| My conscience is clear 22:16 - Oct 31 with 7588 views | pistonbroke |
People were saying don’t vote for Corbyn , when there was only one alternative to a Tory majority which happened , who do you now blame , look at yourself in the mirror and if you voted other than labour then blame yourselves |  | | |  |
| My conscience is clear on 22:26 - Oct 31 with 2912 views | ghostofescobar |
I have voted Labour all my life. Under no circumstances would I ever, ever vote Tory. I detest almost everything that they stand for. They appall me. Sicken me at times. Make me despair. Shake my belief in this country and why they keep getting voted in. But in my heart, and my head, I shudder to think how Corbyn and McDonald would have handled this. Sixth form politics doesn’t always make for an effective government. If Starmer had been in charge for a couple of years, different matter altogether. |  |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:28 - Oct 31 with 2893 views | pointofblue |
Just because the current incumbents are incompent fools (to put it mildly) doesn't mean the so called official opposition would have been any better. The two main parties offered dire choices last December and I couldn't vote, with good conscience, for either. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:30 - Oct 31 with 2883 views | HARRY10 |
| My conscience is clear on 22:26 - Oct 31 by ghostofescobar |
I have voted Labour all my life. Under no circumstances would I ever, ever vote Tory. I detest almost everything that they stand for. They appall me. Sicken me at times. Make me despair. Shake my belief in this country and why they keep getting voted in. But in my heart, and my head, I shudder to think how Corbyn and McDonald would have handled this. Sixth form politics doesn’t always make for an effective government. If Starmer had been in charge for a couple of years, different matter altogether. |
They might have dealt with it by not appointing a cabinet of total incompetents | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 22:32 - Oct 31 with 2869 views | pointofblue |
| My conscience is clear on 22:30 - Oct 31 by HARRY10 |
They might have dealt with it by not appointing a cabinet of total incompetents |
Not sure why it wouldn't have been much different from the shadow cabinet but... possibly. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:33 - Oct 31 with 2861 views | ghostofescobar |
| My conscience is clear on 22:30 - Oct 31 by HARRY10 |
They might have dealt with it by not appointing a cabinet of total incompetents |
Fair point. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:39 - Oct 31 with 2834 views | Ryorry |
| My conscience is clear on 22:32 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
Not sure why it wouldn't have been much different from the shadow cabinet but... possibly. |
Most senior Labour MPs aren't either corrupt, utterly brainless, completely uncaring about anyone except themselves, or lacking in any integrity whatsoever. Therefore a Labour cabinet would have been significantly different from the current bunch of scummy pretenders in office. [Post edited 31 Oct 2020 22:40]
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| My conscience is clear on 22:42 - Oct 31 with 2827 views | HARRY10 |
| My conscience is clear on 22:32 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
Not sure why it wouldn't have been much different from the shadow cabinet but... possibly. |
Maybe Corbyn would not have swanned off on a 12 day holiday when the virus started to spread, Maybe Corbyn would nit have ducked out of five COBRA meetings.
Maybe Corbyn would have worked with the EU on an effective track and trace system, would not have handed so many contracts to his mates............
The point though, is how Johnson continual failings on this matter compare to other countries, not what another government might have done. | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 22:43 - Oct 31 with 2817 views | pointofblue |
| My conscience is clear on 22:39 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
Most senior Labour MPs aren't either corrupt, utterly brainless, completely uncaring about anyone except themselves, or lacking in any integrity whatsoever. Therefore a Labour cabinet would have been significantly different from the current bunch of scummy pretenders in office. [Post edited 31 Oct 2020 22:40]
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True, though I do think it would have still be shambolic albeit for different reasons. We will never know and calling out people who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn (especially those who didn't vote for Johnson either) is hardly productive. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:46 - Oct 31 with 2806 views | pistonbroke |
| My conscience is clear on 22:43 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
True, though I do think it would have still be shambolic albeit for different reasons. We will never know and calling out people who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn (especially those who didn't vote for Johnson either) is hardly productive. |
How , then was only one alternative who had a chance of halting a Tory majority , voting for another party was like putting a tick in the Tory box | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 22:47 - Oct 31 with 2803 views | jaykay |
one thing is for sure. if labour were in power at the moment, there would be no minsters or mates of mps with their nose in the trough. making money out of p.p.e deals or brexit deals |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:49 - Oct 31 with 2787 views | pistonbroke |
| My conscience is clear on 22:47 - Oct 31 by jaykay |
one thing is for sure. if labour were in power at the moment, there would be no minsters or mates of mps with their nose in the trough. making money out of p.p.e deals or brexit deals |
Or track and trace deals | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 22:49 - Oct 31 with 2782 views | pointofblue |
| My conscience is clear on 22:46 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke |
How , then was only one alternative who had a chance of halting a Tory majority , voting for another party was like putting a tick in the Tory box |
Then what's the point of the other parties? They may as well be scrapped if the only choice is Conservative or Labour, no matter what they might stand for.
