| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) 13:07 - Oct 29 with 29358 views | Ewan_Oozami |
According to my highly dodgy Twitter feed... [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 13:10]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:05 - Oct 29 with 1319 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:27 - Oct 29 by vindicatedblue |
It's not my definition. It's the accepted definition post McPherson. |
Are you sure....
Institutional racism was defined by Sir William Macpherson in the UK's Lawrence report (1999) as: "The collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture, or ethnic origin. It can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour that amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping which disadvantage minority ethnic people.
This seems to imply a repetition of a pattern based purely on ethnicity not evidenced in this report. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:07 - Oct 29 with 1317 views | giant_stow |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:59 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
There are cranks on the left undoubtedly, antisemites and conspiracy theorists too.
But the problem with being on the left is that you do tend to see Western imperialism as more of the disease than the cure. For many decades, Israel has been the self-styled “outpost of Western democracy defending it from the barbarians” or some such racist twaddle. And it unfortunately intersects more than any other country with the worst excesses and foreign policy blind spots of the US and the UK.
This isn’t a conspiracy theory. This is history and also a critique of our politics, without even mentioning us turning a blind eye to the apartheid-like situation for Arabs and Palestinians within the borders Israel controls.
And it’s not antiSemitic to be harshly critical of that and the increasing encroachments of an Israeli government that’s getting far too much backup from our own politicians.
I also know that all of these opinions are regularly dismissed as conspiracy theories and motivated by antisemitism. So by all means, let’s look at left wing antisemitism and root it out, but let’s never take religious extremists, supremacists, nationalists, hard-core neoliberals and foreign policy hawks’ word for it. |
“outpost of Western democracy defending it from the barbarians”
Thats a serious mischaractisation fella. Swap "Barbarians" with "non democractic kingdoms / fifedoms / autocracies" or whatever the prefered term is and you'd be nearer the mark. Whatever, its about democracy, not race. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:09 - Oct 29 with 1309 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:56 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
i'm certainly not confusing those things.
my point is that there is a long running strand on the hard left whose world view mixes them together and which has a strong affinity for anti-semitism. they're the people who corbyn has been close to for the past 40 years. |
Similarly the most ardent supporters of Israel are often racists and religious extremists.
We should never listen to these extremes and have much more focus on the lives, justice and security of the people caught up in this and dealing with it on a daily basis. That’s a core value of socialism.
Labour recently rapped Stephen Kinnock on the knuckles for saying that we shouldn’t accept goods from the illegally occupied territories. WTF!? Proper leftwing parties should NOT be doing this. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:13 - Oct 29 with 1297 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:07 - Oct 29 by giant_stow |
“outpost of Western democracy defending it from the barbarians”
Thats a serious mischaractisation fella. Swap "Barbarians" with "non democractic kingdoms / fifedoms / autocracies" or whatever the prefered term is and you'd be nearer the mark. Whatever, its about democracy, not race. |
It is about race and religion though. Particularly when the Israeli and US right get together, they’ve talked about Israel as the first line of defense against Islam and those who want to take our freedom.
In the UK we just seal it off and don’t talk about it. But I strongly suspect there are similar discussions, knowing the right wing of this country. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:16 - Oct 29 with 1289 views | pointofblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:37 - Oct 29 by monytowbray |
I’m keen to see this investigated internally by the party, I want to know more about the complaints.
I agree he should have done something and sooner, but at the same time I voted Labour twice for the first time ever for Corbyn’s policies. He was hella popular with the young people (miles more than the Tories). The Corbyn “experiment failed yes, but it’s not an era to sweep entirely under the carpet, Starmer needs those same Corbyn voters on board, many of which are fed up of the market dictating society.
It does get tiresome watching Bloom and others try and say the Left has some kind of racism problem as most my social circle are quite radical and I don’t know a single anti-semite. I know plenty of my new neighbours can’t hold a 2 minute conversation without moaning about foreigners within minutes of meeting me the first time though. I’ve seen our local MP spout Nazi conspiracy theories last week. All evidence suggests the Tories have bigger problems with all forms of racism. A local councillor was suspended then quit this year with zero apology when caught being racist multiple times on Facebook.
We see the same people in all racism related threads but some only show up when it’s a stick to bash Labour with as they ignore everything else going on around them.
As I said earlier, I’d be keen to hear from those who voted for Tom Hunt how they feel about him banging on about Cultural Marxism.
Thanks for replying BTW, you are the first. And PoB too. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 17:39]
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No worries.
