| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) 13:07 - Oct 29 with 29378 views | Ewan_Oozami |
According to my highly dodgy Twitter feed... [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 13:10]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:35 - Oct 30 with 801 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:32 - Oct 30 by m14_blue |
Bit OTT |
Not at all. All he does is complain about tolerance and lefties so why bother coming here?
In addition, I'm bored of entertaining people like this politely on the forum. Other people may be able to compartmentalise things and chat happily with posters about football and fluff knowing full well they hold some God awful views but I'm not one of them.
As ever, I'm happy to hold my hands up and say maybe I'm wrong on this, if anyone thinks so then I'd encourage them to report it for abuse and let Phil decide. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 12:39]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:40 - Oct 30 with 774 views | monytowbray |
What are you on about? The Murdoch owned press had a field day with this but silence on other issues. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:41 - Oct 30 with 771 views | m14_blue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:35 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
Not at all. All he does is complain about tolerance and lefties so why bother coming here?
In addition, I'm bored of entertaining people like this politely on the forum. Other people may be able to compartmentalise things and chat happily with posters about football and fluff knowing full well they hold some God awful views but I'm not one of them.
As ever, I'm happy to hold my hands up and say maybe I'm wrong on this, if anyone thinks so then I'd encourage them to report it for abuse and let Phil decide. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 12:39]
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I don't think it was abusive, I just don't think it's very nice either.
I disagree with Paz's politics just as vehemently as you do but do think you've got a particular issue with him that goes too far sometimes.
Over 43% of the UK voted for the tories in December and I don't think shouting them down every time they express an opinion about anything, on whatever subject, because they supported a racist and a homophobe is particularly helpful or sustainable. Not to mention it often turns interesting TWTD threads into the same old slanging matches.
I don't doubt Paz's hypocrisy on this thread, it's pretty self evident, but that last post was way too personal IMO. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:43 - Oct 30 with 766 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:41 - Oct 30 by m14_blue |
I don't think it was abusive, I just don't think it's very nice either.
I disagree with Paz's politics just as vehemently as you do but do think you've got a particular issue with him that goes too far sometimes.
Over 43% of the UK voted for the tories in December and I don't think shouting them down every time they express an opinion about anything, on whatever subject, because they supported a racist and a homophobe is particularly helpful or sustainable. Not to mention it often turns interesting TWTD threads into the same old slanging matches.
I don't doubt Paz's hypocrisy on this thread, it's pretty self evident, but that last post was way too personal IMO. |
Perhaps you just haven't seen the posts I've seen. There's one I mention on the previous page of this thread that was spectacularly offensive and certainly not very nice. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 12:43]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:44 - Oct 30 with 757 views | SpruceMoose |
To save some time:
"It's just a joke and you're taking it in the wrong context" | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:44 - Oct 30 with 753 views | m14_blue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:43 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
Perhaps you just haven't seen the posts I've seen. There's one I mention on the previous page of this thread that was spectacularly offensive and certainly not very nice. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 12:43]
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Fair enough, I'll take your word for it.
I'm not going to preach at you anyway, as I say, I generally agree with the substance of your posts, even if I'm not always 100% keen on the style. | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:46 - Oct 30 with 743 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:44 - Oct 30 by m14_blue |
Fair enough, I'll take your word for it.
I'm not going to preach at you anyway, as I say, I generally agree with the substance of your posts, even if I'm not always 100% keen on the style. |
I'll admit to having pre-election fury this week. Like a bear with a sore head and my tolerance for shenanigans is just about at 0.
No harm no foul here though, I appreciate what you're saying. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:46 - Oct 30 with 742 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:41 - Oct 30 by m14_blue |
I don't think it was abusive, I just don't think it's very nice either.
I disagree with Paz's politics just as vehemently as you do but do think you've got a particular issue with him that goes too far sometimes.
Over 43% of the UK voted for the tories in December and I don't think shouting them down every time they express an opinion about anything, on whatever subject, because they supported a racist and a homophobe is particularly helpful or sustainable. Not to mention it often turns interesting TWTD threads into the same old slanging matches.
I don't doubt Paz's hypocrisy on this thread, it's pretty self evident, but that last post was way too personal IMO. |
You can never go too far with a racist.