I read each manifesto prior to the election (I am that sad) and the Green's were closest in my view so I voted for them. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:52 - Oct 31 with 2768 views | Ryorry |
| My conscience is clear on 22:49 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke |
Or track and trace deals |
That 12 billion and Dido Harding is such an abcess for the country, never stops angering me. Surely there must be some way of bringing criminal charges, surely ... | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:52 - Oct 31 with 2769 views | DublinBlue84 |
| My conscience is clear on 22:28 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
Just because the current incumbents are incompent fools (to put it mildly) doesn't mean the so called official opposition would have been any better. The two main parties offered dire choices last December and I couldn't vote, with good conscience, for either. |
Pretty much the same for me, as someone who would mostly be a centrist politically, who would be centre left on a number of issues and centre-right on less, I've always voted Labour my whole life until Corbyn got into power.
The last election I was left with a fully fledged left wing Labour Party or a fully fledged right wing Tory party. I agnoised about it for days about whether I could vote for Corbyn or not, but in the end I just couldn't do it as he'd moved the Labour party too far to the left for a moderate like myself.
I've encountered Corbyn in the flesh on one occasion and I have to say, despite the fact many claim he's got morals, doesn't play games, and doesn't resort to the spin like the Tories does and he's a honest politician, what I saw from him suggested he was just as likely to take part in these kind of things of any other politician. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 22:56 - Oct 31 with 2748 views | pistonbroke |
| My conscience is clear on 22:49 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
Then what's the point of the other parties? They may as well be scrapped if the only choice is Conservative or Labour, no matter what they might stand for.
I read each manifesto prior to the election (I am that sad) and the Green's were closest in my view so I voted for them. |
There is no point , you have to ask yourself do you want the tories in power , if the answer is no then there is only one place to put your tick on the form , anything else is a waste | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 23:00 - Oct 31 with 2734 views | Ryorry |
| My conscience is clear on 22:52 - Oct 31 by DublinBlue84 |
Pretty much the same for me, as someone who would mostly be a centrist politically, who would be centre left on a number of issues and centre-right on less, I've always voted Labour my whole life until Corbyn got into power.
The last election I was left with a fully fledged left wing Labour Party or a fully fledged right wing Tory party. I agnoised about it for days about whether I could vote for Corbyn or not, but in the end I just couldn't do it as he'd moved the Labour party too far to the left for a moderate like myself.
I've encountered Corbyn in the flesh on one occasion and I have to say, despite the fact many claim he's got morals, doesn't play games, and doesn't resort to the spin like the Tories does and he's a honest politician, what I saw from him suggested he was just as likely to take part in these kind of things of any other politician. |
The thing sticking out like a sore thumb for me about JC was that for all he was described as being intelligent & having huge integrity by the momentum people he appealed to, he never actually demonstrated it.
If he'd had those things, he'd have stood down from the leadership at latest by last autumn, if not before.
If he'd had those things, he'd also have issued an unequivocal apology yesterday for the antisemitism occurring within the LP on his watch, instead of quibbling about how *many* cases of antisemitism there were. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 23:01 - Oct 31 with 2727 views | Ryorry |
| My conscience is clear on 22:56 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke |
There is no point , you have to ask yourself do you want the tories in power , if the answer is no then there is only one place to put your tick on the form , anything else is a waste |
Depending on your constituency of course. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 23:05 - Oct 31 with 2712 views | DublinBlue84 |
| My conscience is clear on 22:56 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke |
There is no point , you have to ask yourself do you want the tories in power , if the answer is no then there is only one place to put your tick on the form , anything else is a waste |
This is the problem with the cult that Corbyn has created in the Labour Party.
Because the Tories won the election instead of trying to figure out why people found it hard to vote for Labour, the likes of Momentum started to blame the voters for not voting the way that they 'should have' and that this was the reason they didn't win an election.
Astute politicians realise that it's better to act in a way which broadens your appeal to the masses that makes it possible to win an election, rather than go for a policy that makes 20% of the country go crazy for it and everyone else ignore it.
There's a reason that Jeremy Corbyn was as unique as he was and the fact that people like him don't come along often, which will be the same reason as there won't be many people like that in the future - such people cannot and do not win elections.
I hate the Tories with a passion, but they realised in the last 10 years or so, that compromising on their position and tweaking their policies to attract greater number of voters is required to win elections. Corbyn was never prepared to do that which meant many voters got disenfranchised and simply stopped voting Labour. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 23:06 - Oct 31 with 2707 views | pistonbroke |
| My conscience is clear on 23:01 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
Depending on your constituency of course. |
Not really , there are only 2 parties who can get in , why vote for anyone else | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 23:12 - Oct 31 with 2686 views | wkj |
In the spirit of fairness, even though i'm centre-left, I have to stand up against tribalism as best I can, even if it is from people with similar leanings to myself. I don't think anyone should be shamed for how they vote if it based upon a genuine belief or beliefs they hold.