As harsh as it may be to say but I think the Corbyn experiment ran out of steam because of Corbyn, not necessarily because of policies, excluding the lack of clarity over the Labour Party’s approach to Brexit in the run up to last December’s election. Corbyn was able to appeal to parry members, the traditional left and the young admirers but was at a loss on how to get the centre and soft right onside. And I honestly think that was down to his presentation and delivery - it worked on the base but alienated many others. The approach worked whilst May, who had many weaknesses herself, was standing on the opposite side of the dispatch box but when he came up against someone who was able to connect with the public in an almost undefinable way it fell apart. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:18 - Oct 29 with 1285 views | BlueForYou |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:03 - Oct 29 by RegencyBlue |
Don’t think he had any choice once Corbyn didn’t accept the outcome of the enquiry. |
At last..!! Hes taken Labour to the dogs. If people wanted a far left government then they would have voted for it. The fact it was rejected massively speaks volumes. Take Butler, Abbott, McDonnell, Lammy, & co with you. All of them unelectable. Bad day for the Far left brigade. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:18 - Oct 29 with 1283 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:02 - Oct 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
So what do you expect me, as a Labour voter, to do about it? |
I wouldn't think there's anything that can be done about it now. I'd like to see all Labour supporters get behind Starmer though. Even if he's not 'socialist enough' for some, a Labour government under him would be infinitely better than the sh*tshow we have now. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:27 - Oct 29 with 1254 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:18 - Oct 29 by Swansea_Blue |
I wouldn't think there's anything that can be done about it now. I'd like to see all Labour supporters get behind Starmer though. Even if he's not 'socialist enough' for some, a Labour government under him would be infinitely better than the sh*tshow we have now. |
I don’t subscribe to that unfortunately. Better off in the short term (because they’re not the Tories) but rather continuing the long-term direction of travel of the UK that has brought us to where we are now ... Stuck in the past, unable to handle the present and clueless about the future.
Now I just want Scotland to leave, Wales and NI to decide for themselves too and England to pull its head out of its @rse as a result. Understanding that soft centre-right politics doesn’t offer any alternative or resistance to right wing populism is the first step that might prevent a lot worse stuff from happening. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:43 - Oct 29 with 1219 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:56 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
i'm certainly not confusing those things.
my point is that there is a long running strand on the hard left whose world view mixes them together and which has a strong affinity for anti-semitism. they're the people who corbyn has been close to for the past 40 years. |
But those people aren’t left wing. To believe that is principally un-left wing. It’s like saying Conservatives have a problem with anarchism.
And As I’ve said again, I hang out in circles with various strains and extremes of left wing. I don’t know a single anti-semite. It simply does not add up.
The people currently being radicalised by anti-semite conspiracy theories are the anti-maskers (no political affiliation), Qanoners (who think Trump is the saviour of trafficked children), ACTUAL Nazis (well, obviously not left wing) or any Brexiter who bangs on about Cultural Marxism (Who seem to love Farage and Johnson).
There are left wing angles people fall down these holes too, such as the Zionist elites rule the world via George Soros nonsense, but most of those I’ve encountered also tend to be very far right and get their news via Infowars (again, not a left wing news source).
But again, as a closing statement, the moment you start becoming a racist you leave your left wing card at the desk and leave the office. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 18:44]
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:49 - Oct 29 with 1204 views | monytowbray |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:07 - Oct 29 by giant_stow |
“outpost of Western democracy defending it from the barbarians”
Thats a serious mischaractisation fella. Swap "Barbarians" with "non democractic kingdoms / fifedoms / autocracies" or whatever the prefered term is and you'd be nearer the mark. Whatever, its about democracy, not race. |
Problem is the West see the Middle East as an economic toy and those who live there as less than human through, ya know, racism.
Almost every problem in the ME stems from or has been encouraged by Western interference with fuel stockages at heart. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 19:33 - Oct 29 with 1163 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 17:59 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
There are cranks on the left undoubtedly, antisemites and conspiracy theorists too.
But the problem with being on the left is that you do tend to see Western imperialism as more of the disease than the cure. For many decades, Israel has been the self-styled “outpost of Western democracy defending it from the barbarians” or some such racist twaddle. And it unfortunately intersects more than any other country with the worst excesses and foreign policy blind spots of the US and the UK.
This isn’t a conspiracy theory. This is history and also a critique of our politics, without even mentioning us turning a blind eye to the apartheid-like situation for Arabs and Palestinians within the borders Israel controls.
