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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re 22:27 - Oct 31 with 2702 viewsRyorry

conditions in their own educational establishments, what does the TWTD Brains Trust make of tonight's statement by the Prime * saying that schools, colleges & Unis will be allowed to remain open despite the lockdown?

Further mix of views here -

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:20 - Oct 31 with 1464 viewswkj

Schools are always hotbeds for infections and teachers know this. I hope that the government and those weird academy things invest more resources in distance learning contingencies going forwards.

Granted, not all kids have access to the internet, which poses a spanner in the works somewhat, but we have to be realistic, this will happen again in our life time as we're at a biological tipping point for viral mutations.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:24 - Oct 31 with 1453 viewsNthsuffolkblue

The main teaching union view on it here: https://neu.org.uk/press-releases/circuit-breaker-secondary-schools-and-post-16

The petition to Government here: https://actionnetwork.org/forms/close-schools-and-colleges-now

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:25 - Oct 31 with 1456 viewspistonbroke

Like I have said in a previous post , there is some of us who had to work through the previous lockdown as well , teachers did not , anyway considering the 2 biggest places of infection are universities/ schools and the work place , then surely these are the places to lockdown to get rid of the virus
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:26 - Oct 31 with 1451 viewsDublinBlue84

I've made my point in another thread, but reproducing it below.

As someone who works in education, I really was supportive of schools re-opening in September, as long as it was safe to do so and that sensible anti COVID measures were put in place and the students attending such schools acted in a way that did not put people at risk. That would have involved mandatory mask wearing and social distancing.

However over the past few weeks it's become completely obvious by the numbers that not only have the Government not enforced required social distancing and mask wearing in schools as much as they should, but also too many students have shown that they are not able to act in a way which creates an environment which is safe for a school to operate in which safeguards those at risk.

The figures for the infection rates across the young are simple for all to see. They are the key drivers of infection and action has to be taken to stop this. Failing to do so is a massive failure of the Government's duty to protect it's citizens and will directly lead to scores of innocent people using their lives, either directly from their inaction, or as a knock on effect of the health system becoming overwhelmed.

Here's the figures in question.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElrsFgzXEAEmISM?format=jpg&name=large

Staff working in schools, unlike students, would be far more at risk of being seriously ill from the virus and are now going to be forced to work in environments where there are large numbers of people of the age range where the virus is most active. People in the 16-29 bracket are also those whom in my eyes are the least likely to be adhering to social distancing guidelines or other covid guidelines in general.

Essentially the School and College staff who have stuck to all the guidelines since March will then have to risk their own health to serve those who don't care about the health of the staff as the Government has told the staff that these people must carry on their jobs and if they get seriously ill or worse then they're necessary collateral in the whole thing.

I've seen the argument on this board that very few school staff have suffered from COVID so schools should stay open. That's folly because during the first wave the virus was nowhere near as widespread in the young and during the last lockdown schools were only open for key workers. This time around the virus is more common among students than any other age range and everyone is in school rather than a very small amount of key workers children in very small class sizes which means the risk is much higher to staff this time around.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:30 - Oct 31 with 1439 viewsStokieBlue

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:26 - Oct 31 by DublinBlue84

I've made my point in another thread, but reproducing it below.

As someone who works in education, I really was supportive of schools re-opening in September, as long as it was safe to do so and that sensible anti COVID measures were put in place and the students attending such schools acted in a way that did not put people at risk. That would have involved mandatory mask wearing and social distancing.

However over the past few weeks it's become completely obvious by the numbers that not only have the Government not enforced required social distancing and mask wearing in schools as much as they should, but also too many students have shown that they are not able to act in a way which creates an environment which is safe for a school to operate in which safeguards those at risk.

The figures for the infection rates across the young are simple for all to see. They are the key drivers of infection and action has to be taken to stop this. Failing to do so is a massive failure of the Government's duty to protect it's citizens and will directly lead to scores of innocent people using their lives, either directly from their inaction, or as a knock on effect of the health system becoming overwhelmed.

