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As someone who will be claiming, what do you suggest my options are? If they offer 80% or nothing, what choice do I have?
I believe you said you've lost 60-80% of your income over the festive period, no? In that scenario, you are tailor-made for the scheme. I'm talking about borderline cases here really.
I believe you said you've lost 60-80% of your income over the festive period, no? In that scenario, you are tailor-made for the scheme. I'm talking about borderline cases here really.
Grants 3 and 4 is slightly different in that you now have to declare Reduced Demand rather than just that you have been affected. I'm assuming that is now in place as a way of HMRC getting chunks back through the tax returns.
Also worth noting there was no self employment support for September or October. I'm not saying its right, but some will say it's money due as they were still billing less.
At what point is it ok to take the 80% top up? If you've lost 30%, or 40%? Where is the line drawn.....
The system would be better if it was able to claim 'up to 80%' but it isn't that and people can only work with what is there
It's a moral/ethical question, clearly.
If you are 10% down on your income but you can still pay all your bills and lead a reasonable lifestyle, surely you have no right to claim such a substantial sum from what is essentially taxpayer money?
If COVID has obliterated your income to an extent that rent/mortgage/bills becomes impossible, that's what SEISS is tailored to surely?
To suggest someone could claim it just because a recession is looming to give yourself a nice fat buffer is alarming. Didn't have you down in the "I'm alright, Jack" demographic.
Texters robbing a couple of grand off the government ain't that much of a problem IMO, seeing as it's a drop in the ocean vs what those in charge and their donors have nicked off us. Although the moral thing would be arguably to give it back, I'd also debate he should chuck it straight at a charity and tell authority to stick it. Not the easiest route to take though, choose your battles and all that.
I'm currently debating sending a letter to Ipswich council requesting my council tax is wavered in line with the breaks Cummings has got on his £30k bill. Imagine if the whole country went on civil tax strike? I'm into it.
Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing Texters of anything!
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
At what point is it ok to take the 80% top up? If you've lost 30%, or 40%? Where is the line drawn.....
The system would be better if it was able to claim 'up to 80%' but it isn't that and people can only work with what is there
Also worth remembering that initially, the next grant was a proposed 20%, then upped to 40% and was only yesterday put up to 80%. As a self employed chap, I was down by about 25/30% during spring and summer, autumn was back to normal, winter months looking much quieter than previous ones so I’ll see how the land lies in December as to weather or not to claim again.
We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub.
If you are 10% down on your income but you can still pay all your bills and lead a reasonable lifestyle, surely you have no right to claim such a substantial sum from what is essentially taxpayer money?
If COVID has obliterated your income to an extent that rent/mortgage/bills becomes impossible, that's what SEISS is tailored to surely?
To suggest someone could claim it just because a recession is looming to give yourself a nice fat buffer is alarming. Didn't have you down in the "I'm alright, Jack" demographic.
To an extent, this support wasn't there during previous months when business was down, so people trying to fill the gaps in that as well - it's an extremely tough and worrying situation for many so wouldn't like to judge not being in their shoes as self employed people have little safety net generally and a number are not employed that way through choice as it is.
Any fraudulent claims should be investigated, and I mentioned previously that being so broad and one size fits all was the beauty of this scheme at the start, but will become the problem with it as things continue as people will abuse it.
The corona Jobs Bonus has been cancelled for now, that was never necessary and will be a massive saving for the Govt
Why should someone who loses 10% of their income be able to get an 80% top-up on their monthly income?! You're not coming across well here at all...
If you’re angry about Texters wait until you find out what the government and their mates nicked off the taxpayer this year. I’m sure you’ll defend that one to the very end and die on said hill though.
Just to be clear, I wasn't accusing Texters of anything!
Me either. Frankly anyone who sticks two fingers up at the government has my full support. They’re corrupt as they come so let’s allow those benefits to trickle down.
Sorry, that's ridiculous. Just because we might have to pay another 1-2% tax in the coming years doesn't excuse taking money from the Treasury unnecessarily that would be better spent elsewhere.
To an extent, this support wasn't there during previous months when business was down, so people trying to fill the gaps in that as well - it's an extremely tough and worrying situation for many so wouldn't like to judge not being in their shoes as self employed people have little safety net generally and a number are not employed that way through choice as it is.
Any fraudulent claims should be investigated, and I mentioned previously that being so broad and one size fits all was the beauty of this scheme at the start, but will become the problem with it as things continue as people will abuse it.
The corona Jobs Bonus has been cancelled for now, that was never necessary and will be a massive saving for the Govt
"The corona Jobs Bonus has been cancelled for now, that was never necessary and will be a massive saving for the Govt"
The Job Retention Bonus was the one bright light that we had to give us a chance to survive through to the Spring. It would have given us a chance to recuperate some of the losses incurred since March. Now that has been taken away, it will be a close call as to whether we will have to make more cuts (redundancies) or possibly cease trading.
In 25 years of trading, we have always made a profit and never made anyone redundant. Last years profit has been kept in the company to support it through the difficult times since March and this has now all gone. With trade 40% down on last year and being forced to be closed for 19 out of the 37 weeks between the start of the first lockdown and Boris's promised end date of 2 December, we need all the help we can get.