And it’s not antiSemitic to be harshly critical of that and the increasing encroachments of an Israeli government that’s getting far too much backup from our own politicians.
I also know that all of these opinions are regularly dismissed as conspiracy theories and motivated by antisemitism. So by all means, let’s look at left wing antisemitism and root it out, but let’s never take religious extremists, supremacists, nationalists, hard-core neoliberals and foreign policy hawks’ word for it. |
but you never supported rooting it out. all of the things that the ehrc report has pointed to were things you made excuses for. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 19:37 - Oct 29 with 1149 views | Ryorry |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 16:29 - Oct 29 by Swansea_Blue |
It's all a bit People's Front of Judea isn't it? Somebody should bang their heads together and point out the damage their infighting has done to the country by starving us of decent opposition at possibly the most critical period since WW2.
And yes, I realise that each side will probably point out that it's their 'other' half that's causing the damage! |
There was a psychologist on R5l this morning talking about family members falling out over positions on methods of dealing with Covid - lockdown v no lockdown etc.
She pointed out that ppl usually get to loggerheads in these situations because they immediately come into it at the extrme ends of polarisation.
If they both approached it from the middle - ie asking "what have we got in common, how can we work things out to achieve what we both want" - the conflict would be more likely to be resolved without falling out & with both parties gaining what they want, at least partially. |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:00 - Oct 29 with 1123 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 19:33 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
but you never supported rooting it out. all of the things that the ehrc report has pointed to were things you made excuses for. |
Have you read the full report? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:14 - Oct 29 with 1094 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 18:18 - Oct 29 by BlueForYou |
At last..!! Hes taken Labour to the dogs. If people wanted a far left government then they would have voted for it. The fact it was rejected massively speaks volumes. Take Butler, Abbott, McDonnell, Lammy, & co with you. All of them unelectable. Bad day for the Far left brigade. |
It should be the end of this quasi Marxist takeover of the Labour Party so at least some good will come of it |  |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:16 - Oct 29 with 1094 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 19:33 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
but you never supported rooting it out. all of the things that the ehrc report has pointed to were things you made excuses for. |
You what? When did I say that complaints shouldn’t be handled quickly and responsibly?
The Labour leaks were an eye-opener there because I had no idea so little was done between 2016 and 2018 plus how utterly swamped they were by complaints and too many of them frivolous.
I knew it was politicised and weaponised on the outside but had no idea how much of that was going on inside too. Do you think staffers turning a blind eye helped? Do you think that the LAAS’s 15,000 page submission or Hodges 200 complaints that turned out to be 20 Labour members helped that? Or that one other person accounted for over half the total of complaints and clogged up the system with requests for status updates?
Are those people who wanted quick and responsible handling of AS complaints?
I feel sorry for the Jewish community (both anti- and pro-Corbyn) that have had to go through this. Hopefully, we’ll not only see better procedures from an independent complaints handling process but also I expect to see the complaints submitted to be less about driving the EHRC to get involved and more about ensuring that antisemitism isn’t tolerated.
This whole episode is a stain on the Labour Party and they need to ensure it never happens again. But it’s a stain on our politics that it’s been so publicly played out to score points. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:22 - Oct 29 with 1078 views | solomon |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 19:33 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
but you never supported rooting it out. all of the things that the ehrc report has pointed to were things you made excuses for. |
Unfortunately your comments will fall on deaf ears in some quarters, the level of denial from some on here is deeply disturbing and should serve as a reminder of why we need to fight racism wherever we find it. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:22 - Oct 29 with 1077 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:14 - Oct 29 by 26_Paz |
It should be the end of this quasi Marxist takeover of the Labour Party so at least some good will come of it |
As the forum's premier racist, that you have the gall to even comment on this is staggering. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 20:24]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:24 - Oct 29 with 1064 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:22 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
As the forum's premier racist, that you have the gall to even comment on this is staggering. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 20:24]
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As always your accusation is completely unfounded. If you can find one racist comment I’ve posted on this forum I will leave immediately. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:28 - Oct 29 with 1058 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:22 - Oct 29 by solomon |
Unfortunately your comments will fall on deaf ears in some quarters, the level of denial from some on here is deeply disturbing and should serve as a reminder of why we need to fight racism wherever we find it. |
And take away the politics that gets in the way of fighting racism.
If that means shutting down people on the left or right who end up embracing racism via their politics then that’s just as good too. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:34 - Oct 29 with 1038 views | lowhouseblue |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:16 - Oct 29 by Darth_Koont |
You what? When did I say that complaints shouldn’t be handled quickly and responsibly?