This whole idea of balance being “give the racist liars a platform for fairness” isn’t balance, it’s pandering to people who if they had their own way would turn a blind eye to genocide on our own soil.
Not to mention the fact they get these platforms, lie their arses off and by the time it’s fact checked (if we are lucky) the fake story has done the rounds and influenced opinion.
Balance isn’t about voices, it’s about facts and accountability. The MSM all round have failed us there, particularly the Beeb which may as well be a CCHQ sub division now.
At least we have the Byline Times I guess. [Post edited 30 Oct 2020 12:49]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:48 - Oct 30 with 737 views | NewcyBlue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:33 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
His Trump fandom makes perfect sense. His response to me asking how he felt about poor Mexican kids floating face down dead in the Rio Grande was to say:
"Maybe the parents should have thought of that eh?".
Sadly Phil deleted the comments, but other posters saw it too.
He's not a nice person, no matter how many 'mates' he hands out. |
I think that was the post that first brought Paz to my attention. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:50 - Oct 30 with 733 views | m14_blue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:46 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
I'll admit to having pre-election fury this week. Like a bear with a sore head and my tolerance for shenanigans is just about at 0.
No harm no foul here though, I appreciate what you're saying. |
Let's hope the world is a slightly better place by the end of next week. | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:52 - Oct 30 with 729 views | marcus1642 |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:28 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
Arf!
The guy who laughs at racist and homophobic jokes is telling me to grow up? Good one Paz.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Pathetic, childish outburst. There is plenty of people on here who don't exactly find your extremist nonsense palatable. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:52 - Oct 30 with 728 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:50 - Oct 30 by m14_blue |
Let's hope the world is a slightly better place by the end of next week. |
If Trump goes it will be the first of many corrupt dominos that fall globally and it will come back to bite Brexit on the arse, why do you think Farage is out there right now blatantly lying when the majority of the world outside the USA see the the current Republicans for what they are? | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:53 - Oct 30 with 721 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:48 - Oct 30 by NewcyBlue |
I think that was the post that first brought Paz to my attention. |
The mask of politeness and civility certainly slipped on that thread. It's the same as with JRM. Thinks and says some awful stuff but because people think 'Cor! He's so polite!" he gets away with it" | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:53 - Oct 30 with 720 views | BloomBlue |
Sorry but what difference does that make. So what you're saying is it's OK for the Labour/Corbyn/the left to hate Jewish people because Boris Johnson has a book?
I really don't understand people like you who want to justify racism 'it's ok for us to be racist because the other side is racist'. Well actually I do understand people like you
I care about racism against Jewish people because my Wife and Son have had to face that all their life from all sides especially the left. I'm sure in your privileged little world where you're never faced racism you and your friend like to pretend you like Jewish people |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:55 - Oct 30 with 712 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:52 - Oct 30 by marcus1642 |
Pathetic, childish outburst. There is plenty of people on here who don't exactly find your extremist nonsense palatable. |
Yeah, judging from your posting history (which seems to largely involve crying about lefties) you'll have to forgive me if I just completely dismiss your post. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:56 - Oct 30 with 707 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:52 - Oct 30 by marcus1642 |
Pathetic, childish outburst. There is plenty of people on here who don't exactly find your extremist nonsense palatable. |
So?
3 years ago I was rinsed for being vegan on here, now we get monthly threads on on meat and dairy alternatives.
It’s not about what people think now but what the world will think tomorrow that matters. If you haven’t realised what’s going on in the world RN with Trump and Co now you may find yourself embarrassingly on the wrong side of history for what you’ve enabled soon.
Or Trump wins, Brexit destroys our rights and we can finally live in their fascist utopia where anyone who criticises power goes to the Gulag. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:56 - Oct 30 with 704 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 10:43 - Oct 30 by NewcyBlue |
Appreciate the detailed response.
As I say, it’s not something that I have been looking on at intently.
I always said Corbyn wasn’t the answer, but he should be the catalyst for change.
People are quite rightly judged by their associates. I think Corbyn has been very naive, and as a politician that has gotten him into a world of mess.
I don’t think laying the blame elsewhere for what happened during his leadership is entirely fair. As leader he should have had better control.