But in the first example posted his friend was working as much or more than before and that is against the rules of the scheme if you are planning to claim and thus is fraud.
From the Gov website:
declare that they intend to continue to trade and either:
are currently actively trading but are impacted by reduced demand due to coronavirus were previously trading but are temporarily unable to do so due to coronavirus
He doesn't meet either of those criteria so he is committing fraud against the taxpayer which isn't OK. If someone is not trading at pre-C19 levels due to the restrictions they should of course use the scheme.
It annoys me that people are trying to game the system at this time of all times.
SB
[Post edited 6 Nov 2020 12:26]
A lot of people will be caught out on this, certainly self employed on a CIS ticket which is where the company paying you takes 20% tax off your wages and sends it to HMCR. I would be very surprised - perhaps not with this government - that there is not an algorithm built that does not assess the amount you've earned this tax year and compares it with last years earnings to see if you've been drastically impacted or not thereby highlighting if you should have had the payment or not.
The first payout was pretty much along the lines of ' you are legible to claim the grant , click here to accept' , there was no option to input the amount you were impacted. The second payout was more clearly defined with circumstances outlined under which people could claim. Do I know people who claimed when they were working, yes, and it doesn't sit easy with me at all. I claimed the first lot as I was affected but in all honesty not as much as I thought I would be so didn't claim the second round. I won't the third round either but today I laid off three workers and next week it will be a couple more. My boss came round today and told some of us that he would be looking after us, at least up to the end of January, but the contracts lined up for now and next year have been shelved so basically we'll be scraping about. At the minute I'm fine but next year ? I'm not condoning fraud but, so on that basis do you take the money now, because there's an awful lot of uncertainty out there, and if the government asks later you pay it back and rightly or wrongly that's in peoples heads because when you're self employed you normally get zip.
A lot of people will be caught out on this, certainly self employed on a CIS ticket which is where the company paying you takes 20% tax off your wages and sends it to HMCR. I would be very surprised - perhaps not with this government - that there is not an algorithm built that does not assess the amount you've earned this tax year and compares it with last years earnings to see if you've been drastically impacted or not thereby highlighting if you should have had the payment or not.
The first payout was pretty much along the lines of ' you are legible to claim the grant , click here to accept' , there was no option to input the amount you were impacted. The second payout was more clearly defined with circumstances outlined under which people could claim. Do I know people who claimed when they were working, yes, and it doesn't sit easy with me at all. I claimed the first lot as I was affected but in all honesty not as much as I thought I would be so didn't claim the second round. I won't the third round either but today I laid off three workers and next week it will be a couple more. My boss came round today and told some of us that he would be looking after us, at least up to the end of January, but the contracts lined up for now and next year have been shelved so basically we'll be scraping about. At the minute I'm fine but next year ? I'm not condoning fraud but, so on that basis do you take the money now, because there's an awful lot of uncertainty out there, and if the government asks later you pay it back and rightly or wrongly that's in peoples heads because when you're self employed you normally get zip.
So technically you've answered your own question:
"My boss came round today and told some of us that he would be looking after us, at least up to the end of January"
So you won't have your work impacted by C19 so that would mean you're not supposed to claim the grant. I fully understand the rest of your paragraph around uncertainty though and whilst it would technically be fraud to claim it I expect there will be many doing so knowing they might not have any earnings come next year and I don't blame them at all. In the end everyone needs to be as comfortable as they can be in order to support themselves and their families.
I guess the counterpoint is that someone who is employed now and in the same situation as you and not affected doesn't have the option to take extra money now as they might be laid off in January.
It's a pretty awful time for everyone. I'm not sure the scheme is that well thought out by the treasury.
"The corona Jobs Bonus has been cancelled for now, that was never necessary and will be a massive saving for the Govt"
The Job Retention Bonus was the one bright light that we had to give us a chance to survive through to the Spring. It would have given us a chance to recuperate some of the losses incurred since March. Now that has been taken away, it will be a close call as to whether we will have to make more cuts (redundancies) or possibly cease trading.
In 25 years of trading, we have always made a profit and never made anyone redundant. Last years profit has been kept in the company to support it through the difficult times since March and this has now all gone. With trade 40% down on last year and being forced to be closed for 19 out of the 37 weeks between the start of the first lockdown and Boris's promised end date of 2 December, we need all the help we can get.
Again, I should have been more careful on this - with regards to the types of businesses effected.
By the time it was announced, we had unfurloughed everyone, as had most companies locally in my industry - there was no need for it for us, it in no way effected out decisions to retain staff and sure lots the same.
Obviously not the case for those firms and industries really hurting from this.
Again, I should have been more careful on this - with regards to the types of businesses effected.
By the time it was announced, we had unfurloughed everyone, as had most companies locally in my industry - there was no need for it for us, it in no way effected out decisions to retain staff and sure lots the same.
Obviously not the case for those firms and industries really hurting from this.
Fair do's.
I think that is one of the biggest issues.......numerous industries are being dealt with the same, whereas some sectors have been hit way harder than others.
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