Here's the figures in question.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElrsFgzXEAEmISM?format=jpg&name=large

Staff working in schools, unlike students, would be far more at risk of being seriously ill from the virus and are now going to be forced to work in environments where there are large numbers of people of the age range where the virus is most active. People in the 16-29 bracket are also those whom in my eyes are the least likely to be adhering to social distancing guidelines or other covid guidelines in general.

Essentially the School and College staff who have stuck to all the guidelines since March will then have to risk their own health to serve those who don't care about the health of the staff as the Government has told the staff that these people must carry on their jobs and if they get seriously ill or worse then they're necessary collateral in the whole thing.

I've seen the argument on this board that very few school staff have suffered from COVID so schools should stay open. That's folly because during the first wave the virus was nowhere near as widespread in the young and during the last lockdown schools were only open for key workers. This time around the virus is more common among students than any other age range and everyone is in school rather than a very small amount of key workers children in very small class sizes which means the risk is much higher to staff this time around.


Are you specifically referring to secondary schools or are you including primary schools?

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:30 - Oct 31 with 1441 viewsDublinBlue84

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:25 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke

Like I have said in a previous post , there is some of us who had to work through the previous lockdown as well , teachers did not , anyway considering the 2 biggest places of infection are universities/ schools and the work place , then surely these are the places to lockdown to get rid of the virus


If you think that nobody was working in school during the last lockdown then you need to get a reality check. I know some staff members who have worked right through the holidays and in one case someone last week had only their third weekday off since March.

Many of my colleagues were working far more hours than they would have been if the schools were open, calling students all hours of the day, posting resources to those who didn't have internet access, planning lessons at night and trying to get the relevant evidence together to submit to exam boards predicted grades in lieu of real exams.

I'm sick to death of this view that everyone working in the education did nothing over lockdown. It's completely ill-informed, just like the people who believe that during the summer holidays that teachers have six weeks off and do nothing during them, which is yet another myth, A whole academic year doesn't get planned by itself you know.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:34 - Oct 31 with 1422 viewsjaykay

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:20 - Oct 31 by wkj

Schools are always hotbeds for infections and teachers know this. I hope that the government and those weird academy things invest more resources in distance learning contingencies going forwards.

Granted, not all kids have access to the internet, which poses a spanner in the works somewhat, but we have to be realistic, this will happen again in our life time as we're at a biological tipping point for viral mutations.


i mean who on earth would put in their manifesto something about free broadband for all

bring back callis ,young footers and let phil ham back in the press box

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:38 - Oct 31 with 1415 viewsDublinBlue84

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:30 - Oct 31 by StokieBlue

Are you specifically referring to secondary schools or are you including primary schools?

SB


I was more referring to secondary schools and colleges/universities.

However I would say it would be quite hard to keep primary schools open when you are closing the others.

One thing I can say though is we should still be keeping Primary/High schools open for key workers children and those who are vulnerable, in small, socially distanced class sizes.

Poll: What result on Tuesday is best for the club?

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:39 - Oct 31 with 1402 viewspistonbroke

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:30 - Oct 31 by DublinBlue84

If you think that nobody was working in school during the last lockdown then you need to get a reality check. I know some staff members who have worked right through the holidays and in one case someone last week had only their third weekday off since March.

Many of my colleagues were working far more hours than they would have been if the schools were open, calling students all hours of the day, posting resources to those who didn't have internet access, planning lessons at night and trying to get the relevant evidence together to submit to exam boards predicted grades in lieu of real exams.

I'm sick to death of this view that everyone working in the education did nothing over lockdown. It's completely ill-informed, just like the people who believe that during the summer holidays that teachers have six weeks off and do nothing during them, which is yet another myth, A whole academic year doesn't get planned by itself you know.


