same car for 4 seasons now and doesn't even come close to Lewis.
I'm tired of the Merc/Hamilton domination as much as anyone, but he definitely deserves all the praise. I think Lando was just in a bad mood after another unlucky weekend since he also slammed Stroll in the media. |
To be fair to Norris he did basically say this in his original comment, about needing to beat Bottas/Rosberg, in a roundabout way.
“After the race on Sunday, Norris was asked what he made of Hamilton breaking Michael Schumacher's all-time record of wins.
"I'm just happy for him, nothing more," the Briton replied. "It doesn't mean anything to me, really. He's in a car which should win every race, basically.
"He has to beat one or two other drivers, that's it. Fair play to him, he's still doing the job he has to do."
Taken from the BBC Sport site. | |
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| Lando Norris on 23:40 - Oct 27 with 1986 views | solomon |
I think Lando has a much better grasp of this than anyone on this forum, unless we have a few professional racing drivers on here? |  | | |
| Lando Norris on 00:03 - Oct 28 with 1953 views | StokieBlue |
| Lando Norris on 23:27 - Oct 27 by Bluearmy71 |
Everyone knows that Lewis is the favoured driver its the same with every F1 team, its just no longer spoken of as much or are you trying to tell me that Charles Leclerc isn't the number one driver at Ferrari as opposed to a multi world champion with a wealth of experience in SV
One of the commentators was speaking of George Russel may not having a seat at Williams next year, he is far the better driver as he has proven in that team and yet because Latifi brings so much sponsorship revenue in they will keep the inferior driver!! Point being yet again there is always a favoured driver regardless of skill!
EDIT
And if its a strategy thing and all drivers are treated equally why isn't Botas allowed his tyre choice, he wanted opposite of Lewis which would have been soft this weekend for the last 16 laps of the race, Mrec covered this with saying its policy to have the same tyres, this personally i struggle to believe!
And in no way am I belittling LH's marvellous achievement, I'm so proud that a British sportsman has become the best ever!! [Post edited 27 Oct 2020 23:34]
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Ferrari aren't Mercedes so that's a really weird comparison.
So not a single piece of evidence that Hamilton is treated differently to Bottas and actual evidence that they are treated exactly the same (not letting him on sorts as they wouldn't make the end so they both when on hards and as I said the person in the lead dictates the choice).
You managed to disprove your own assertion and prove mine.
SB [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 0:33]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lando Norris on 02:07 - Oct 28 with 1874 views | Bluearmy71 |
| Lando Norris on 00:03 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
Ferrari aren't Mercedes so that's a really weird comparison.
So not a single piece of evidence that Hamilton is treated differently to Bottas and actual evidence that they are treated exactly the same (not letting him on sorts as they wouldn't make the end so they both when on hards and as I said the person in the lead dictates the choice).
You managed to disprove your own assertion and prove mine.
SB [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 0:33]
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Not at all, the comparison is fair and is clearly being used as an example of yes favourite does exist in f1 in the year 2020 which to all intents and purposes is/what you were crying about!
The evidence is there for those who have their eyes open!
Speaking of evidence where is yours to back up that the person in the lead dictates the choice, I think you will find that its the team that has the final say not a driver and of course there is then the rule about such and such compound of tyre has to be used.
And someone like you not having an opinion on the situation at Williams, why?? cos you couldn't prove or try to prove other forum members wrong on it or is your knowledge on that situation lacking??
And I see you have not lost your horrid trait of being condescending toward others, more so when they make points you can't argue against or prove wrong. | | | |
| Lando Norris on 07:46 - Oct 28 with 1662 views | VeronaBlue |
In all fairness I think the statement is true but in the sense he’s also the best driver in the best car. Put Norris or several other drivers in the Mercedes and we all know they don’t win a championship as they’re not good enough. | | | |
| Lando Norris on 07:59 - Oct 28 with 1626 views | uefacup81 |
| Lando Norris on 07:46 - Oct 28 by VeronaBlue |
In all fairness I think the statement is true but in the sense he’s also the best driver in the best car. Put Norris or several other drivers in the Mercedes and we all know they don’t win a championship as they’re not good enough. |
By and large I agree.
On the other hand, I think if you'd put any of the top six-or-so drivers in the Mercedes for the last decade, they would have probably had similar levels of success. | |
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| Lando Norris on 08:03 - Oct 28 with 1618 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Lando Norris on 23:40 - Oct 27 by solomon |
I think Lando has a much better grasp of this than anyone on this forum, unless we have a few professional racing drivers on here? |
Let's see what former F1 racing driver JP had to say in his most recent article...