A good leader takes ownership. There were three reports into antisemitism in 2016. A number of the recommendations were still not implemented when the EHRC report was conducted.
Did a lack of action lead to the emboldening of antisemetic attitudes in the Labour Party?
How does this all fit in with the core values of the Labour Party?
Formby does indeed seem to have made some progress. Do you think some progress is better than no progress at all?
With so many incidents recorded, they can’t all be smears and political manoeuvring? There was something intrinsically wrong.
Apologies if any of the above has been mentioned already. It’s taken me ages to type this with a twin on my chest. |
I agree that the buck stops with him. But I think the context that I’m talking about surrounding the complaints procedure and the factionalism in Labour HQ is certainly a major mitigating factor and crucial to explain why Corbyn didn’t deliver. If you haven’t read it he actual Labour leaks evidence in all its nasty glory then you can take a look at this which is a pretty detailed and accurate summary:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/how-top-labour-officials-plotted-bring-dow
Taking a step back from antisemitism, you can also make a similar criticism of Corbyn’s leadership failures over Brexit policy and see a similar pattern of how that came about. Do I think Corbyn tried to the right thing with Brexit? Yes. Did it work? Absolutely not. It became a party and factional issue when the electorate needed much more clarity - and trying to explain a compromise position when People’s Vote “allies” and party members are actively briefing against that was a recipe for failure. And I remember clearly people who said they just didn’t understand Labour’s official policy going into the election, which was nothing to do with what that position was but all to do with how it had been muddied in the media.
So, let’s be aware of a context and a narrative that was being pushed in these matters. Again, that doesn’t excuse regulatory failure and absolve responsibility but it’s not as simple as that.
Here for example is an alternative narrative based on what Corbyn said and did re: antisemitism. And coming from a Jewish researcher who supports Corbyn and who has in the past specifically detailed the biased nature of the prevailing and lazily accepted media attacks:
It’s good that you want to engage and look deeper. I know if more people did then they wouldn’t have the same ease trotting out the accusations and misrepresentations of people and events. And that’s why a few of the most guilty culprits on here never do that. They can’t weaponize more objective truths. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:57 - Oct 30 with 697 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:53 - Oct 30 by BloomBlue |
Sorry but what difference does that make. So what you're saying is it's OK for the Labour/Corbyn/the left to hate Jewish people because Boris Johnson has a book?
I really don't understand people like you who want to justify racism 'it's ok for us to be racist because the other side is racist'. Well actually I do understand people like you
I care about racism against Jewish people because my Wife and Son have had to face that all their life from all sides especially the left. I'm sure in your privileged little world where you're never faced racism you and your friend like to pretend you like Jewish people |
If you cared about racism you’d be asking why this stuff gets off scott free for the Tories and why the media are complicit in it happening.
So, do you care. What I saw from your reply was no. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:01 - Oct 30 with 687 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:53 - Oct 30 by BloomBlue |
Sorry but what difference does that make. So what you're saying is it's OK for the Labour/Corbyn/the left to hate Jewish people because Boris Johnson has a book?
I really don't understand people like you who want to justify racism 'it's ok for us to be racist because the other side is racist'. Well actually I do understand people like you
I care about racism against Jewish people because my Wife and Son have had to face that all their life from all sides especially the left. I'm sure in your privileged little world where you're never faced racism you and your friend like to pretend you like Jewish people |
That's not what he said at all.
He's asking you why you only ever seem to get worked up about one particular form of racism. You're all over this thread, yet you haven't exactly been vocal in condemning racism in the many threads we have had on this subject this year, so I'd say it's a fair point. Of course, you may have a perfectly acceptable answer for this.
I think people are just looking for a little consistency in the things others find objectionable, and it is fairly easy to spot when that consistency isn't being applied. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:03 - Oct 30 with 670 views | Darth_Koont |
The Jewish Chronicle is an awful propagandizing rag. And guilty of failing IPSO press standards with several of its base accusations against individuals.