Working from the safety of their home or mixing with 100,s of other households , yeah I know schools had to stay open for a few key workers children but the majority were working from home , I rest my case
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:39 - Oct 31 with 1402 viewsNthsuffolkblue

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:25 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke

Like I have said in a previous post , there is some of us who had to work through the previous lockdown as well , teachers did not , anyway considering the 2 biggest places of infection are universities/ schools and the work place , then surely these are the places to lockdown to get rid of the virus


What does "teachers did not" mean?

What do you think we were doing when all the students were working from home? Sitting with our feet up wishing them luck with finding the work to do?

My job may have been very different for the past 7 months but it certainly hasn't been sitting around. I worked through the past lockdown, I worked this half term and I am working through this lockdown. I hate it when people fall for these lies that we are not working.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:41 - Oct 31 with 1394 viewsNthsuffolkblue

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:39 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke

Working from the safety of their home or mixing with 100,s of other households , yeah I know schools had to stay open for a few key workers children but the majority were working from home , I rest my case


No you don't!

We were WORKING from home as well as going in to work. Stop talking about something you haven't got half a clue about.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:42 - Oct 31 with 1383 viewsjeera

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:34 - Oct 31 by jaykay

i mean who on earth would put in their manifesto something about free broadband for all


I wonder what the costing would be for that.

Not trying to be clever as I honestly have no idea.

I do reckon though to just supply it to the poorest household with school age children would be significantly less than the £12 billion lost so far on a non-efficient test and trace system.

Hell, I'm going push the imaginary ferry out and suggest it would be better value than throwing money at Grayling to flush down the English Channel.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:43 - Oct 31 with 1376 viewspistonbroke

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:41 - Oct 31 by Nthsuffolkblue

No you don't!

We were WORKING from home as well as going in to work. Stop talking about something you haven't got half a clue about.


A lot of people did not have the option for working at home in their safe environments
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:48 - Oct 31 with 1358 viewsDublinBlue84

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:39 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke

Working from the safety of their home or mixing with 100,s of other households , yeah I know schools had to stay open for a few key workers children but the majority were working from home , I rest my case


Well I can tell you that whilst myself and some of my colleagues were working from home, we were all going into schools every week, either to teach key workers children or for other reasons, since we had to get our hands on paperwork, students work and confidential documents that could not be taken off-site

In addition submissions to exam boards for predicted grades required educational providers to be able to provide a wealth of evidence to back each grade up for each student which was a massive task when you consider you basically need to get a file together for every student and review what is in every single file for every subject in case the exam board decide to use their right to ask for proof of your decision.

As stated previously as well, not all students have access to the internet or are able to learn online. For these people we needed to send huge amounts of resources via post which required lots of printing in school and that required someone to go in and do these things and then to post them and this was happening on a weekly basis.

Don't worry though, it looks like next week, school staff are going to have to mix with hundreds of people from the groups with the biggest rate of COVID who couldn't care less if they passed COVID to school staff or not whilst being told that they cannot see a single member of their family in who took all the precautions because apparently that is unsafe.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2020 23:54]

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:50 - Oct 31 with 1348 viewsNthsuffolkblue

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:43 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke

A lot of people did not have the option for working at home in their safe environments


Fair enough if you are pointing out we worked from home but what you actually said was teachers did not work. We worked jolly hard working from home doing the very best for our students we could I can assure you.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:56 - Oct 31 with 1302 viewspistonbroke

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:48 - Oct 31 by DublinBlue84

Well I can tell you that whilst myself and some of my colleagues were working from home, we were all going into schools every week, either to teach key workers children or for other reasons, since we had to get our hands on paperwork, students work and confidential documents that could not be taken off-site

In addition submissions to exam boards for predicted grades required educational providers to be able to provide a wealth of evidence to back each grade up for each student which was a massive task when you consider you basically need to get a file together for every student and review what is in every single file for every subject in case the exam board decide to use their right to ask for proof of your decision.

As stated previously as well, not all students have access to the internet or are able to learn online. For these people we needed to send huge amounts of resources via post which required lots of printing in school and that required someone to go in and do these things and then to post them and this was happening on a weekly basis.