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/54686292
Same car?
"Hamilton caught and passed team-mate Valtteri Bottas as if the Finn was a midfielder rather than in the same car, and pulled out more than 25 seconds by the flag."
Natural Talent
"The first thing is clearly a natural talent that is relatively unrivalled through history.
The skill in driving an F1 car to the brink of its limit is all in the feel for grip, and this is what Hamilton has demonstrated in abundance through the years.
Some of Hamilton's early wins were extraordinary in this way, and he has shown his ability to beat the best in difficult circumstances right from his rookie year."
He goes on to give evidence of Hamilton in the wet, when a cars advantages are largely removed and driver ability stands out way more.
Mercedes dominance
And of course, he says what pretty much every driver has said regarding cars. If he hadn't been in the Mercedes he wouldn't have won as much. He adds some clauses though...
"I do think, though, that he could have won titles for Ferrari where Vettel faltered, and, who knows, perhaps in a Red Bull this year he could be challenging as well."
The greates drivers end up in the greatest cars...
"Senna's McLaren was a monster in the late 80s and early '90s, arguably more dominant than even Mercedes' 2020 masterpiece. Schumacher built up his enormous records, by driving in another of Formula 1's dominant eras - the Ferrari team of the early 2000s.
The best drivers find their way to the best cars and become dominant forces. It is what we have seen before and it is what we are seeing now." |  |
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| Lando Norris on 08:30 - Oct 28 with 1558 views | VeronaBlue |
| Lando Norris on 07:59 - Oct 28 by uefacup81 |
By and large I agree.
On the other hand, I think if you'd put any of the top six-or-so drivers in the Mercedes for the last decade, they would have probably had similar levels of success. |
Yeah absolutely. There’s only half a dozen drivers who have the ability, confidence and mental toughness to win a championship in the right car. I’d imagine it’s a tough burden to carry mentally knowing you’re in ‘the best car’.
Put the likes of Hamilton or Verstappen in a lesser car, they may not win a championship but you’ll certainly see them get more out of the cars than their current drivers. | | | |
| Lando Norris on 08:36 - Oct 28 with 1543 views | uefacup81 |
| Lando Norris on 08:30 - Oct 28 by VeronaBlue |
Yeah absolutely. There’s only half a dozen drivers who have the ability, confidence and mental toughness to win a championship in the right car. I’d imagine it’s a tough burden to carry mentally knowing you’re in ‘the best car’.
Put the likes of Hamilton or Verstappen in a lesser car, they may not win a championship but you’ll certainly see them get more out of the cars than their current drivers. |
I think F1 would be made all the more interesting by making it a 'two-race' series, in a similar format to the lower levels of the sport.
In 'race 1' the drivers race in 'constructor-built' cars in the same way as they currently do. In 'race 2' a 'stock' car is provided, which is identical across the field, set up by an independent expert according to the track conditions in order to provide a level playing field. | |
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| Lando Norris on 08:40 - Oct 28 with 1536 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Lando Norris on 07:59 - Oct 28 by uefacup81 |
By and large I agree.
On the other hand, I think if you'd put any of the top six-or-so drivers in the Mercedes for the last decade, they would have probably had similar levels of success. |
Probably not. Probably more likely that they would share titles with Rosberg and Rosberg wouldn't have quit due to the level he had to push himself to win a Championship (somewhat fortuitously). | |
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| Lando Norris on 08:45 - Oct 28 with 1524 views | VeronaBlue |
| Lando Norris on 08:36 - Oct 28 by uefacup81 |
I think F1 would be made all the more interesting by making it a 'two-race' series, in a similar format to the lower levels of the sport.
In 'race 1' the drivers race in 'constructor-built' cars in the same way as they currently do. In 'race 2' a 'stock' car is provided, which is identical across the field, set up by an independent expert according to the track conditions in order to provide a level playing field. |
You’d see a lot more closer races like in Formula E for sure. | | | |
| Lando Norris on 08:53 - Oct 28 with 1512 views | VeronaBlue |
| Lando Norris on 08:40 - Oct 28 by Kropotkin123 |
Probably not. Probably more likely that they would share titles with Rosberg and Rosberg wouldn't have quit due to the level he had to push himself to win a Championship (somewhat fortuitously). |
Rosberg would have retired regardless. I think a couple of drivers could have been in Hamilton’s car and pushed him close. He didn’t want to take the risk anymore and if he carried on you could only imagine that would have affected his driving. | | | |
| Lando Norris on 08:58 - Oct 28 with 1498 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
In my opinion, as a casual F1 fan who has watched bits or most of maybe 50 or 60 of Hamilton's wins, the "best car" thing isn't as cut and dried as it sounds.