I think the Daily Mail is more balanced and definitely less right wing. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:10 - Oct 30 with 650 views | NewcyBlue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:56 - Oct 30 by Darth_Koont |
I agree that the buck stops with him. But I think the context that I’m talking about surrounding the complaints procedure and the factionalism in Labour HQ is certainly a major mitigating factor and crucial to explain why Corbyn didn’t deliver. If you haven’t read it he actual Labour leaks evidence in all its nasty glory then you can take a look at this which is a pretty detailed and accurate summary:
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/how-top-labour-officials-plotted-bring-dow
Taking a step back from antisemitism, you can also make a similar criticism of Corbyn’s leadership failures over Brexit policy and see a similar pattern of how that came about. Do I think Corbyn tried to the right thing with Brexit? Yes. Did it work? Absolutely not. It became a party and factional issue when the electorate needed much more clarity - and trying to explain a compromise position when People’s Vote “allies” and party members are actively briefing against that was a recipe for failure. And I remember clearly people who said they just didn’t understand Labour’s official policy going into the election, which was nothing to do with what that position was but all to do with how it had been muddied in the media.
So, let’s be aware of a context and a narrative that was being pushed in these matters. Again, that doesn’t excuse regulatory failure and absolve responsibility but it’s not as simple as that.
Here for example is an alternative narrative based on what Corbyn said and did re: antisemitism. And coming from a Jewish researcher who supports Corbyn and who has in the past specifically detailed the biased nature of the prevailing and lazily accepted media attacks:
It’s good that you want to engage and look deeper. I know if more people did then they wouldn’t have the same ease trotting out the accusations and misrepresentations of people and events. And that’s why a few of the most guilty culprits on here never do that. They can’t weaponize more objective truths. |
I would love to spend time reading through the Twitter feed you linked, and I will later on when I get a bit more time. I have ripped up some flooring in a bedroom and need to go to the tip etc.
You’re right about Corbyn’s leadership over Brexit. I think his willingness to compromise on certain things was a poor trait.
The free vote on the Syria bombing, when he opposed it unequivocally. I would have had more respect had he whipped.
As I say, a catalyst for change, not the answer though.
I’ll give a proper reply later on. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:20 - Oct 30 with 626 views | BloomBlue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:01 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
That's not what he said at all.
He's asking you why you only ever seem to get worked up about one particular form of racism. You're all over this thread, yet you haven't exactly been vocal in condemning racism in the many threads we have had on this subject this year, so I'd say it's a fair point. Of course, you may have a perfectly acceptable answer for this.
I think people are just looking for a little consistency in the things others find objectionable, and it is fairly easy to spot when that consistency isn't being applied. |
I could say the same about you and anti-semantic you don't seem as vocal on that form of racism. However it's irrelevant to me if you are or aren't, I don't see why that makes any difference I simply assume you feel more passionate about some areas of racism but I still understand you're against racism across the board
You're clearly trying to tag me with a type of 'lie' that I'm not really against racism, please provide the evidence
I was reading the other day your passionate post about being working class I thought that was great but just because I didn't respond doesn't mean I don't agree with it.
As I said my Wife & Son who are Jewish have faced racism constantly which is probably why I'm more passionate about that form of racism. I'm sure there are people on this site who are more passionate about other forms of racism I hope you're consistent and challenge their integrity in the future | | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:23 - Oct 30 with 604 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 12:33 - Oct 30 by SpruceMoose |
His Trump fandom makes perfect sense. His response to me asking how he felt about poor Mexican kids floating face down dead in the Rio Grande was to say:
"Maybe the parents should have thought of that eh?".
Sadly Phil deleted the comments, but other posters saw it too.
He's not a nice person, no matter how many 'mates' he hands out. |
It shouldn’t surprise anyone to learn that this is not exactly what I said. I can’t remember exact wording but it would have been something along the lines of parents being at least partially responsible if they are separated from their children in the process of breaking immigration law. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 13:23 - Oct 30 with 612 views | jeera |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 11:40 - Oct 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
On the other hand John Bercow, who is also Jewish, has known Corbyn for decades, and doesn't have an axe to grind with him unlike Berger, said he's never encountered anything remotely racist with Corbyn. |
Andrew Feinstein was adamant last night in an interview with Ch.4 news, defending Corbyn's integrity to the hilt.
Whether some people on here have an issue with Feinstein's credibility I have no idea:
https://www.channel4.com/news/i-have-never-seen-any-evidence-of-racism-of-antise |  |
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