Don't worry though, it looks like next week, school staff are going to have to mix with hundreds of people from the groups with the biggest rate of COVID who couldn't care less if they passed COVID to school staff or not whilst being told that they cannot see a single member of their family in who took all the precautions because apparently that is unsafe.
[Post edited 31 Oct 2020 23:54]


For a start I believe schools and especially universities where youngsters get together for a party and shagging 3 years should be locked down , and that has contributed massively to the current figures , my point was there were teachers on here saying they have now got to go to work which increases their chance of contracting this virus , my point was in March when most of the country was sitting at home either on furlough or on 100% wages working from home there were still people having to go into work , the fact that teachers have to now why does it make them a special case
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:12 - Nov 1 with 1278 viewsDublinBlue84

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:56 - Oct 31 by pistonbroke

For a start I believe schools and especially universities where youngsters get together for a party and shagging 3 years should be locked down , and that has contributed massively to the current figures , my point was there were teachers on here saying they have now got to go to work which increases their chance of contracting this virus , my point was in March when most of the country was sitting at home either on furlough or on 100% wages working from home there were still people having to go into work , the fact that teachers have to now why does it make them a special case


The Government is saying that households should not mix together at all because it is unsafe and I 'm not even allowed to see my next door neighbour, but a school, where hundreds of households mix is apparently safe, despite the fact that schools happen to be the very place where you are most likely to find lots of people with COVID.

I understand what you are trying to say, but for the vast majority of people going to work in the first lockdown, were they going to work every day surrounded by hundreds of people that were by far more likely to have COVID-19 than any other group of people with little to no social distancing and little PPE like school staff will be expected to next week?

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:20 - Nov 1 with 1261 viewsEireannach_gorm

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 23:50 - Oct 31 by Nthsuffolkblue

Fair enough if you are pointing out we worked from home but what you actually said was teachers did not work. We worked jolly hard working from home doing the very best for our students we could I can assure you.


I think you are being a little precious with yourself. I am not sure anyone suggested that teachers were not working and maybe a little clarity has to be brought to the education sector situation. I can tell you from an Irish perspective that the risk of Covid-19 depends on the education level. My daughter is a Primary school teacher and there appears to be more risk from the parents congregating than from the pupils. Secondary level is a joke where the students wear masks and remove them once they get outside the school gate while linking arms. I work in the Third level sector where most lectures are done on line and huge resources have been thrown at providing technology to students. To me the only risky area is Secondary level which unfortunately covers the worst offending cohort of youngsters.
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:24 - Nov 1 with 1248 viewspistonbroke

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:12 - Nov 1 by DublinBlue84

The Government is saying that households should not mix together at all because it is unsafe and I 'm not even allowed to see my next door neighbour, but a school, where hundreds of households mix is apparently safe, despite the fact that schools happen to be the very place where you are most likely to find lots of people with COVID.

I understand what you are trying to say, but for the vast majority of people going to work in the first lockdown, were they going to work every day surrounded by hundreds of people that were by far more likely to have COVID-19 than any other group of people with little to no social distancing and little PPE like school staff will be expected to next week?


Fair comment but yes I think they were , for a start at the onset of the pandemic people who had to go to work there were no Covid safe practises implemented at the work place , most of the current legislation came in in June/ July when the lockdown was lifted , yes ill agree that where households mix its more likely to transmit this virus , but some of us have been under this since March . I can understand that teachers are worried about mixing , some of us have had to do it since March when most people were off either furloughed or working from home home
Some people are saying as schools have to stay open , which for the record I do not agree with , that teachers are more at risk , what I am saying is , there are a lot of us that have been like that since March not just now
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:26 - Nov 1 with 1245 viewsRyorry

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:12 - Nov 1 by DublinBlue84

The Government is saying that households should not mix together at all because it is unsafe and I 'm not even allowed to see my next door neighbour, but a school, where hundreds of households mix is apparently safe, despite the fact that schools happen to be the very place where you are most likely to find lots of people with COVID.