A car in F1 has to conform to specifications and regulations. Within those regulations teams constantly innovate to seek to find some competitive advantage.
The cars have to race on a variety of different tracks, in different temperatures and weather conditions.
The team make adjustments based on testing data. Some of these are based on tests carried out by the third driver, some then are personal tweaks based on testing by the two race drivers.
If Hamilton's car is best it is mostly down to the skill of the designers and engineers etc, also the third driver to an extent, but specifically the difference between his car and Bottas' ultimately comes down to their individual set-ups. And that comes down to the symbiotic relationship between him and his crew, his diligence in practice, intelligence and intuition in setting up the car, and then in his ability to drive to the set up on traditional tracks or tight street circuits, in pouring rain with minimal visibility and tyre-blistering heat.
Best car or best driver? Or best car because best driver? [Post edited 28 Oct 2020 9:06]
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| Lando Norris on 09:14 - Oct 28 with 1445 views | StokieBlue |
| Lando Norris on 02:07 - Oct 28 by Bluearmy71 |
Not at all, the comparison is fair and is clearly being used as an example of yes favourite does exist in f1 in the year 2020 which to all intents and purposes is/what you were crying about!
The evidence is there for those who have their eyes open!
Speaking of evidence where is yours to back up that the person in the lead dictates the choice, I think you will find that its the team that has the final say not a driver and of course there is then the rule about such and such compound of tyre has to be used.
And someone like you not having an opinion on the situation at Williams, why?? cos you couldn't prove or try to prove other forum members wrong on it or is your knowledge on that situation lacking??
And I see you have not lost your horrid trait of being condescending toward others, more so when they make points you can't argue against or prove wrong. |
"Not at all, the comparison is fair and is clearly being used as an example of yes favourite does exist in f1 in the year 2020 which to all intents and purposes is/what you were crying about!
The evidence is there for those who have their eyes open!"
As I've already said, I am speaking specifically about Mercedes which was what my original response was about and they don't really have a specific number 1 driver. Hamilton is the defacto number 1 because he's so much better than Bottas but both cars get the same parts and strategies and are allowed to race against each other. That hasn't generally been the case for teams which have an actual number 1 driver like Ferrari when Schumacher was there.
"Speaking of evidence where is yours to back up that the person in the lead dictates the choice, I think you will find that its the team that has the final say not a driver and of course there is then the rule about such and such compound of tyre has to be used."
This could have been phrased better by me. At Mercedes (which is what I am specifically talking about in my replies so I am not sure why you keep generalising) the optimal strategy is decided before the race and they tend to stick to it for both cars unless something unplanned has happened. In these cases the driver in the lead gets to come in and whatever tyre they put him on the other driver tends to follow suit. This is exactly the same when Bottas is in the lead.
In the last race they didn't allow Bottas to take the softs because they had modelled it and determined it would be risky to get to the end on them, that he wouldn't catch Hamilton anyway who was miles ahead and if he didn't make the end of the race and needed to pit they would lose their first and second places for the constructors championship. It had nothing to do with "favouritism".
"And someone like you not having an opinion on the situation at Williams, why?? cos you couldn't prove or try to prove other forum members wrong on it or is your knowledge on that situation lacking??"
It's a bit odd to call people out for not having opinions on something that they aren't even talking about and which isn't part of their point (which was Mercedes). As for Williams, it's unfortunate for Russell who is clearly a better driver but Williams are a struggling team and if you can get two drivers who give you 50% of your yearly budget in extra cash from sponsors then they have to consider that. It's not as simple as you want to make out.
"And I see you have not lost your horrid trait of being condescending toward others, more so when they make points you can't argue against or prove wrong."
Yet others have agreed with my response to your post. You have the unfortunate trait of calling anyone who disagrees with you and dares to present evidence to back up their position as "condescending".