The Labour leaks were an eye-opener there because I had no idea so little was done between 2016 and 2018 plus how utterly swamped they were by complaints and too many of them frivolous.
I knew it was politicised and weaponised on the outside but had no idea how much of that was going on inside too. Do you think staffers turning a blind eye helped? Do you think that the LAAS’s 15,000 page submission or Hodges 200 complaints that turned out to be 20 Labour members helped that? Or that one other person accounted for over half the total of complaints and clogged up the system with requests for status updates?
Are those people who wanted quick and responsible handling of AS complaints?
I feel sorry for the Jewish community (both anti- and pro-Corbyn) that have had to go through this. Hopefully, we’ll not only see better procedures from an independent complaints handling process but also I expect to see the complaints submitted to be less about driving the EHRC to get involved and more about ensuring that antisemitism isn’t tolerated.
This whole episode is a stain on the Labour Party and they need to ensure it never happens again. But it’s a stain on our politics that it’s been so publicly played out to score points. |
the sound of history being re-written. why not just fess up and get it over with? you excused people like williamson because it was politically convenient. we all realised that anyway.
under corbyn labour broke the law and tolerated harassment and discrimination. and you call all that being exposed 'weaponisation'. nice. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:35 - Oct 29 with 1038 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:24 - Oct 29 by 26_Paz |
As always your accusation is completely unfounded. If you can find one racist comment I’ve posted on this forum I will leave immediately. |
I take it you're excluding your comments about piccaninnies from this gambit?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Are you excluding your post about Mexican kids deserving to be seperated from their families?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Are you excluding your posts objecting to footballers taking a knee?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Sadly, we both know you won't go anywhere.
That's not even touching on your vocal support of Trump and Johnson. I guess you must just be accidentally racist. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 20:37]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:40 - Oct 29 with 1014 views | 26_Paz |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:35 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
I take it you're excluding your comments about piccaninnies from this gambit?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Are you excluding your post about Mexican kids deserving to be seperated from their families?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Are you excluding your posts objecting to footballers taking a knee?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Sadly, we both know you won't go anywhere.
That's not even touching on your vocal support of Trump and Johnson. I guess you must just be accidentally racist. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 20:37]
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Direct quote of a racist comment I’ve made and I’m gone. I don’t see any there | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:44 - Oct 29 with 1012 views | bazza |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:35 - Oct 29 by SpruceMoose |
I take it you're excluding your comments about piccaninnies from this gambit?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Are you excluding your post about Mexican kids deserving to be seperated from their families?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Are you excluding your posts objecting to footballers taking a knee?
Otherwise I'd only have to link to that thread and you'd disappear.
Sadly, we both know you won't go anywhere.
That's not even touching on your vocal support of Trump and Johnson. I guess you must just be accidentally racist. [Post edited 29 Oct 2020 20:37]
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Quite disturbing that out of 7 pages on this topic, you chose to single out Paz again, like someone else clearly pointed out, voting labour doesn’t make you racist anymore than voting conservative does, Your only argument is to call people racist xenophobic or homophobic... your really quite sad to be honest. |  | | |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:48 - Oct 29 with 1004 views | Darth_Koont |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:34 - Oct 29 by lowhouseblue |
the sound of history being re-written. why not just fess up and get it over with? you excused people like williamson because it was politically convenient. we all realised that anyway.
under corbyn labour broke the law and tolerated harassment and discrimination. and you call all that being exposed 'weaponisation'. nice. |
I excuse people from the OTT attacks that you’re so fond of.
But that’s the thing I don’t think he did tolerate it and I do think it was weaponised. Yes, he and the party hold ultimately responsibility for the procedure failures but the Labour leaks are pretty clear about who and why a lot of this came about.
That’s either not in EHRC’s remit or they didn’t care. It’s academic because the recommendation to make the process independent will remove the factional and political elements automatically (you would hope).
I now await the Forde inquiry with the utter belief that it’s going to sweep all that under the rug. And you will applaud them for it. | |
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| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 21:29 - Oct 29 with 951 views | SpruceMoose |
| Corbyn suspended... (n/t) on 20:40 - Oct 29 by 26_Paz |
Direct quote of a racist comment I’ve made and I’m gone. I don’t see any there |
No need. Everyone knows. You're a racist. Report me if you disagree. I'm off for a beer. I'll check back later! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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