I understand what you are trying to say, but for the vast majority of people going to work in the first lockdown, were they going to work every day surrounded by hundreds of people that were by far more likely to have COVID-19 than any other group of people with little to no social distancing and little PPE like school staff will be expected to next week?


It's not just inside the school doors that the problems of having them open are either - a woman on 'Any Answers' yesterday referred to the parents milling around outside the school gates pre and post school, neither socially distanced nor masked. Slightly different issues there of compliance/enforcement I know, but nevertheless part of the problem with schools open.

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:30 - Nov 1 with 1239 viewspistonbroke

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:26 - Nov 1 by Ryorry

It's not just inside the school doors that the problems of having them open are either - a woman on 'Any Answers' yesterday referred to the parents milling around outside the school gates pre and post school, neither socially distanced nor masked. Slightly different issues there of compliance/enforcement I know, but nevertheless part of the problem with schools open.


Schools should not be open
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:38 - Nov 1 with 1228 viewsDublinBlue84

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:26 - Nov 1 by Ryorry

It's not just inside the school doors that the problems of having them open are either - a woman on 'Any Answers' yesterday referred to the parents milling around outside the school gates pre and post school, neither socially distanced nor masked. Slightly different issues there of compliance/enforcement I know, but nevertheless part of the problem with schools open.


Oh yes, certainly these things are a problem as well, especially for those schools catering for younger children where you would have more parents hanging around the gates as you said.

Secondary School/ College buses haven't been perfect either and there are some students who are using regular bus routes who literally are gathering at bus stops, sometimes with the general public with no social distancing from each other and not wearing masks, getting on the bus and then taking them off upstairs when they are out of view and the bus drivers don't want to kick them off the bus in case something happens to them and they are held liable and they've kind of been frowned upon on banning students from the bus because that will deny them an education.
[Post edited 1 Nov 2020 0:40]

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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 08:54 - Nov 1 with 979 viewsmikeybloo88

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 00:30 - Nov 1 by pistonbroke

Schools should not be open


At last you've said something vaguely sensible...
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 09:07 - Nov 1 with 956 viewsmikeybloo88

Universities are already virtually closed with most courses only receiving online learning... and secondary schools for sure should be closed. 2% of pupils are estimated to have the virus by ONS...that is 2000 per 100000, way worse than even the worst affected regions. The lockdown is pointless if we're still gong to send millions of teenagers and school staff into that environment and then let them loose afterwards to go into the local supermarkets, use public transport and worst of all, then go back indoors to their families. Teachers and school staff are being hung out to dry and I'll be surprised if the unions go along with this...if universities can go totally online to protect their staff, why can't schools?
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Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 09:38 - Nov 1 with 895 viewsb1079blue

Bearing in mind several teachers on TWTD expressing concerns re on 09:07 - Nov 1 by mikeybloo88

Universities are already virtually closed with most courses only receiving online learning... and secondary schools for sure should be closed. 2% of pupils are estimated to have the virus by ONS...that is 2000 per 100000, way worse than even the worst affected regions. The lockdown is pointless if we're still gong to send millions of teenagers and school staff into that environment and then let them loose afterwards to go into the local supermarkets, use public transport and worst of all, then go back indoors to their families. Teachers and school staff are being hung out to dry and I'll be surprised if the unions go along with this...if universities can go totally online to protect their staff, why can't schools?


Universities are a different case, pulling students in from cross the country was always going to be a problem.
I do have a problem with teachers saying they are all for schools opening as long as it is safe to do so. To me this is a cop out. Nowhere is 100% safe. I would be interested to see how many teachers who believe their schools are not safe are in the pub, gym or playing footie on a Saturday.
The biggest outbreaks in this region has been in the food processing industry where staff do not have a choice, do not have union representation and no work, no pay.

School should be open it teaches resilience, social skills and as a country we cannot say to two whole years groups go home, sit in front of your screen.
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