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lando Norris on 09:24 - Oct 28 with 1423 views | Bluearmy71 |
| Lando Norris on 09:14 - Oct 28 by StokieBlue |
"Not at all, the comparison is fair and is clearly being used as an example of yes favourite does exist in f1 in the year 2020 which to all intents and purposes is/what you were crying about!
The evidence is there for those who have their eyes open!"
As I've already said, I am speaking specifically about Mercedes which was what my original response was about and they don't really have a specific number 1 driver. Hamilton is the defacto number 1 because he's so much better than Bottas but both cars get the same parts and strategies and are allowed to race against each other. That hasn't generally been the case for teams which have an actual number 1 driver like Ferrari when Schumacher was there.
"Speaking of evidence where is yours to back up that the person in the lead dictates the choice, I think you will find that its the team that has the final say not a driver and of course there is then the rule about such and such compound of tyre has to be used."
This could have been phrased better by me. At Mercedes (which is what I am specifically talking about in my replies so I am not sure why you keep generalising) the optimal strategy is decided before the race and they tend to stick to it for both cars unless something unplanned has happened. In these cases the driver in the lead gets to come in and whatever tyre they put him on the other driver tends to follow suit. This is exactly the same when Bottas is in the lead.
In the last race they didn't allow Bottas to take the softs because they had modelled it and determined it would be risky to get to the end on them, that he wouldn't catch Hamilton anyway who was miles ahead and if he didn't make the end of the race and needed to pit they would lose their first and second places for the constructors championship. It had nothing to do with "favouritism".
"And someone like you not having an opinion on the situation at Williams, why?? cos you couldn't prove or try to prove other forum members wrong on it or is your knowledge on that situation lacking??"
It's a bit odd to call people out for not having opinions on something that they aren't even talking about and which isn't part of their point (which was Mercedes). As for Williams, it's unfortunate for Russell who is clearly a better driver but Williams are a struggling team and if you can get two drivers who give you 50% of your yearly budget in extra cash from sponsors then they have to consider that. It's not as simple as you want to make out.
"And I see you have not lost your horrid trait of being condescending toward others, more so when they make points you can't argue against or prove wrong."
Yet others have agreed with my response to your post. You have the unfortunate trait of calling anyone who disagrees with you and dares to present evidence to back up their position as "condescending".
SB |
Oh no mate its just you I call condescending because you are the only poster I have seen that comes across like that to everyone who disagrees with you or makes a point you have no answer for.
And to keep it short, for me you are still talking complete boll*cks! | | | |
| Lando Norris on 09:31 - Oct 28 with 1408 views | StokieBlue |
| Lando Norris on 09:24 - Oct 28 by Bluearmy71 |
Oh no mate its just you I call condescending because you are the only poster I have seen that comes across like that to everyone who disagrees with you or makes a point you have no answer for.
And to keep it short, for me you are still talking complete boll*cks! |
Lovely post.
Well constructed, informative and counters the arguments and evidence put to it well.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Lando Norris on 09:48 - Oct 28 with 1389 views | Radlett_blue |
| Lando Norris on 19:32 - Oct 27 by J4ck22 |
It's just a bit disrespectful to what Hamilton's achieved. You don't get all that just by being in the best car. Bottas has been in the same car for 4 seasons now and doesn't even come close to Lewis.
I'm tired of the Merc/Hamilton domination as much as anyone, but he definitely deserves all the praise. I think Lando was just in a bad mood after another unlucky weekend since he also slammed Stroll in the media. |
While it's hard to compare the generations, it's impossible to argue that Hamilton is anything other than an all time great with 6 championships. This season has been exceptionally dull with the Mercedes at least half a second a lap quicker than any other car, but that shouldn't detract from Hamilton's achievements for, as some have posted, the best drivers in F1 invariably end up in one of the quickest cars. Fangio won his 5 titles in 4 different cars, for example. |  |
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| Lando Norris on 09:52 - Oct 28 with 1386 views | StokieBlue |
| Lando Norris on 09:48 - Oct 28 by Radlett_blue |
While it's hard to compare the generations, it's impossible to argue that Hamilton is anything other than an all time great with 6 championships. This season has been exceptionally dull with the Mercedes at least half a second a lap quicker than any other car, but that shouldn't detract from Hamilton's achievements for, as some have posted, the best drivers in F1 invariably end up in one of the quickest cars. Fangio won his 5 titles in 4 different cars, for example. |
Hamilton was half a second quicker than Bottas in the same car last race.
You are entirely right that the best drivers are wanted by the best manufacturers of cars.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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