As we've seen, both Labour and Tory parties have let a good number of their voters down over the recent years, but the troubling thing is the solution. May would have been the perfect PM in this situation (for anyone in that party). So, more questions should be asked of those who put Johnson in power when the leadership was being filled.
This is the problem we face when a manifesto is built off of a hot topic (brexit) and a slagging match with the opposition.
I don't think the Tory party will lose out too much in the midst of all of this though. They have enough ammo to poke at Labour, and a society who are starting to lean more towards a return to their quality of life rather than hiding from the silent enemy (covid) |  |
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| My conscience is clear on 23:14 - Oct 31 with 2676 views | Ryorry |
| My conscience is clear on 23:06 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke |
Not really , there are only 2 parties who can get in , why vote for anyone else |
Well where a Tory has a 20K majority such as in my own constituency eg, you can be fairly sure that whatever other party you vote for will be a wasted vote. So you might as well vote with your heart (Green in my case) as your head (Labour, usually for me).
As it happened I did hold my nose & vote Labour in Dec 19, and put around the view locally that if all natural labour supporters (which I am usually) had the courage of their convictions, then it was possible to overturn the blue pillar of stone. But it needed a miracle, which obviously didn't happen. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 23:21 - Oct 31 with 2657 views | pistonbroke |
| My conscience is clear on 23:14 - Oct 31 by Ryorry |
Well where a Tory has a 20K majority such as in my own constituency eg, you can be fairly sure that whatever other party you vote for will be a wasted vote. So you might as well vote with your heart (Green in my case) as your head (Labour, usually for me).
As it happened I did hold my nose & vote Labour in Dec 19, and put around the view locally that if all natural labour supporters (which I am usually) had the courage of their convictions, then it was possible to overturn the blue pillar of stone. But it needed a miracle, which obviously didn't happen. |
Unfortunately where I live in Chelmsford is a Tory stronghold always has been , but if you added up the votes of the other parties then it would get the Tory scum out | | | |
| My conscience is clear on 23:26 - Oct 31 with 2645 views | nodge_blue |
If Corbyn listens to his brother then they’d be no lockdown ever as it’s all a conspiracy to keep the working classes suppressed. |  |
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| My conscience is clear on 23:36 - Oct 31 with 2613 views | DublinBlue84 |
| My conscience is clear on 23:12 - Oct 31 by wkj |
In the spirit of fairness, even though i'm centre-left, I have to stand up against tribalism as best I can, even if it is from people with similar leanings to myself. I don't think anyone should be shamed for how they vote if it based upon a genuine belief or beliefs they hold.
As we've seen, both Labour and Tory parties have let a good number of their voters down over the recent years, but the troubling thing is the solution. May would have been the perfect PM in this situation (for anyone in that party). So, more questions should be asked of those who put Johnson in power when the leadership was being filled.
This is the problem we face when a manifesto is built off of a hot topic (brexit) and a slagging match with the opposition.
I don't think the Tory party will lose out too much in the midst of all of this though. They have enough ammo to poke at Labour, and a society who are starting to lean more towards a return to their quality of life rather than hiding from the silent enemy (covid) |
I was never a fan of Theresa May and felt she was a terrible PM, but she was 100x better than the fool that we have in charge now who admittedly, would make anyone look good in comparison.
I think Starmer has started well and the current issue with Corbyn is one that he was always going to have to address for the party to move on. It's vital for the country that he can win that battle against the left and re-unite the party and take it to the Tories at the next election.
I think that Starmer will be a far bigger threat to the Tories than Corbyn ever was, but to do that he needs to shake off the baggage that he has inherited in the Labour Party and the reasons it is at such a low ebb at the end of Corbyn's time and whether he is successful at doing that, will have a direct influence on his chances come election time.
The Tories have already destroyed too much of our country, another win for them could do even more lasting damage that it may be impossible to reverse. | |
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| My conscience is clear on 00:15 - Nov 1 with 2559 views | Clapham_Junction |
| My conscience is clear on 22:26 - Oct 31 by ghostofescobar |
I have voted Labour all my life. Under no circumstances would I ever, ever vote Tory. I detest almost everything that they stand for. They appall me. Sicken me at times. Make me despair. Shake my belief in this country and why they keep getting voted in. But in my heart, and my head, I shudder to think how Corbyn and McDonald would have handled this. Sixth form politics doesn’t always make for an effective government. If Starmer had been in charge for a couple of years, different matter altogether. |
Based on my experience of working in local government, and having been closely following what happens in central government since the mid-2000s, I would say that Labour politicians (from across the spectrum) tend to listen to and trust the experts more (so we might have had an earlier lockdown) and play politics less (so I don't think we'd have seen the confrontations like that with Burnham). I also think they'd have dealt with the situation with more compassion.
Ashworth was kept on as shadow heath secretary by Starmer, so clearly he's a trusted pair of hands with that portfolio. |  | | |
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